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  #41  
Old 10-09-2015, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Wow. That ringing endorsement should be worth at least a free unit. Better free ads couldn't be had.
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  #42  
Old 10-09-2015, 05:09 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Wow thanks for those very kind comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
I got to experience a RESOTUNE II this last week, hands on tuned a couple kits. What I believe is not immediately understood about the RESOTUNE is that its a computerized tone generator, its actually much more than that, but if you can imagine a device that generates tones and reads the feedback it gets when these tones are applied to a drum, a drum with heads of course (as that's how you play your acoustic drums), you might more easily understand how this devise does what it does. Its not you the tuner tapping the head generating the tones, its the units microprocessor executing perfection each and every time, so the results are of a level of consistency not humanly obtainable with just a drum key and your ears.


"RESOTUNE literally measures the clear quality of the entire system working together as it does when played, so ignores or factors in, sundry mechanical errors."

Is what John says and that 'is' what RESOTUNE does, it analyzes the drum as complete drum, and it does so with tones it generates and analyzes the info in a microprocessor. The results are displayed by LED's and the whole effect and end sonic result is quite amazing I must say.


Do I need a devise to tune my drums? No, I can tune drums really well actually, but what I realized after using RESOTUNE is that it accomplishes exactly what Im trying to do in a short amount of time. What RESOTUNE also made me realize is, I could spend 8 hrs, 8 days, or even 8 weeks tuning a drum kit and I would't be able to tune as accurately as RESOTUNE, the human ear is just too subjective and influenced by too many outside variables all the time (your perception of sound/accuracy of tones can change if you drink a glass of water). So yeah, I'll never be a good as RESOTUNE at tuning drums, again, it does what Im trying to do and it can do it a lot quicker.


The above didn't really come as a surprise, I assumed I'd hear something I haven't heard out of a drum kit before, the purest note form and cleanest fundamental I've ever heard. Could I have gotten this with just my ears and a drum key? Gotten close, but not nailed it like RESOTUNE. The difference between close and nailing it? Let's just say the sound is noticeable, noticeably better, as in you've never heard it 'this good' before.


Let's get back to "...so ignores, or factors in, sundry mechanical errors." which is a big part of the beauty of RESOTUNE IMO. It doesn't care what heads you have on, what combination of heads, if there's nylon washers, a few different tension rods, it sonically analyzes the drum 'as it is' and provides you with a solution to 'clear' the lug notes. You do this by turning a drum key and RESOTUNE guides you both sonically (you can hear the target note audibly when its achieved), and with LED confirmation like a guitar tuner display.



The whole RESOTUNE tuning process is actually pretty easy once you understand what's going on, the most time consuming part of the process is repositioning the unit over each lug to tune them to 'clear', but the more you do this the easier it becomes. I found myself going around twice which is totally understandable. Those 'sundry mechanical errors' that exist in every drum are computed and recomputed by RESOTUNE with each turn of the drum key, and you reach a state of lug-clear with the unit accurately confirming the results, something ones ears simply can't do to the same degree. Those 'results' are in the realm of- "Holy crap this drum sounds in tune like I've never heard before!" and "Im excited to play now!" along with "That wasn't hard, it was fun." Do it once an you're addicted, addicted because the resulting sound is so good.
The requirement to go around the head twice while clearing the lugs is an improvement I made over a year ago (in the software). I noticed while clearing the lugs I could sometimes get a stronger resonance different than the captured clear quality reference. I altered the software to track the level of the resonance coming back while adjusting lugs for clear and if the return is stronger make that the new clear quality reference. So first pass around captures the strongest clear quality reference, then the second pass around makes all the lugs agree with that.

Note: RESOTUNE II owners with earlier software can get their software updated for a modest fee by returning it to us. You can tell your revision level by the LEDs lit at start-up. Rev F the current software version is indicated by the Green +75 cents LED being lit.
Quote:

$175 for a drum tuning devise? There's simply nothing out there that can get your drums this in-tune, the scope of which you can't comprehend until you actually hear the results, or so it was with me and I've been doing this since the 60's.


Do you need your drums in tune to notes? Your drums are tuned to notes, the fact of the matter is they're not tuned to notes as accurately as RESOTUNE can help you get them. Its like once you take a shower, you want to be clean. You control your drum sound destiny with RESOTUNE, no more walks in the dark when tuning, its like night and day, you can see where you're going, and you can now get there quick. After my experience with it, I can't imagine not having a RESOTUNE, it allows you to produce that sound you've always wanted to hear.





I could see myself saying that... almost anyway. You 'can' learn and I did, but I can attest I'll never be a able to zero it in like RESOTUNE, its just not humanly possible to be that accurate, and if you did ever become 'lucky' on one head of one drum, you'll never be able to do it as fast as you can with the help of RESOTUNE. The results speak for themselves, until you hear those results you simply can't comprehend a drum (kit- yes even the BD) this 'in tune' is my conclusion.



I agree there needs to be better, more detailed vids on the RESOTUNE and its how too's. The fact we have John Roberts the inventor posting on this thread is fantastic! The RESOTUNE for all intensive purposes in the drumming community is simply genius. Im a convert.
I've tried to shoot videos myself but frankly I suck at that. On my list of things to do.

I would love to get your permission to put your comments up on my website with a picture of you or your drum kit too.

Thanks again.

John Roberts
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  #43  
Old 10-09-2015, 11:06 PM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Wow. That ringing endorsement should be worth at least a free unit. Better free ads couldn't be had.

I actually own the unit now.

$175? Well, I can officially certify that RESOTUNE II is The holy grail of drum tuners. This is an absolutely 'essential' piece of gear for me now, and that being the case, I can easily justify the $175 price as a bargain, no problemo. RTII is using sound, its producing the desired end result, its imposing that sound on the drum, its reading how the drum reacts to that sound then it gives you visual feedback on how to mechanically bring said drum into tune with that generated end result. Its simply brilliant.




Quote:
The requirement to go around the head twice while clearing the lugs is an improvement I made over a year ago (in the software). I noticed while clearing the lugs I could sometimes get a stronger resonance different than the captured clear quality reference. I altered the software to track the level of the resonance coming back while adjusting lugs for clear and if the return is stronger make that the new clear quality reference. So first pass around captures the strongest clear quality reference, then the second pass around makes all the lugs agree with that.


I expected to go around twice anyway, just to check the work and before doing so I also expected there to be readjustments needed. Its perfectly normal to assume some changes as you go around the whole drum tweaking the lugs, its obvious there's going to be an effect across the pond so to speak. Once I did get around the second time and all was clear and in the green, there's that feeling of 'this is it', the feeling of accomplishment you actually got the head/drum in tune, scientifically measured in-tune, you then tap the head and go "OMFG, where have you been all my life RESOTUNE II !?"


As RTII gains popularity as an essential tuning tool, videos will start to appear more and more on the web. The 'holy grail of drum tuning' will not be hidden.




Quote:
It seems like a cool tool, but I think it has one small flaw. You don't always get the best sound with every lug at the same pitch. Sometimes I need an "out of tune" lug or two, to get the sound I want. I think it was Buddy Rich, who fired one of his drum techs because he "removed the wrinkle" in his bass drum head. Just sayin'...

Here's a touch on what we 'think' we know about drum tuning, specifically- 'accurate' note tuning, and I'll use myself as an example. We know that we want, or let's say I think I want even tension on the rods/lugs to get to my perfect tuning, a strong emphasis is put on the mechanical feel of the tension rods and this needs be because that's what tensions/tunes the drum, but what RESOTUNE has shown me is that its 'not' all rods on deck, front and center, even tension. The emphasis has to be on sound, the sonic results of the tensioning, as human tuners I believe we (I know I was conditioned to) put a little bit too much emphasis on mechanics of lug turning, and this is mainly because we don't have a consistent sonic reference. RTII imposes an accurate sonic reference onto the drum systematically every time. The even tension gets the ship to port, but its RESOTUNE that gets the ship moored at the dock flawlessly every time.




I'll use a couple analogies here. You know a person who mixes paint at Home Depot, he starts with white paint as a base. You show him a color sample from your wall, he looks at it and says "I can match that." he's been doing this for years, he's the best at it. The master mixers end product looks great, you're pleased and you take the paint home and throw it up on your wall, it dries and you notice its not a a perfect match, its obviously different. Now imagine Home Depot takes delivery of a new machine that spectrally analyses the paint sample you bring in, the operator reads the numbers and mixes you some paint to match, you take it home and throw it on your wall, it dries and you say "Damn that's perfect!" You are the person tuning drums with all your experience and RESOTUNE II is the machine that gets it right each time.


You are working on an old skool V8 engine, you're an experienced mechanic, been doing this stuff since you were a kid. The timing is off, it needs adjusting and you're good enough to twist the distributor to get the engine to smooth out, but you'll never get it as accurate as you can with a timing light. You are the person tuning your drums with all your experience, RESOTUNE II is the timing light, it gets it TDC, or any desired variable 'right on'. The difference is noticeable. Now lets factor in those aforementioned 'sundry mechanical errors', mechanic may not be aware of a fact like one of his spark plug wires isn't 100%, or the condenser might not be 100%. If paint master starts with a base shade of white that he's not familiar with, its back to the learning stage again.


Crypto mechanical errors are present 'to some degree' in every situation, its called life in the material world, there's just no way around it. Consider now that RESOTUNE II ignores (actually works with) these ever present mechanical errors and you can better understand RTII's holy grail status.
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  #44  
Old 10-10-2015, 03:57 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

I think he likes it... :-)

Still hasn't responded to my request for permission to repeat his comments. (please send a picture too).

Our goal was not to make some "holy grail" just a reliable tool to help clear drums, and precisely return to a previous voicing.

Subjective human judgement is still involved it deciding what pitches/tensions to voice your kit at. Let the machines do what they do well, and use your human skills for the rest.

John Roberts
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  #45  
Old 10-10-2015, 05:31 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_roberts View Post
I think he likes it... :-)

Still hasn't responded to my request for permission to repeat his comments. (please send a picture too).
She's a chick, dude.

It's an excellent review and I'm leaning towards buying one in the future.
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  #46  
Old 10-10-2015, 06:06 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Wally Young View Post
She's a chick, dude.

It's an excellent review and I'm leaning towards buying one in the future.
Even better :-)

John Roberts
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2015, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

piqued my interest....purchased one today.


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  #48  
Old 10-18-2015, 12:45 AM
Mcdonap Mcdonap is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

I've been interested in one of these since the Drum! review from last year. That and this thread pushed me to order one and it should be here Monday.

I feel pretty confident about my tuning abilities. That is, my teacher way back when I was a kid taught me how to tune. When I started playing again a couple of years ago, I decided to pick up a DrumDial, and I really love it. I feel like it speeds the whole process up.

I expect a learning curve, but I'm really looking forward to dialing in even more precise tuning with the Resotune II. I'll post an update once i use it a bit.
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  #49  
Old 10-19-2015, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdonap View Post
I've been interested in one of these since the Drum! review from last year. That and this thread pushed me to order one and it should be here Monday.

I feel pretty confident about my tuning abilities. That is, my teacher way back when I was a kid taught me how to tune. When I started playing again a couple of years ago, I decided to pick up a DrumDial, and I really love it. I feel like it speeds the whole process up.

I expect a learning curve, but I'm really looking forward to dialing in even more precise tuning with the Resotune II. I'll post an update once i use it a bit.


The lug clearing option puts RESOTUNE II over the top. Its not difficult to tun a drum to a note, clearing the lugs to that note is difficult, RESOTUNE II makes it a breeze.

What's the advantage? 'Cleared' the head is in tune with the desired fundamental note, result is clarity. There's still extraneous noise, but its mucho limited, gated really, its gone immediately... it adds cut, but its not prevalent like you would get residually with ear and lesser devises (like torque and TUNEBOT type tuners).

RESOTUNE II is all about accuracy, and that accuracy produces a clean sound.

Expect a learning curve for sure. Anyone not using a RESOTUNE is in the dark ages with their drum tuning. Once spoiled, you'll hear other kits now in a different light, you'll see others tuning methods and missing the point, incomplete, RESOTUNE II give you that power.
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  #50  
Old 10-20-2015, 05:30 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
The lug clearing option puts RESOTUNE II over the top. Its not difficult to tun a drum to a note, clearing the lugs to that note is difficult, RESOTUNE II makes it a breeze.

What's the advantage? 'Cleared' the head is in tune with the desired fundamental note, result is clarity. There's still extraneous noise, but its mucho limited, gated really, its gone immediately... it adds cut, but its not prevalent like you would get residually with ear and lesser devises (like torque and TUNEBOT type tuners).

RESOTUNE II is all about accuracy, and that accuracy produces a clean sound.

Expect a learning curve for sure. Anyone not using a RESOTUNE is in the dark ages with their drum tuning. Once spoiled, you'll hear other kits now in a different light, you'll see others tuning methods and missing the point, incomplete, RESOTUNE II give you that power.
Thanks again for the kind comments. It's hard to articulate what is going on technically with a well cleared drum, while we all recognize the sound difference.

Note tuners "tune" just one note resonance associated with each lug's tension, while the drum actually exhibits multiple higher resonances above that lowest one note being tuned. In theory if that lowest (lug) resonance is dialed in extremely precisely all the others will be in tune too, but in practice it isn't that easy.

Perhaps if it was possible to excite and measure (to tune) all the higher note resonances with a note sniffer they could realize better clear quality than they do.

In a well cleared drum the upper resonances are still there, but just the single series of overtone notes, not a cluster of slightly different pitch notes around each overtone caused by the slightly different lug tension, smearing the overall sound.

Like I said easier to hear than describe.

John Roberts

PS: RESOTUNE offers an advanced tuning mode where you can force Tune Lug mode to search up from the current lug resonance and lock into the next higher resonance, then fine tune that. In theory if you used this advanced mode to fine "tune" all the lugs at several higher resonances too. This "could" deliver a more clear drum sound from just tuning, but using the dedicated "clear" mode is better, easier, and much faster.

[Edit] While you can hypothetically tune a drum head finer at higher resonances, and in theory the clear function would be higher resolution too, in fact with multiple full wavelengths in the drum head standing wave it becomes possible to lock onto the wrong phase when clearing... so do not try to use clear mode with upper resonances.... Sorry probably too much information. [/edit]

Last edited by john_roberts; 10-21-2015 at 04:33 PM.
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  #51  
Old 10-23-2015, 08:12 AM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_roberts View Post

In a well cleared drum the upper resonances are still there, but just the single series of overtone notes, not a cluster of slightly different pitch notes around each overtone caused by the slightly different lug tension, smearing the overall sound.
Exactly how I would have worded it if I really knew what I was talking about. So yes, the high freq sizzle is there, but its friendly, useable, welcome sizzle, and it doesn't hang around long. Its really bloody ace man!





Quote:
PS: RESOTUNE offers an advanced tuning mode where you can force Tune Lug mode to search up from the current lug resonance and lock into the next higher resonance, then fine tune that. In theory if you used this advanced mode to fine "tune" all the lugs at several higher resonances too. This "could" deliver a more clear drum sound from just tuning, but using the dedicated "clear" mode is better, easier, and much faster.

[Edit] While you can hypothetically tune a drum head finer at higher resonances, and in theory the clear function would be higher resolution too, in fact with multiple full wavelengths in the drum head standing wave it becomes possible to lock onto the wrong phase when clearing... so do not try to use clear mode with upper resonances.... Sorry probably too much information.

OK, me fiddled with this 'advanced' tuning mode on one of my snares, cep't I was in clear mode, Im on it again for tomorrow nights gig!!!

Speaking of gig's, with RT2 folks, you can't wait to get to the gig and show off your exceptionally tuned drums, its a great feeling knowing you're going to sound not just good, but 'near as perfect as you can get' good. No more "What will my drums sound like?" With RT2 tuned drums its comments all night long about how good the drums sound. Fundamental heaven.

I gigged tue night, between songs I asked the bass player to play a C#, while the note was ringing I hit my 10" tom, you should've seen the look on the bass and guitar players faces!!! They didn't know what to think. That alone was worth the $175 I paid for RT2. Yes siree Bob... errr John!

Thx again John! RT2 'is' the holy grail of drum tuners.



.....................................
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  #52  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompactDrums View Post
here we go again! I tested and wrote an extensive review of the Resotune II.

http://compactdrums.com/extensive-re...f-resotune-ii/

Comments welcome!
Really nice review! This might be helpful too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjyLy47S4bY
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  #53  
Old 10-25-2015, 12:20 AM
Mcdonap Mcdonap is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

So it's been a crazy week, and I haven't been able to play with the RTII as much as I wanted.

I did tune up a couple of drums the first night, and I was able to do a lot more with it today.

My initial reaction was "WOW!!" The first drum I tuned was a 13" tom that's always seemed a little dead sounding to me. When I cleared the drum it just came right to life. It really opened up. My other drums already sounded pretty decent, but when I cleared them... just amazing.

The Clear function is so cool. I really had no idea what to expect, but just like Les said - it just puts the RTII over the top. As you're bringing a lug "clear" from being sharp or flat, the head seems to vibrate louder and sounds like it's opening up. It's really something. Of course, when you're done, the drum just sounds fantastic.

Now, I mentioned in my initial post that I feel pretty confident about my tuning. When I tune tune by ear, my lugs all tap tune right on the money. Lately I've been using a DrumDial to get to a pressure and then use my ears to get everything even. When I used the RTII, I really didn't have to twist any lugs very much at all. (That made me feel like I had done a pretty good job.) However, despite what felt like a pretty tiny adjustment, the sound was like night and day when everything was cleared. In other words, while my tap tuning was pretty darn good... It's just not even close to clear. You really have to experience it to understand it.

I still have some experimenting to do, but I'm really excited about the RTII. I look forward to trying some different tunings. but right now I'm just really pleased with how my drums are sounding!

Thanks to John Roberts for creating it, and thanks to Les - your review was what finally pushed me to buy it.
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  #54  
Old 10-25-2015, 07:29 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdonap View Post
So it's been a crazy week, and I haven't been able to play with the RTII as much as I wanted.

I did tune up a couple of drums the first night, and I was able to do a lot more with it today.

My initial reaction was "WOW!!" The first drum I tuned was a 13" tom that's always seemed a little dead sounding to me. When I cleared the drum it just came right to life. It really opened up. My other drums already sounded pretty decent, but when I cleared them... just amazing.
Yes, I've heard this feedback from customers before. When tuning by ear it is impossible to completely dismiss unusual lug tension or account for other mechanical imperfections. RESOTUNE blindly ignores all that to measure just how the drumhead vibrates in place.

It won't magically turn every problem drum into gold, but it will help any drum sound as good as it possibly can for that head combination and physical condition.
Quote:
The Clear function is so cool. I really had no idea what to expect, but just like Les said - it just puts the RTII over the top. As you're bringing a lug "clear" from being sharp or flat, the head seems to vibrate louder and sounds like it's opening up. It's really something. Of course, when you're done, the drum just sounds fantastic.

Now, I mentioned in my initial post that I feel pretty confident about my tuning. When I tune tune by ear, my lugs all tap tune right on the money. Lately I've been using a DrumDial to get to a pressure and then use my ears to get everything even. When I used the RTII, I really didn't have to twist any lugs very much at all. (That made me feel like I had done a pretty good job.) However, despite what felt like a pretty tiny adjustment, the sound was like night and day when everything was cleared. In other words, while my tap tuning was pretty darn good... It's just not even close to clear. You really have to experience it to understand it.

I still have some experimenting to do, but I'm really excited about the RTII. I look forward to trying some different tunings. but right now I'm just really pleased with how my drums are sounding!

Thanks to John Roberts for creating it, and thanks to Les - your review was what finally pushed me to buy it.
You are welcome and thank you for the kind positive feedback. People wouldn't believe me If I made such claims for my product myself...


John Roberts

PS: Ten years ago when I tried to talk about "clearing" drumheads, independently of note tuning, few understood what I was talking about. In this thread the concept of "clearing" is getting some good discussion.
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  #55  
Old 10-25-2015, 11:59 PM
Mcdonap Mcdonap is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by john_roberts View Post
PS: Ten years ago when I tried to talk about "clearing" drumheads, independently of note tuning, few understood what I was talking about. In this thread the concept of "clearing" is getting some good discussion.
I suppose the word "clearing" sounds a bit ambiguous. However, when you are listening to the hum of the RTII and you turn the lug and the head vibrates "clear" and clean, the word makes perfect sense.

About my 13" tom - it's a pre-Yess Yamaha RC. I never really thought anything was wrong with it, but it didn't match the others in sustain. It's mounted on a stand and I was constantly moving it on the post, and moving the other drum that shares the same stand. It seemed ok if it was alone on the stand. Based on that, I was tending to blame it on how it was hanging and the weight of the other drum on the stand, etc. (The other drum never had a problem.) After I used the RTII it just matched everything else, and it wasn't picky about placement. I'm very happy about that.

I guess you do have to be careful about making certain claims. I'm not even sure a YT video could truly capture the sound of a lug going clear with the change in the resonance and all. It would be so effective to take this to someone and let them tune with it, and point out what to listen for. I don't think I picked up on it on the first drum I tuned.
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  #56  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:00 PM
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Florian Florian is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Ok, so Ive used the RT2 for about 2 weeks now, and Im getting to the point of being somewhat good at tuning with it. Funny part is, I can tell when the drum is 'clear' by the noise I hear. It is a subtle change from nearly clear, to clear, but I picked up on it right away. I will say my TuneBot was pretty darn close to clear, but as mentioned, the RT2 seemed to dial it in that last bit which took away some of the muddiness.
Fun gizmo, it will be used as my fine tuner.

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  #57  
Old 10-27-2015, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Ok, so Ive used the RT2 for about 2 weeks now, and Im getting to the point of being somewhat good at tuning with it. Funny part is, I can tell when the drum is 'clear' by the noise I hear. It is a subtle change from nearly clear, to clear, but I picked up on it right away. I will say my TuneBot was pretty darn close to clear, but as mentioned, the RT2 seemed to dial it in that last bit which took away some of the muddiness.
Fun gizmo, it will be used as my fine tuner.

F


Agree-

TUNEBOT gets you close, but still muddy. A good poor mans alternative to decent tuning.


RTII gets you there, and there's never bf heard clarity. The holy grail of drum tuners. Can do it all. I would've gladly paid more. Not as cheap as TUNEBOT/others, but once again- The holy grail of tuners.


RTII for the win! Who wants to spend time tuning and still not achieve clarity? Hard to understand until you experience said clarity.
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  #58  
Old 10-27-2015, 02:26 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Since there are no videos of anything other than one guy twisting a screw and nothing other than that, I'll have to wait until I hear it someday.

It would be nice if the machine was in a few select drum stores for demonstration purposes.
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  #59  
Old 10-27-2015, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

"one guy twisting a screw"

best. comment.

ever.
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  #60  
Old 10-28-2015, 02:46 AM
Les Ismore's Avatar
Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Wally Young View Post
Since there are no videos of anything other than one guy twisting a screw and nothing other than that, I'll have to wait until I hear it someday.

It would be nice if the machine was in a few select drum stores for demonstration purposes.

Yeah wait till you see it, its not 'as easy' to use right away as a TUNEBOT, but it does produce better results, hence the learning curve, and the more you use it the better you become with RTII.

You could get real good with RTII then charge other drummers to tune their drums, RTII then can make you money. Tell the other drummers its somewhat complicated, more so than a TUNEBOT, but the results are going to be undeniable, they can't get there with TUNEBOT/others. Holy Grail tuning costs money. Studios too, go into a studio, tap on their drums and say "Sorry, these drums are out of tune."

Last edited by Les Ismore; 10-28-2015 at 03:09 AM.
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  #61  
Old 10-28-2015, 03:16 AM
dboomer dboomer is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Yeah wait till you see it, its not 'as easy' to use right away as a TUNEBOT, but it does produce better results, hence the learning curve
Well I guess that's relative ... Not as easy to use as something that doesn't work as well. You may have to think about tuning a little differently than you did before. I know I did. But it's very easy to use when you understand that the main benefit is that you are tuning the drum to itself and not to each other in the set (although you are doing that to your own choice).

What I do ( in a 3 tom setup) is to roughly tune the middle sized tom to the relative pitch I want just by ear. You just sing that note in your head and tune the drum to that pitch trying to keep equal pitch on the batter and reso head. If they are the same head top and bottom then they will roughly have equal tension for equal pitch. If you are concerned about hitting a specific note then when you first fire up the Resotune then only push the "find pitch" button. It's gonna do its thing and finally tell you what that pitch it. If you want it to be something other than what it is now is the time to tune higher or lower. Push the find pitch button again til you get what you want while making small, consistent changes. Once you are happy with the relative fundamental pitch of the drum then push the "tune lug" button. Again after its done its thing it will give you a value. At this point you can't really (and don't want to) change this one. this value is a direct reflection of the "pitch" value. Now press the clear lug button. You should already be "green" on the first lug. Slide the Resotune around to the next lug and tweak it until it stops on the green. Keep going until you've done all the lugs. If they are all pretty close you may not have to go around again. But if some of the lugs are way off then tweaking one of them may overly affect some of the others and you'll have to go around again. I usually do anyway just to be sure. It's is very easy to hear the magic as you bring each lug into the green. You will hear the tone generator make the drum louder as the pitch at the lug comes into tune. Now I turn the drum over and do the reso side. If your heads are the same model and your tensions are even top and bottom then the lug pitch should be the same. If you tension your reso head higher or lower then the lug pitch will be different. So when you set the tension differently you get more and different harmonics. That may be something that you want. Personally I like it better when they are the same.

Sorry, this is getting to be a long post. Ok now that I have my middle tom perfect I roughly tune my upper and lower toms off that one, usually to the "call to post" pitches ( or so). Once I've got those rough pitches I was the Resotune same as above to tune those drums to themselves. It's really not very hard at all and probably takes less time than it took me to type this all out ;)
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  #62  
Old 10-28-2015, 03:59 AM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Well I guess that's relative ... Not as easy to use as something that doesn't work as well. You may have to think about tuning a little differently than you did before. I know I did. But it's very easy to use when you understand that the main benefit is that you are tuning the drum to itself and not to each other in the set (although you are doing that to your own choice).

What I do ( in a 3 tom setup) is to roughly tune the middle sized tom to the relative pitch I want just by ear. You just sing that note in your head and tune the drum to that pitch trying to keep equal pitch on the batter and reso head. If they are the same head top and bottom then they will roughly have equal tension for equal pitch. If you are concerned about hitting a specific note then when you first fire up the Resotune then only push the "find pitch" button.

Sorry, this is getting to be a long post. Ok now that I have my middle tom perfect I roughly tune my upper and lower toms off that one, usually to the "call to post" pitches ( or so). Once I've got those rough pitches I was the Resotune same as above to tune those drums to themselves. It's really not very hard at all and probably takes less time than it took me to type this all out ;)

Just to avoid any confusion the RTII has Tune Lug (lug clearing/pitch) and Tune Drum (the drums fundamental note as it is with heads on). Im assuming dboomer has the first model which has a 'find pitch' button.

Anyway, there is a slight learning curve with RT, where to place the unit when clearing, and sometimes knowing when to move on and come around again to a certain lug to reach final clear, how to move thru fast blinking tune lights etc.. I have a 6 lug 14 x 14 FT, it produces a challenge when clearing. Little stuff you pick up along the way, stuff you're not going to be aware of first time with a RESOTUNE. TUNBOT by comparison as an example is less to master.

Once you know what RESOTUNE is doing it is pretty fast to tune a drum.
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  #63  
Old 10-28-2015, 04:10 AM
dboomer dboomer is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

I have the R2 unit. I just didn't have it in front of me. So when I wrote pitch I did mean "tune drum" which is essentially the fundamental pitch of the drum.

The thing I did wrong the first time I used it was muting one head while tuning the other like I was used to. So I set small toms on my snare stand so that the entire drum can resonate. Otherwise you just center the lugs between the center two posts as you move it around.
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  #64  
Old 10-28-2015, 09:32 AM
Captain Bash Captain Bash is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

When I watched the video of this device on YouTube the end result just didn't sound that good. For me the ability to quickly tweak the tuning of my drums at the venue is key as I tune my toms so they sound good in the room. I tend to play small to medium venues, so at most just kick, snare and pair of overhead mikes.

I can see an application for this device in a studio, especially when the recording period spans weeks or months. For example I have experience of trying to get a very ringy snare which was used in a recording (but then used for a couple of club gigs) back at the exact same tuning a few weeks later. It took ages as both heads were way out from the original recorded sound.

So in short I think the tuner won't be that useful for the average giging drummer but very useful in a studio.
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  #65  
Old 10-28-2015, 01:10 PM
Mcdonap Mcdonap is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Captain Bash - I haven't seen a video that can do this product justice. I think the feature of getting all the lugs clear would be really hard to capture. (Well, at least for most of the recording you see on YT.) Maybe it could be done professionally, but I bet a lot of drummers wouldn't believe it!

dboomer and Les - when you start to clear the lugs, do you just move the unit clockwise or counterclockwise, or do you go to the opposite lug?
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  #66  
Old 10-28-2015, 04:56 PM
dboomer dboomer is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Mcdonap View Post

dboomer and Les - when you start to clear the lugs, do you just move the unit clockwise or counterclockwise, or do you go to the opposite lug?
Typically I go counterclockwise but it wouldn't matter. You could go in any order you wanted as long as you visit each lug. There are little rubber feet on the front side. You just slide the unit up against the rim until the feet prevent you from going any further and center the lug between the two center posts. You put the dowels into the posts on the back side to support the unit up off the head so that the units is floating rim height above the head. Drums must be free so that both heads resonate.
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  #67  
Old 10-28-2015, 05:45 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Mcdonap View Post
Captain Bash - I haven't seen a video that can do this product justice. I think the feature of getting all the lugs clear would be really hard to capture. (Well, at least for most of the recording you see on YT.) Maybe it could be done professionally, but I bet a lot of drummers wouldn't believe it!
Yup... I tried to shoot some video myself for the first generation RESOTUNE and the results were amateurish to put it kindly. Hard to imagine a smartphone or computer speaker doing any drum sound justice.
Quote:
dboomer and Les - when you start to clear the lugs, do you just move the unit clockwise or counterclockwise, or do you go to the opposite lug?
To clear lugs you can step around the drumhead in any direction or pattern, while it will be easier to keep track of just going CW or CCW. As I think I posted before, you need to make it around the drum head two complete passes to insure optimal clear quality. RESOTUNE updates it's internal clear reference if a lug registers a stronger (more resonant) return. Two passes around gets them all in agreement to the same (strongest) clear reference.

Regarding direction or patterns, you will notice two loudspeakers on the bottom of RESOTUNE firing at the drumhead. These two speakers bracket either side of the lug being measured and reduce interaction from the other lugs.

Between the first and second generation I did research into trying to make RESOTUNE smaller and lighter (and cheaper). I can perform the scan and tune functions using only a single speaker. I can even measure clear with just one speaker...but, and this is a huge BUT, when using just a single speaker the tune and clear quality does not converge to a stable final result. The lugs interact with each other, just like now when tap tuning by ear or using a sniffer does. So you would have to chase tune and clear quality around and across the drumhead using the same technique as tap tuning. Then at the end of all that chasing you still might not get the same high quality result (I couldn't in my lab).

A cheaper single speaker version of RESOTUNE could probably work better (more accurately) than a note sniffer, but IMO doesn't get you all the way to a good final clear result, using a straightforward procedure, so I abandoned it (smaller, lighter speakers didn't work either). Cheap simple tuning approaches (like say a smart phone app) can get you most of the way there, but don't quite get you across the finish line.

Some customers tell me they used to clear their drums by ear after they finished tuning with other tuners.

JR
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  #68  
Old 10-28-2015, 06:51 PM
Mcdonap Mcdonap is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

I've been using the RTII kind of going to the opposite lug - like you'd do to try to evenly tension a new head. Then once everything's clear, I may go CW or CCW just for speed. Glad to know either way is fine.
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  #69  
Old 10-28-2015, 08:58 PM
Captain Bash Captain Bash is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

What I struggle understanding is why such a fuss is made about tuning a drum, all these devices come on, it's really not that hard to do with just a drum key and some ears. Also, fact is I also tune the drum for rebound and sometimes aim for uneven tension, eg. usually de-tune my 5 o-clock lug by a smidgen.

It would be interesting to A and B blind comparison of the same kits tuned via ear no devices and a Resotune or other device tuned kit. I suspect I couldn't tell any difference. I confess I own a drum dial but won't get fooled again !
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  #70  
Old 10-28-2015, 09:50 PM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bash View Post
When I watched the video of this device on YouTube the end result just didn't sound that good. For me the ability to quickly tweak the tuning of my drums at the venue is key as I tune my toms so they sound good in the room. I tend to play small to medium venues, so at most just kick, snare and pair of overhead mikes.

I can see an application for this device in a studio, especially when the recording period spans weeks or months. For example I have experience of trying to get a very ringy snare which was used in a recording (but then used for a couple of club gigs) back at the exact same tuning a few weeks later. It took ages as both heads were way out from the original recorded sound.

So in short I think the tuner won't be that useful for the average giging drummer but very useful in a studio. It would be interesting to A and B blind comparison of the same kits tuned via ear no devices and a Resotune or other device tuned kit. I suspect I couldn't tell any difference. I confess I own a drum dial but won't get fooled again !

What you're doing is tuning to lug resonance when you conventionally tune 'to the room', RTII has made me aware of this. If lug resonance is random, its that which interacts favorably or unfavorably with the room so to speak and tuning this way is never complete, precise, one drum is always going to sound better than the others as you simply cannot get each lug to be accurately in tune without some serious microprocessing capabilities. RTII's clearing capability ensures a 'cleared' drum will sound good in any room.

Take my word for it RTII is the holy grail of drum tuners, you have never heard your drums sound this good. Since sound is subjective, a video could be shot to show a sonic difference in results between RTII and other lesser drum tuning devises, but that's a whole other arena for John- adverti$ing. RTII is still ground floor. RTII is a sound generating microprocessor that analyzes frequencies it imposes on a drum/drumhead and shows the results, its a powerful tool.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdonap View Post

dboomer and Les - when you start to clear the lugs, do you just move the unit clockwise or counterclockwise, or do you go to the opposite lug?

Altho yes, you can go any direction, going around the drum sequentially (either direction) is the easiest, fastest way, and Im lazy, going cross-lug means more work moving the unit.





Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post

The thing I did wrong the first time I used it was muting one head while tuning the other like I was used to. So I set small toms on my snare stand so that the entire drum can resonate. Otherwise you just center the lugs between the center two posts as you move it around.

What I discovered (first time) was RTII did still tune/clear with a dampening devise on the head. I had a small piece of tape on the reso head and noticed getting to green in clear was proving difficult, but not impossible, RTII was calculating with the anomaly, and it showed the extra effort in the LED sequencing. Keep in mind tuning with tape, gels on etc. is not appropriate, it results in a compromise, when RTII never needs to compromise to produce excellent results. RTII tuned/cleared drums sound and resolve optimally with no attachments to the heads. Can you use tape, gel's after clearing? Mmmmmm, experiment, since sound 'is' subjective... you could, but somewhat analogous to using a bra on the front of a motor car.





Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
You just slide the unit up against the rim until the feet prevent you from going any further and center the lug between the two center posts. You put the dowels into the posts on the back side to support the unit up off the head so that the units is floating rim height above the head. Drums must be free so that both heads resonate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_roberts View Post
Regarding direction or patterns, you will notice two loudspeakers on the bottom of RESOTUNE firing at the drumhead. These two speakers bracket either side of the lug being measured and reduce interaction from the other lugs. JR

While clearing I've noticed there are slight differences as to ones perception of getting RTII centered over the lug to be cleared. RTII clearing posts gap* is 1" 3/16, a tension rod is 3/16" wide, so there 'is' an inch of reading space there.

If Im sharp on a clear, I can move RTII just a little bit and get a green light. Knowing this can speed up your clearing process, and if you're overly OCD about clearing you might want to affix a thin stick to RTII in the center of the clearing posts to line up the unit with the center of the tension rod head, tho the end sonic result will probably be negligible, or maybe not, I'll probably get to that OCD state and have to experiment.

*Pic is a view of the bottom of RTII
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Last edited by Les Ismore; 10-28-2015 at 10:20 PM.
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  #71  
Old 10-29-2015, 02:54 AM
Mcdonap Mcdonap is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

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Originally Posted by Captain Bash View Post
What I struggle understanding is why such a fuss is made about tuning a drum, all these devices come on, it's really not that hard to do with just a drum key and some ears. Also, fact is I also tune the drum for rebound and sometimes aim for uneven tension, eg. usually de-tune my 5 o-clock lug by a smidgen.

It would be interesting to A and B blind comparison of the same kits tuned via ear no devices and a Resotune or other device tuned kit. I suspect I couldn't tell any difference. I confess I own a drum dial but won't get fooled again !
I don't mean to sound immodest, but I can tune my drums quite well by ear. And you're right - it's not difficult to do. In fact, when I used the RTII I hardly had to turn my lugs at all - they were all very close. The thing is, even these small adjustments made a difference like night and day. It sounds crazy, but you really have to hear it and experience it to understand. Once you get everything clear, you probably won't want to detune any of the lugs.

I bet you COULD tell a difference in the A/B blind comparison - ear vs. RTII. I also bet you could tell the difference between a kit tuned with a DrumDial or TuneBot compared to the RTII.

I also have a DrumDial. It's not that I need it, but I find when I'd get to a tuning I liked, I could measure the tension and easily repeat it. It's just another tool that makes life a little easier. When I need to change heads, I'm looking to do it as quickly as possible!

I don't mean to sound like I'm making a fuss over a tuning device, but it's really impressive when all the lugs get clear. Believe me, I'd much rather spend my time playing and practicing rather than tuning.
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  #72  
Old 10-29-2015, 05:38 PM
john_roberts john_roberts is offline
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Default Re: Extensive Review of Resotune II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bash View Post
What I struggle understanding is why such a fuss is made about tuning a drum, all these devices come on, it's really not that hard to do with just a drum key and some ears. Also, fact is I also tune the drum for rebound and sometimes aim for uneven tension, eg. usually de-tune my 5 o-clock lug by a smidgen.

It would be interesting to A and B blind comparison of the same kits tuned via ear no devices and a Resotune or other device tuned kit. I suspect I couldn't tell any difference. I confess I own a drum dial but won't get fooled again !
If you are happy with the drum sound you get now, keep doing that.

There are enough drummers asking for help to keep guys like me busy. In my judgement there are entire product categories of damping rings and trick heads engineered to reduce the audibility of poorly tuned drums, precisely because it isn't easy for most drummers.

Thanks again for some more positive feedback.. I know it sounds a little hard to believe coming from me, so I try not to make such expansive claims. It's better to hear personal anecdotes from happy customers sharing their actual results.

John Roberts
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