My 8th's sound like quarters

Jonny Thunder

Junior Member
When playing a straight 8th note beat (straight 8th's on hi-hat/ride), I've developed the strike-tap, push/pull Moeller thing over the years out of efficiency. When I listen back to my playing lately, the "&'s" have gotten so much quieter than the quarters that it sounds like I'm just playing quarter notes. Guess I should work on trying to accent the &'s or just lose that type of stroke when I need the 8th's to sound more uniform? Any tips on how to work on this?
 
Yeah, sound is number one, so if it isn't sounding as it should, change up what you're doing.

Isn't recording and listening back an amazing tool?

I don't mean to come across as flip, but whatever technique results in the even sound you want is the one you should use. Lots of finger control is what would work for me.
 
For push/pull, you have to really get down a solid snap for the second note so that it doesn't sound uneven. One way to think of it while you practice is to focus on accenting the second or "pull" note, while keeping the first note at normal volume.
 
When playing a straight 8th note beat (straight 8th's on hi-hat/ride), I've developed the strike-tap, push/pull Moeller thing over the years out of efficiency. When I listen back to my playing lately, the "&'s" have gotten so much quieter than the quarters that it sounds like I'm just playing quarter notes. Guess I should work on trying to accent the &'s or just lose that type of stroke when I need the 8th's to sound more uniform? Any tips on how to work on this?

It sounds to me like you're giving your 8th notes a quarter note pulse, which is highly danceable!

Playing 8ths uniformly with no dynamic pulse makes them sound more rigid. But not all music grooves and uniform 8ths are something you need to be able to do when called for...

I'd say don't over complicate it with fancy techniques, just hit all your 8ths with the same force when you don't want it pulsed. Simplify.
 
There's no need for any kind of special technique just to play 8th notes on the hihats-- except for extremely bright tempos, in which case you're definitely defeating your purpose by doing this. Stop playing your technique, and play the music-- there are times when you want to accent fairly strongly, and others when you want it dead even. Decide what sound you want for this particular song, and make that sound on the drums.
 
For push/pull, you have to really get down a solid snap for the second note so that it doesn't sound uneven. One way to think of it while you practice is to focus on accenting the second or "pull" note, while keeping the first note at normal volume.

From my perspective, at most tempos it makes very little sense to use some sort of Moeller-like action if I don't want an accent. If I want all the notes to sound the same, I play them with the same stroke. YMMV

Don't get me wrong, the whole Gordy Knudtson open/close thing is cool, but for most things it's unnecessary.
 
From my perspective, at most tempos it makes very little sense to use some sort of Moeller-like action if I don't want an accent. If I want all the notes to sound the same, I play them with the same stroke. YMMV

Don't get me wrong, the whole Gordy Knudtson open/close thing is cool, but for most things it's unnecessary.

It was never a conscious thing to develop and use that technique. Just came naturally out of trying to conserve energy during long gigs over the years. It slowly became the default for my 8th note beats. Now it's to the point where I think I'm playing straight even volume 8ths at the time, but hear something different on the playback. So yeah, need to work on different accents and using the same stroke for all notes when the song calls for it.
 
It was never a conscious thing to develop and use that technique. Just came naturally out of trying to conserve energy during long gigs over the years. It slowly became the default for my 8th note beats. Now it's to the point where I think I'm playing straight even volume 8ths at the time, but hear something different on the playback. So yeah, need to work on different accents and using the same stroke for all notes when the song calls for it.

I've gone through a similar process. I had a few recordings come back and I felt I was just too heavy on the 1/4s. So, I've taped myself a lot playing grooves and varying the hihat from accented to unaccented to get a sense of which grooves I like in which style.

But, Todd Bishop is right, the way past it isn't so much technical, it's about HEARING those even 8ths very consciously and then getting the sound out. I mean, I know I can make my hand play even eighths physically, it's about retuning my ear to what I'm trying to play.

BTW, another thing I started doing to get my head into a different place was to practice all my 8th/16th type grooves with an accent on the upbeat. You can find some really nice stuff that way. Gives everything an entirely different lilt.
 
From my perspective, at most tempos it makes very little sense to use some sort of Moeller-like action if I don't want an accent. If I want all the notes to sound the same, I play them with the same stroke. YMMV

Don't get me wrong, the whole Gordy Knudtson open/close thing is cool, but for most things it's unnecessary.

To each his own, I suppose. I will say that a tiny bit of accenting might be a part of the equation at some tempos, but the best trade off for me is probably that if I use mostly wrist and fingers I can do it all night really fast(that's what she said). I play really quick punk stuff a good bit, and back when I started I always just tried to bang out each note of the 8ths with a full downstroke... I got tired really quick at high tempo and higher volume you find in that environment.

At lower tempos when I want it to feel more rigid, I'll definitely just hack them out and make it sound bomb, but when you're talking lots of 2/4 at tempos on the other side of 200 all night, I give myself a bit of leeway.
 
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