caddywumpus
Archnemesis of Larryace
Oh, I totally want to continue working, don't get me wrong. I was playing the role of the idealist for a sec...
Coated Ambassador drum head
- Thread starter wbb25
- Start date
bobdadruma
Platinum Member
You know, You're right! Why can't you use any type of head that you want. I am currently using Aquarian Performance IIs with Power Dot. They are supposed to be tuned loose but I am tuning them tight and I like them better that way. I have been switching them back and forth with my Remo's for about a year now! I also use Evans hydraulic from time to time. It depends on my mood. I am like you, I like change every now and then. Why not change things from time to time. Variety is the spice of life! Why can't you play a Jazz ride with a Paiste 2002? If you like it then use it! No one has ever said to me that my playing was good but you have to change your heads or your cymbals! I get compliments on my sound all the time. I frequently use different combinations of heads and cymbals.
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dkerwood
Silver Member
Personally, I'm lucky when I can replace heads at all. Heads are EXPENSIVE. My heads have to last me 2-3 years. Thus, if I make a bad choice (and by "bad," I just mean "I like it less"), I'm stuck with it for a while. Now, I will buy different types of heads when they're on sale just to try them. I'm always digging through the bargain bin at my local drum shop (slightly used drumheads usually for $1-3)... but I always come back to coated single ply. They do the best job of doing everything that I need.
As for cymbals... well... I haven't really gotten to the point where I have enough for that many "options." Still working on that. I have a quiet ride and a full range ride. I have a set of 2 modern crash cymbals, 2 vintage crash cymbals, and 2 hand hammered crashes. I've only got one set of hats (not much can improve over vintage New Beats, IMHO), and my splash and china.
bobdadruma
Platinum Member
I would like to mention this. In spite of what many people say, you can reuse drum heads! I have been doing this for over thirty years! If the head is good, you can mount it and re-torque it. Don't be afraid to recycle drum heads! I have traded heads with other drummers also in the past and they worked fine. If you mount the head and it will tune, it is OK! As far as cymbals go, I am like Jay Lenno with cars! Cymbals just seem to find me! I buy them new and used, I trade them, I borrow them. When I don't want them anymore I sell them or donate them to schools. They are the Saffron of drumming, By this I mean that they are the color base for many spices! A drummer cannot have enough cymbals! Try all of them that you can, whenever you can!
caddywumpus
Archnemesis of Larryace
Who says you can't reuse heads? Fools!
If you couldn't reuse heads, I would spend so much money on them. For example, when I'm in the studio, engineers (typically) want the attack of a clear head, then they ask me to try putting coated heads on to see what it sounds like, then they say, "no, that's not it--go back to the clear heads." That would get spendy pretty darned quick! I guess it's my fault for bringing extra heads with me, which might encourage that kind of curiosity, but it's not so bad when I'm getting paid by the hour...
I have several sets of heads. Clear 1-ply, clear 2-ply, coated 1-ply, and coated 2-ply...and a few for each individual drum in most cases. The heads with less use get used in the studio and the more heavily used ones I use live.
bobdadruma
Platinum Member
I have read many times and in many different places over the years that you shouldn't reuse heads and you should replace them frequently. Propaganda from head manufactures I suppose! I never bought into it.
Cymbalrider
Pioneer Member
I think about half the drumheads on the market don't need to be there. There's all these super thick multiple ply heads with internal dampening, dry vents, rings, power dots and such. The heads that I've seen to always be best for any situation are regular single ply heads. Two-ply heads I can understand as long as they are wide open, if you are one of those people who beat drums instead of play them. Coated, Clear, Etched, Laminated--that's your choice but just don't muffle the things. External dampening like moon gels or internal (the old mufflers they used to put in drums) are fine if say you are in a super small place with say wood floors or something like that. Too many people now have drums that sound like cardboard being hit with a broomstick. Evans heads seem to have a thicker more dead center sound btw. The best sounding drums I've ever heard were kits like Louie Bellson and Buddy Rich who had all coated Ambassadors (Dave Weckl does too but he's got a lot of electronic assistance with his kit) Coated Ambassadors will work great for whatever you can fit them on. Evans G1 Coated heads are fine too, but just have a stiffer feel and thicker sound I personally don't care for, but you might. I've only tried Aquarians once and the coated heads flaked everywhere, but I heard they had issues for a while with their new factory.
dkerwood
Silver Member
Definitely! I used to be lucky enough to have a friend who provided backline drums for touring bands. He'd buy a set of heads for a specific drummer and then give them to me when he didn't want/need them (which was often). I've since moved, and he's gotten a "real" job, so I now have to find my own heads.
I think in my life I've bought maybe 2 new snare heads, 3 new tom heads, and one new bass drum reso. All the other heads I've procured have been used purchases, re-used stuff from friends, off-shoots from schools, wrong sizes that other people bought, or heads that were originally on drums that I had before (funny how that beat up Ambassador is the first thing to come off of a snare, but then is the first thing to go ON the next snare that comes through my hands).
Even the beat-up 15 year old clear Ambassadors that were on my old Ludwig got a new life on some of my older gear later in life...
Birdman
Member
Uhh, don't think heads wear out, and shouldn't be sent to the trash heap (shoes and tires do wear out)
Check this out -- at about the 4:19 marker, look at what that drum head is doing, in actuallity. Unbelievable, and proof that old heads are that, old and no good anymore, in relative terms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Gxut0odyc
Check this out -- at about the 4:19 marker, look at what that drum head is doing, in actuallity. Unbelievable, and proof that old heads are that, old and no good anymore, in relative terms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Gxut0odyc
KarlCrafton
Platinum Member
Oh man, that looked awesome! Wow.
The cymbal too, that's incredible....whowodathunkit?
As for the thread...coated Ambassadors for me on toms and kick, coated Emp, or coated Emp w/top dot on the snare.
They just work great, and never sound bad or out of place--and they last for me.
The cymbal too, that's incredible....whowodathunkit?
As for the thread...coated Ambassadors for me on toms and kick, coated Emp, or coated Emp w/top dot on the snare.
They just work great, and never sound bad or out of place--and they last for me.
remoking
Senior Member
I actually saw that clip on Time Warp the other day hah....I couldn't believe it either...
Funky Crêpe
Silver Member
what is the actual difference between ambassadors and vintage a's???
im a jazz player and am wondering if the vintage a's are good?
im a jazz player and am wondering if the vintage a's are good?
dkerwood
Silver Member
I don't understand what you're asking. To my knowledge, "Vintage A's" always refers to older Zildjian Avedis cymbals. I could be wrong, of course, but that's the only "Vintage A" I'm aware of.
Ambassadors work great for jazz. If you want a slightly more vintage sound, there's always the fiberskyn heads...
Michael G
Silver Member
By Vintage A, he means the line of Remo heads that come out not too long ago called Vintage A heads.
They are essentially the same thing as Ambassadors, same thickness, just instead of 1 ply of 10mm it has 2 of 7mm and 3mm (around those lines). It was to model the first Remo heads that were invented in the late 50s. It never made sense to me, as the first plastic heads were not popular at all. It wasn't until years later they caught on and drummers started switching from calfskin.
As far as sound goes, I never personally heard one, but I really don't see it as anything to jump through hoops for. They'll sound a little different sure, so if you want to go for it and see if you like it better then go for it.
They are essentially the same thing as Ambassadors, same thickness, just instead of 1 ply of 10mm it has 2 of 7mm and 3mm (around those lines). It was to model the first Remo heads that were invented in the late 50s. It never made sense to me, as the first plastic heads were not popular at all. It wasn't until years later they caught on and drummers started switching from calfskin.
As far as sound goes, I never personally heard one, but I really don't see it as anything to jump through hoops for. They'll sound a little different sure, so if you want to go for it and see if you like it better then go for it.
wolfmoon
Silver Member
from Remo's site: http://www.remo.com/portal/products/3/8/50/ds_coated.html
Vintage A the head that changed the world in 1957! Constructed of 2-ply 7.5- and 3-mil polyester film, this drumhead changed the art of drumming around the world as the first successful alternative to calf heads.
The Coated Ambassador® heads are medium-weight heads made with a coated single-ply 10-mil Mylar® film to produce a warm open, bright, and resonant sound with a warm attack. Coated Ambassador® heads are the standard of the industry for both live and recording situations.
Skitch
Pioneer Member
I'm going to have to disagree with on this as will history as there were plenty of jazz players who used 22" and 24" bass drums, a couple of which were/are Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson. The ONLY reason that 18" bass drums have become the accepted bop kit is that this was the biggest size bass drum which would fit into a taxi cab in New York City. Yes, the 18" became part of the sound, but not the only acceptable sound. It wasn't the tone, as some claim, and this is coming from a chat with a guy who was there! You couldn't get a 20" bass drum through the door of a taxi.
Actually, I saw a drummer using a Manu Katche kit on a rock gig the other night. He uses it on this gig regularly because he is tired of lugging a bunch of crap around. The bass drum, by the way s a 16" and not even an 18". With the drum head options available, he has made this work. And he works six nights a week and can be loaded up and on the road in about 15 minutes! Another drummer I know of uses a Gretsch Catalina bop kit - 18" bass drum with an EMAD on it. Another rock drummer. Yes, in both instances, the drums are miked, but when was the last time the kick drum wasn't miked on a rock gig?
In all honesty, it is the touch that the drummer possesses and not the gear. I played a house gig on kit that wasn't mine including the cymbals which were Sabian XS20s. I thought they sounded great and I didn't have to bring a bunch of my stuff. As I write this, I remember a clinic with Bermuda Schwartz stating that "How the most expensive cymbals aren't always what records the best." If I recall correctly, he said something about how many drummers would be suprised at how many cheap cymbals were actually used in the studio because the mics pick them up better.
Is there a certain snob appeal to seeing what we expect? You bet! But it isn't the only factor. While I respect your argument about dressing professional - which is true, this a case of apples to oranges as I have seen many drummers play in a jazz band with pinstripe heads on a Tama 5 piece Rockstar kit with less than "jazz" cymbals and sound absolutley brilliant! And guess what - he doesn't care! One guy even a had a Taz caricature sticker on the front of his bass drum. It is the hand which wields the sword which makes the sword potentially lethal.
So now that I have had my say, Yes, the Coated Ambassador is the best drum head I can think of for the original question. I use a coated Ambassador on the snare and clear Ambassadors on my toms (both sides).
Mike
http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
dkerwood
Silver Member
I was just talking about the extremes. You wouldn't reasonably show up to play jazz with a marching snare or popcorn snare. You probably wouldn't show up to play that same gig with a 22" china and a 10" splash. How about an electronic kick? You could play, sure, but unless you're playing some crazy progressive jazz, the bandleader would probably not ask you back (if he's interested in a traditional sound).
I'm not talking about using "abnormal" gear and miking or tuning to make it sound "normal"- I'm totally in favor of that. I'm simply saying that there are some sonic expectations of certain genres. I've lost jazz bass gigs to other guys just because I play electric instead of upright bass. I could have played those gigs as well (if not better) as those other guys, but the bandleader wanted that SOUND.
If you want to be progressive, you can do whatever you want. If your interest is working a lot, though, you need to embrace some "standards" and try to do what you can to sound "normal" for the genre.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson were playing big band music. While technically part of the jazz family the needs are very different than small group jazz. You would be very hard pressed to use anything bigger than a 20" and still get authentic, stylistically appropriate sounds.
As for the rock dudes, using the small drums, I have tried the EMAD and other similar heads and they just don't sound right. It can be done but there is a lot of compromise to do it.
KarlCrafton
Platinum Member
Say's who?
A smaller or larger bass drum could be played at a level that is appropriate for the setting, but the size and sound of the actual instrument is up to the player.
If the player can make it work, then it's appropriate.
As for the Vintage A Remo head. (Vintage Emp's are coming out too).
I only have one (a 14) and to be honest I didn't like it.
It was not as crisp as the regular Ambassador, kind of dull sounding, and even though it is thinner than a coated Emperor, the Emp sounded more full and not at all flat.
I was told by a couple guys at the shop that they sound better after they are played in a little, but who wants to put up with a sound they don't really like until that happens?
The Vintage Emp is 2 plies of 7.5 white film. The white film makes a difference in the sound and action.
I remember being kinda torqued when Remo changed to the clear film a few years ago, but I actually like the clear film a little better. The sound is more open and crisp with a coated clear film.
But, if you need a thicker attack, and real solid tone for your music, the 'Vintage Emp" will be good to try out.
Actually, you could always order the Emps with White film, but it was one of those things that stores didn't stock and it wasn't the "standard" Emp Remo was selling anymore (for whatever reason).