Gear snobs?
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Drumolator
Platinum Member
I am interested in ALL of a band's gear, but as others above have said, sound and reliability are the important issues, and I suppose appearance matters too. I like it when inexpensive stuff sounds good. So, no, I am not gear snob. Peace and goodwill.
wsabol
Gold Member
I love to talk about gear and I tend to really appreciate high end and/or very nostalgic vintage gear. But that bears no weight with me when it comes to that person's playing. Whether its fender or first act, if you can play, you can play. Period, end of story.
I'm a gear snob for the gear's sake, not for the music's.
I'm a gear snob for the gear's sake, not for the music's.
Souljacker
Silver Member
I can't understand the occasional snobbery towards Squier. Their stuff has been very good for quite some time now and if played through a great bass amp as the OP mentions will sound very good.
I don't look at them as Fenders budget range anymore, now some of their stuff is better than some of he Mexican Fender guitars.
I don't look at them as Fenders budget range anymore, now some of their stuff is better than some of he Mexican Fender guitars.
StickIt
Senior Member
Just to echo what some others have said, there are flags that go up when guys show up with certain pieces of gear. Super-showy rigs are sometimes a cover for someone who's not really a good player; neglected equipment (I don't mind cool frankenstein gear!) often relays the message that the player doesn't take to much pride in themselves...not good; guys who show up with a missing string and no extras (drives me nuts!!!) etc...
I would never talk down to someone about their gear as long as they have a good attitude and don't let problems linger (i.e. clean that dirty input jack!).
I have an LTD bass with great action and intonation, but nowhere near the quality/sound of a J/P-Bass or a Rick (Had a fretless '75 Rick....oh, to turn back time), and an early 90's Peavey TNT combo amp which is so-so, but will get the job done a lot of the time. I also have an off-brand acoustic-electric, and a Fender Japanese Strat which I'm currently loaning out. None of them are exceptional pieces of gear, but they do get the job done, and don't sound half bad in the mix.
It's definitely the player and their attitude that makes the difference in the end.
I would never talk down to someone about their gear as long as they have a good attitude and don't let problems linger (i.e. clean that dirty input jack!).
I have an LTD bass with great action and intonation, but nowhere near the quality/sound of a J/P-Bass or a Rick (Had a fretless '75 Rick....oh, to turn back time), and an early 90's Peavey TNT combo amp which is so-so, but will get the job done a lot of the time. I also have an off-brand acoustic-electric, and a Fender Japanese Strat which I'm currently loaning out. None of them are exceptional pieces of gear, but they do get the job done, and don't sound half bad in the mix.
It's definitely the player and their attitude that makes the difference in the end.
Maybe you're right there but I would rather buy a Squier and 'fix' it than buy a MIM that still needs work. For the same money (essentially) I get to choose those components like the pots, bridge, nut and pickup. Now there's nothing usually wrong with the 'stock' in a MIM bass but it's not necessarily what I would put in there myself. As long as the body and neck are soundly put together then I would rather choose the rest of the hardware myself. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and I do all my own work. Granted, if you're paying somebody else to do the work it gets expensive quickly.
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RockNGrohl
Senior Member
My only beef with gear is if a band member has gear that needs to be fixed or is beat to heck in an abusive way. You guys have all mentioned this. If a guy is auditioning or jamming and his guitar or bass is trashed and he has a D.G.A.F. attitude he's out! Especially if it was nice once and he let it get wrecked for no good reason. Impressions matter and if he can't care about his gear would he care about the music, being on time, etc..
But I've also seen guys with super high end stuff be overly snobby about it. They're not gear snobs, just snobs. And one guy was mediocre at best! He had only the most basic of skills and a $6000 PRS guitar! He truly felt the because he had a lucrative job and this fancy guitar he was better than us working joes with gig ready gear. Who plays out with a $6000 guitar anyways?
I did almost act snobby once myself though. Almost... I was auditioning for band who needed a new drummer. Their drummer was switching colleges and would be leaving the state and they needed a fill in drummer fast. I went down to their basement rehearsal space and they had a kit for me to play on. They didn't tell me it was crap. It was an old old CB kit that was more than used and abused. The hardware was thin and light with all the screws stripped. Nothing stayed in place at all. The head were all dented. The cymbals were cheap brass and been colored on with markers and had flowers drawn all over them. Flowers?!? Hmmm.... The bass drum had a ring of Christmas tree tinsel around it. Timsel? hmmm, again.. The one who owned them didn't want me re-tune them and "mess them all up".. heh.. But he finally let me and was all stoked with how they sounded afterwards. All I did was tighten up the loose heads a bit to et a fairly decent sound. I played my best on them and got the gig but was dying to ask what the heck was up with his bad gear! I didn't and a week later their old drummer decided to return home and back to his old college, so they took him right back. He didn't seem to mind playing the crap drums at all! He bashed right on them and never tweaked anything! Even the loose wing nut holding up the top half of the high hat stand! The high hats kept getting lower.. and lower.. haha.. jeez.. That was only time I almost had to speak up.
But I've also seen guys with super high end stuff be overly snobby about it. They're not gear snobs, just snobs. And one guy was mediocre at best! He had only the most basic of skills and a $6000 PRS guitar! He truly felt the because he had a lucrative job and this fancy guitar he was better than us working joes with gig ready gear. Who plays out with a $6000 guitar anyways?
I did almost act snobby once myself though. Almost... I was auditioning for band who needed a new drummer. Their drummer was switching colleges and would be leaving the state and they needed a fill in drummer fast. I went down to their basement rehearsal space and they had a kit for me to play on. They didn't tell me it was crap. It was an old old CB kit that was more than used and abused. The hardware was thin and light with all the screws stripped. Nothing stayed in place at all. The head were all dented. The cymbals were cheap brass and been colored on with markers and had flowers drawn all over them. Flowers?!? Hmmm.... The bass drum had a ring of Christmas tree tinsel around it. Timsel? hmmm, again.. The one who owned them didn't want me re-tune them and "mess them all up".. heh.. But he finally let me and was all stoked with how they sounded afterwards. All I did was tighten up the loose heads a bit to et a fairly decent sound. I played my best on them and got the gig but was dying to ask what the heck was up with his bad gear! I didn't and a week later their old drummer decided to return home and back to his old college, so they took him right back. He didn't seem to mind playing the crap drums at all! He bashed right on them and never tweaked anything! Even the loose wing nut holding up the top half of the high hat stand! The high hats kept getting lower.. and lower.. haha.. jeez.. That was only time I almost had to speak up.
skod
Senior Member
I've been on the receiving end a couple of times: one bunch refused to play with me when I brought my heavily customized E-kit. No surprise there, of course- comes with the E-kit territory. But more bizarrely, one didn't want me to play my Chapman Stick when I showed up for a simple jam ("That's not a bass: we need a bass player!"). Not a problem: I have other things I can be doing. Life's too short to screw with it. I have weird gear, and it is a point of pride...
LOL even this guy?
Especially that guy.
Dr_Watso
Platinum Member
I don't care what it looks like, or what brand it says on it. If it sounds good, it sounds good. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I played my first "gig" on a sunlite that had literally been jumped into so many times that it was falling apart, and the majority of the cymbals had cracks. Nobody f-n cared. I hit the right things at the right time, with the right intensity and feel for the tunes.
Idiots who spend more time worrying about gear than actually playing can be picked out with almost no trouble at all. I've heard complete garbage playing on 8k DWs, and amazing playing on trash cans and buckets on the street.
Idiots who spend more time worrying about gear than actually playing can be picked out with almost no trouble at all. I've heard complete garbage playing on 8k DWs, and amazing playing on trash cans and buckets on the street.
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Member
LOL! I pitched you that one as an underhanded softball, and you park'ed it
He shoots, he scores! 1-0 to the Innnggeerrrllaaanndd!
Stalwart_Pandora-Chris
Silver Member
To be honest, I don't really care much about gear in general. If it's good quality, it's a keeper!
I know loads of people who are like "Yeah, I've got a DW" or "I've got 4 kits in my house, I've got 2 Sonors, a DW and a Craviotto" or whatever and I'm like "I've got two Mapex Meridian Maples" and people are like "Mapex? Aren't those terrible drums?" And I really beg to differ. I love my kit, and I think it sounds AND looks great. I've got a mix of cymbals, mainly Sabian HHX's and Zildjian A's, but only because I really like the sound of them.
If it sounds good, that's the main thing.
When it comes to other band members gear though, I don't care either. My guitarist has a Squier Deluxe Strat and it sounds amazing, as well as looking it too. He has one pedal, which is an amp preset thing, and that's about it. He gets a really huge sound, it's great!
Our bassist though, is poor and spends more money on -you know what- than her gear or herself. (I don't do you know what, neither does my guitarist). But she gets a good sound, sometimes having to borrow my bass though.
I've played with quite a few gear snobs though, and they weren't good players.
I know loads of people who are like "Yeah, I've got a DW" or "I've got 4 kits in my house, I've got 2 Sonors, a DW and a Craviotto" or whatever and I'm like "I've got two Mapex Meridian Maples" and people are like "Mapex? Aren't those terrible drums?" And I really beg to differ. I love my kit, and I think it sounds AND looks great. I've got a mix of cymbals, mainly Sabian HHX's and Zildjian A's, but only because I really like the sound of them.
If it sounds good, that's the main thing.
When it comes to other band members gear though, I don't care either. My guitarist has a Squier Deluxe Strat and it sounds amazing, as well as looking it too. He has one pedal, which is an amp preset thing, and that's about it. He gets a really huge sound, it's great!
Our bassist though, is poor and spends more money on -you know what- than her gear or herself. (I don't do you know what, neither does my guitarist). But she gets a good sound, sometimes having to borrow my bass though.
I've played with quite a few gear snobs though, and they weren't good players.
B-squared
Silver Member
I do have one b**ch. That is upright basses. I really don't care what the bass looks like (upright or bass guitar), but I want to hear it. I want to hear it well. It's really hard to keep a good rhythm section together when you can't hear bass notes.
I suspect that the make/model and price have a lot to do with hearing the upright bass. More so than with pick-ups and amplification. I knew a bass player who spent 3 grand on a stand up with some fancy pick-up and a big rig. You couldn't hear it. I'm not deaf, nor was that the only instance in which I've run into that problem. The bass player in my current band is always trying an upright bass, and even he ends up giving it up after 20 to 30 minutes of wasting time screwing around with it. I've heard good ones at some jazz venues, but I got the feeling that those cost huge bucks. Has anybody else experienced this?
I suspect that the make/model and price have a lot to do with hearing the upright bass. More so than with pick-ups and amplification. I knew a bass player who spent 3 grand on a stand up with some fancy pick-up and a big rig. You couldn't hear it. I'm not deaf, nor was that the only instance in which I've run into that problem. The bass player in my current band is always trying an upright bass, and even he ends up giving it up after 20 to 30 minutes of wasting time screwing around with it. I've heard good ones at some jazz venues, but I got the feeling that those cost huge bucks. Has anybody else experienced this?
Upright basses are a World unto themselves. I've tried playing them but they are hard.
What makes them project more is a slightly higher action. That also has the effect of making them harder to play. The pickups can be very good but they're usually in direct contact with the body and with the body being very resonant, feedback is often a big issue. You also have to bear in mind that double basses are designed for use with flatwound strings and these are relatively mellow-sounding. So you have three problems.
Unless you're using a microphone and have a good sound engineer, a double bass is going to be hard to incorporate. In my experience, electric upright basses are the best solution in an amplified context - they also have the advantage of usually having the same scale length as a standard bass guitar so they're a bit easier for a novice to play (although still difficult). Lacking a body also makes them less susceptible to feedback.
I've had a go on this model:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/stagg_edb_34_mbk.htm
And was reasonably impressed. There's no real middle ground with electric uprights - they're either inexpensive or very expensive. It's still not as easy as an electric bass guitar but it's easier than a full-sized upright with about 90% of the sound of an authentic upright.
The 'other' solution is more left-field. Ashbory (owned by Fender) make a bass with silicone strings. They have a very short scale length and use piezo pickups under the saddles. They sound quite authentic and they're relatively easy to play - although the fret markings aren't accurate. I borrowed one for a few days when I was nineteen or twenty and found it awkward but with practice it would be do-able. They also have the advantage of being inexpensive:
http://www.ashborybass.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD-zl2MXz6o
What makes them project more is a slightly higher action. That also has the effect of making them harder to play. The pickups can be very good but they're usually in direct contact with the body and with the body being very resonant, feedback is often a big issue. You also have to bear in mind that double basses are designed for use with flatwound strings and these are relatively mellow-sounding. So you have three problems.
Unless you're using a microphone and have a good sound engineer, a double bass is going to be hard to incorporate. In my experience, electric upright basses are the best solution in an amplified context - they also have the advantage of usually having the same scale length as a standard bass guitar so they're a bit easier for a novice to play (although still difficult). Lacking a body also makes them less susceptible to feedback.
I've had a go on this model:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/stagg_edb_34_mbk.htm
And was reasonably impressed. There's no real middle ground with electric uprights - they're either inexpensive or very expensive. It's still not as easy as an electric bass guitar but it's easier than a full-sized upright with about 90% of the sound of an authentic upright.
The 'other' solution is more left-field. Ashbory (owned by Fender) make a bass with silicone strings. They have a very short scale length and use piezo pickups under the saddles. They sound quite authentic and they're relatively easy to play - although the fret markings aren't accurate. I borrowed one for a few days when I was nineteen or twenty and found it awkward but with practice it would be do-able. They also have the advantage of being inexpensive:
http://www.ashborybass.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD-zl2MXz6o
B-squared
Silver Member
Thanks for the reply, BFY. I loved that bass line on the link; I wish they all sounded that way. At least it is good to know that I'm not imagining the problem. In the spirit of the thread, I'm not sure if that makes me a "Gear Snob" or not. What I have noticed, is that with some bass players, upright basses are regarded as kind of a status symbol or they are perceived as being "cool". I just never heard too many that warranted that kind of respect and admiration. On the contrary, most of the ones I've had to put up with have been nothing but a PITA.
Your explanation of the projection, amplification, and feedback issues accounts for a lot of what I have experienced. I think I will try to memorize an abbreviated version of your post and explain to my bass player why he should consider sticking with his bass guitar, or trying an electric upright. I hope it works.
Your explanation of the projection, amplification, and feedback issues accounts for a lot of what I have experienced. I think I will try to memorize an abbreviated version of your post and explain to my bass player why he should consider sticking with his bass guitar, or trying an electric upright. I hope it works.
There's definitely a place for upright basses but sometimes you have to compromise - especially if you don't have the specific expertise required to make them work in a live context. That's by no means a criticism - I've met plenty of sound engineers that struggle with them and I wouldn't want to use one unless it was necessary. Most of the time I've found that using a normal electric bass with flatwounds and/or with the tone control rolled back gets you most of the way there.
A few years ago I had to play as part of an acoustic Jazz quartet for a recital. The lead was flute, with piano, bass and drums. The bass player ended up just sticking with his Tokai SG copy - partly because it was easier to play and partly because it was a lot of work making any kind of upright work. Electric uprights are great but they do require a lot of practice. The other option is a fretless bass, which sound great but also require practice to play and are usually associated with a particular sound - back in the 80s players tended to use a lot of chorus and I still think there's a bit of a hangup there for some people. For the record, I love fretless bass and there are definitely things that you can do with a fretless that you can't do with a fretted bass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAgd9Ijw6WI
You can really go mad with the vibrato and slides!
There's definitely a visual reason to want an upright. They look great in the right context and if you can play them well and make them work then there's no reason (other than expense) to use one but the two prerequisites alone make them quite rare. Thinking back, I can only remember one gig (a psychobilly band) that made the upright work well and even then there were problems with the pickup.
Also, if your bass player does consider an Asbory, I have three bits of advice. First, talc your hands before you play - may sound odd but the strings stick. The manufacturers actually recommend this. Secondly, make sure that you have several 'G' strings available. Buying them in two metre or six foot lengths is advised (you just cut it and knot it at the bridge). The Ashbory has a tendency to snap the 'G' and I've experienced this - it's a pain. Thirdly, let him know that the fret markings aren't very accurate. They give you a rough idea but unlike a normal fretless (where you can just use your eyes and fine-tune with ears) you have to really listen to make sure you're in tune. They're quirky instruments and he'll need practice to be able to play it. It's not just a case of buying it and coming straight to rehearsal - especially if you play anything around the 12th fret or higher. Finding the 12th fret natural harmonic might give him a better chance of knowing where the octave is - might even be worth marking it with a bit of tape on the fingerboard.
A few years ago I had to play as part of an acoustic Jazz quartet for a recital. The lead was flute, with piano, bass and drums. The bass player ended up just sticking with his Tokai SG copy - partly because it was easier to play and partly because it was a lot of work making any kind of upright work. Electric uprights are great but they do require a lot of practice. The other option is a fretless bass, which sound great but also require practice to play and are usually associated with a particular sound - back in the 80s players tended to use a lot of chorus and I still think there's a bit of a hangup there for some people. For the record, I love fretless bass and there are definitely things that you can do with a fretless that you can't do with a fretted bass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAgd9Ijw6WI
You can really go mad with the vibrato and slides!
There's definitely a visual reason to want an upright. They look great in the right context and if you can play them well and make them work then there's no reason (other than expense) to use one but the two prerequisites alone make them quite rare. Thinking back, I can only remember one gig (a psychobilly band) that made the upright work well and even then there were problems with the pickup.
Also, if your bass player does consider an Asbory, I have three bits of advice. First, talc your hands before you play - may sound odd but the strings stick. The manufacturers actually recommend this. Secondly, make sure that you have several 'G' strings available. Buying them in two metre or six foot lengths is advised (you just cut it and knot it at the bridge). The Ashbory has a tendency to snap the 'G' and I've experienced this - it's a pain. Thirdly, let him know that the fret markings aren't very accurate. They give you a rough idea but unlike a normal fretless (where you can just use your eyes and fine-tune with ears) you have to really listen to make sure you're in tune. They're quirky instruments and he'll need practice to be able to play it. It's not just a case of buying it and coming straight to rehearsal - especially if you play anything around the 12th fret or higher. Finding the 12th fret natural harmonic might give him a better chance of knowing where the octave is - might even be worth marking it with a bit of tape on the fingerboard.
B-squared
Silver Member
I just passed the Ashbory site on via email to my bass player. It is a cool looking unit, but I'm sure those are a little less user friendly than a P-bass.
I remember when The Stray Cats were doing the full blown rock-a-billy style, their upright had a presence. Recording studios help some I'm sure, but I am equally sure that your description of the difficulty involved with getting the sound right is something they had to cope with when they cut those records.
I remember when The Stray Cats were doing the full blown rock-a-billy style, their upright had a presence. Recording studios help some I'm sure, but I am equally sure that your description of the difficulty involved with getting the sound right is something they had to cope with when they cut those records.