Going to the next level and practicing as you get older - age?

T

Talismanis

Senior Member
Hi guys.
Just wondering what your thoughts are on going to the "next level," becoming professional and looked up to or respected by other drummers of an advanced level. By no means do I consider myself at that level at all, but I'm interested in your thoughts.
How does age affect this?
On one hand you get people like Tony Royster, Thomas Pridgen or Buddy Rich who started playing when they were in the womb and run around win drumoffs when they're about 3 months old (i'm using some artistic license here guys). On the other hand you get people like Akira Jimbo who start much later and still become highly respected drummers with great technical ability.
Some people seem to play all their life and only "make it" in their later years, or perhaps people have the ability but not the luck.

I'm also interested in what you guys think about practicing as you get older. Does age effect your muscles, do you have to fight your body? Again, people like Buddy were still lightning fast into old age. Is it too late for an 18 year old who's been playing for a while to become a fast double bass player if he's only been doing double bass for 6 months in comparison to a guy who's had a double pedal from the beginning (or similar situation - replace double bass/18 year olds with any other key word you want). I'd love to one day be able to keep up with Kollias, just to prove to myself that I can do it! Of course I know it's not all about speed and chops, but I believe that musicianship is something that can only grow as you get older and more experienced whereas your muscles might get slower or weaker.

I'm just interested in your thoughts - I'm 18 and I know that when I'm warmed up and in the right mindset I can play pretty well, but I'm constantly plagued by thoughts of "Oh I'm not good enough, soandso was world class by the time he was nine!" so if anything this thread might help ease my quite-possibly-unjustified-and-silly worries.

Peace out guysssssss
 
I've been playing 30+ years and my chops are way faster and tastier than they were 10 years ago. I think it has to do with your dedication to your craft and what you focus your mind on. I didn't focus on double-bass myself, but i am very pleased with my progress as a drummer over the last 10 years. My body feels a little more tired after practice if I don't play for awhile, but as long as I'm playing regularly, I'm just fine. It's the late nights at the studio/ earlier morning commute to work that's killing me, but it's worth it.

In a nutshell. I wouldn't worry about it. The only limitations are in your head.
 
You should only compare yourself to yourself. If you are not progressing, big problem. As long as you keep progressing, you are doing fine. Age has nothing to do with how fast you can go, assuming you are working the sticks and your limbs in a correct and non damaging manner. Everything drumming originates in the mind first. Forget about the aging factor, focus on your own progress. Your journey will be different than mine, will be different than anyone else. This is your baby (your drumming life) and you can do with it what you want. Be competitive with your past self, not anyone else.

When I came back from my 20 year break, I wanted to work on my singles and progress in that area. So I did, for a few years. Doing so, I realized that my singles would never be the way I want them until I got my weak hand as capable as my strong hand. So I dropped the singles regimen and concentrated on being equally as capable with my weak hand.

Just this year, after probably 3 years of strict left hand focus, I reached the point where my left hand is equally capable as my right, close enough. (which gives me so much pleasure, there are no words to describe. I highly recommend going for equalization) So I am starting on my singles again. I am super excited because they are sounding so even, I can't hear any differences between hands, can't hear differences between singles and doubles. Which is HUGE for this drummer, huge I tell ya. And my speed, after I am completely warmed up, is up to about 900 really even sounding singles a minute, with no end in sight. I've only been re-focusing on singles for about 2 weeks now, all I can say is watch out.

You are where you are. No apologies, no regrets. There are no shortcuts, just hours spent. The object is to keep progressing, not compare yourself to anyone else. Keep attempting to play what is just out of your reach at practice, not play stuff you already know. In fact, don't even call it practice. Instead, say, I'm going to my drum room to progress, and be true to that.
 
larryace said:
You should only compare yourself to yourself. If you are not progressing, big problem. As long as you keep progressing, you are doing fine. Age has nothing to do with how fast you can go, assuming you are working the sticks and your limbs in a correct and non damaging manner. Everything drumming originates in the mind first. Forget about the aging factor, focus on your own progress. Your journey will be different than mine, will be different than anyone else. This is your baby (your drumming life) and you can do with it what you want. Be competitive with your past self, not anyone else.

When I came back from my 20 year break, I wanted to work on my singles and progress in that area. So I did, for a few years. Doing so, I realized that my singles would never be the way I want them until I got my weak hand as capable as my strong hand. So I dropped the singles regimen and concentrated on being equally as capable with my weak hand.

Just this year, after probably 3 years of strict left hand focus, I reached the point where my left hand is equally capable as my right, close enough. (which gives me so much pleasure, there are no words to describe. I highly recommend going for equalization) So I am starting on my singles again. I am super excited because they are sounding so even, I can't hear any differences between hands, can't hear differences between singles and doubles. Which is HUGE for this drummer, huge I tell ya. And my speed, after I am completely warmed up, is up to about 900 really even sounding singles a minute, with no end in sight. I've only been re-focusing on singles for about 2 weeks now, all I can say is watch out.

You are where you are. No apologies, no regrets. There are no shortcuts, just hours spent. The object is to keep progressing, not compare yourself to anyone else. Keep attempting to play what is just out of your reach at practice, not play stuff you already know. In fact, don't even call it practice. Instead, say, I'm going to my drum room to progress, and be true to that.
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Larry.....right on time with the perfect answer as always

I feel like yr my drum uncle or something....hahahahahahaha

we need to have a beer some time
 
Some people just get better and better with age (Steve Smith for example).

Some people don't rest on their laurels and continue to take lessons well after they've accomplished a lot (Neil Peart, Greg Bissonette).

Most stay about the same.

Some go backwards in ability because they don't keep up with their practice.

As for does "age effect your muscles" that is hard to say for sure.
I hung out with Louie Bellson a few times at clinics. Away from the drum kit, he seems very frail, and had trouble walking at a normal pace. But when he sat down behind his drums, he might as well have been 1/2 his age. How a guy who could barely walk could sit down and pump out double bass roll, and how a guy who's hands clearly had the shakes when he did something normal could then sit down and play the smoothest double stroke roll you ever heard, I just don't know.
 
In my mid 60's I don't have anything close to the chops I had at 30. Having said that, I make
up for it in being infinitely more tasteful in my approach to playing while using what I can do.
 
If you want to keep or improve you chops as you age you need to keep up the practice - period.
As with sports we're definitely going to slow down as we age. The only way slow this slowing down process, is by maintaining a structured workout/practice session. In drumming, you're not using big muscle groups, or racking you body as you would playing sports. So the effects of aging are going to less on you drumming as they would on your ball game.
Keep practicing for your hands and you ears will mature (improve) on their own.
 
Gvdadrummasum said:
we need to have a beer some time
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Anthony, I'd really like that. You are definitely on my list of DWer's I want to meet, I get a lot out of your posts, love your attitude. Plus we live close enough to actually make it happen. Anytime you are playing in Central Jersey/South Jersey/Philly area...please let me know. I'd love to see you play with one of your bands and hang out. I'll do the same if I'm up north, deal?
 
keep it simple said:
I'd be so happy to attain the level Steve progressed from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENP_47Zvg_s ;) ;) ;)
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Yes, Steve is an impressive player, having followed him throughout the years, a long way since he play with Jean Luc Ponty and Journey.

This solo from Steve is from last year http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/stevesmithhiromidrumsolo.html

What amaze me (beside the incredible level he has reached on the kit) is how different he seats and set the kit compared to the link from 1983.


For the topic, I dont have a "next level" as such, I simply progressed through the years and keep progressing, but my little time away from the drums everytime I changed countries had a beneficial effect on me in terms of how and what to practice, my recent back pain suffering and new approach to setting up the kit and how I seat at the drums have also had effect on my playing, for the best, I may add, so it's all part of "progressing" :)
 
Steve is an absolute master. If nothing else, I aspire to have his longevity behind the kit.
 
Talismanis said:
Is it too late for an 18 year old who's been playing for a while to become a fast double bass player if he's only been doing double bass for 6 months in comparison to a guy who's had a double pedal from the beginning (or similar situation - replace double bass/18 year olds with any other key word you want). I'd love to one day be able to keep up with Kollias, just to prove to myself that I can do it! Of course I know it's not all about speed and chops, but I believe that musicianship is something that can only grow as you get older and more experienced whereas your muscles might get slower or weaker.
Click to expand...

Yes, you'll be able to train to that level of speed despite starting at 18. You'll need the proper training techniques and exercises, enough hours in the day to work on it, every day, with a day of rest here and there as your body becomes acclimated to the strain. Proper nutrition and lifestyle will play a part as well. But above all you'll need sufficient motivation to do all of this, and honestly, I don't think "just to prove to myself that I can do it" is a very good reason by itself. Do you love the music for this type of drumming? Having a band that motivates you to practice, and creating music using the talents you've developed -- those are great motivators.

Also, the idea that musicianship will simply "grow as you get older" -- that's not the way I see it at all. You'll need to actually study music to truly understand the drummer's role within the band, and what type of interaction is desirable in a given musical situation. You'll need experience in as wide a variety of drumming situations as possible. In addition to your double bass study, volunteer to play in the pit at your community theater, join a cover band, or a polka band, whatever. Take some music theory classes, learn some guitar, piano, or bass. Don't assume that you will become a more musical drummer without first becoming more of a musician!
 
larryace said:
You should only compare yourself to yourself. If you are not progressing, big problem. As long as you keep progressing, you are doing fine. Age has nothing to do with how fast you can go, assuming you are working the sticks and your limbs in a correct and non damaging manner. Everything drumming originates in the mind first. Forget about the aging factor, focus on your own progress. Your journey will be different than mine, will be different than anyone else. This is your baby (your drumming life) and you can do with it what you want. Be competitive with your past self, not anyone else.

When I came back from my 20 year break, I wanted to work on my singles and progress in that area. So I did, for a few years. Doing so, I realized that my singles would never be the way I want them until I got my weak hand as capable as my strong hand. So I dropped the singles regimen and concentrated on being equally as capable with my weak hand.

Just this year, after probably 3 years of strict left hand focus, I reached the point where my left hand is equally capable as my right, close enough. (which gives me so much pleasure, there are no words to describe. I highly recommend going for equalization) So I am starting on my singles again. I am super excited because they are sounding so even, I can't hear any differences between hands, can't hear differences between singles and doubles. Which is HUGE for this drummer, huge I tell ya. And my speed, after I am completely warmed up, is up to about 900 really even sounding singles a minute, with no end in sight. I've only been re-focusing on singles for about 2 weeks now, all I can say is watch out.

You are where you are. No apologies, no regrets. There are no shortcuts, just hours spent. The object is to keep progressing, not compare yourself to anyone else. Keep attempting to play what is just out of your reach at practice, not play stuff you already know. In fact, don't even call it practice. Instead, say, I'm going to my drum room to progress, and be true to that.
Click to expand...

Great to hear that Larry. That has been my focus as well. I have noticed that by focusing on my left hand development (as well as singles) my overall playing is really better than it ever was. Being able to play evenly with both hands has just made everything else better. I suppose this is obvious, but sure wish I would have had the self discipline to work on things like this when I was younger.
 
I think Chris Adler didn't start playing until his early 20's. I'm not really sure who that is, but I hear a lot of people throw out that statistic in threads like this :)

If you enjoy playing, just play.
 
Chris Adler is an excellent drummer, look him up :).

I have been starting to enjoy metal more and more recently, but I get frustrated because my feet aren't fast enough to keep up yet so I can't have fun playing along to it! I'm getting there slowly though.

@brentcn: I don't want to be a speed-king hit-every-note-as-fast-as-you-can drummer, I love playing all styles of music - but the word "all" includes fast metal kinda stuff and if I want to be as versatile a player as possible, I shouldn't neglect it. It also helps my foot technique overall of course. And as it's something I can't do but want to do, it's a challenge to myself and something I want to prove to myself I can do, even if I never play a metal gig in my life.
 
Over the years I've, and I'm sure alot of others drummers, have seen plenty of great drummers who did not think they were very good....even when they had excellent chops. IMO, that is good and bad, in a way. If you feel you've "made it"....you can stagnate and never reach your full potential......on the other hand, confidence in your abilities is essential......you have to know the material you're playing.......I've heard it said....if you're thinking about what to play....you have already messed up.

The only practical thing to do is practice, practice, practice and be the best drummer possible
 
longgun said:
Over the years I've, and I'm sure alot of others drummers, have seen plenty of great drummers who did not think they were very good....even when they had excellent chops. IMO, that is good and bad, in a way. If you feel you've "made it"....you can stagnate and never reach your full potential......on the other hand, confidence in your abilities is essential......you have to know the material you're playing.......I've heard it said....if you're thinking about what to play....you have already messed up.

The only practical thing to do is practice, practice, practice and be the best drummer possible
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Damn straight.

On the issue of confidence, do you guys go through phases of "Yeah I'm a frickin' kick-ass drummer" and then "oh man I can't play to save my life?" I tend to swap between the two a lot haha.
 
Talismanis said:
On the issue of confidence, do you guys go through phases of "Yeah I'm a frickin' kick-ass drummer" and then "oh man I can't play to save my life?" I tend to swap between the two a lot haha.
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Yea... usually multiple times within the same practice session :|
 
Age is irrelevant.

Functionality is the question...and in what way.

Some things are harder when we are young and some things are harder when we are old.


...the main thing is enjoying the struggle as much as the accomplishments.

..easier said than done...especially when experience gives you forsight of what to expect...but thats that game isn't it?...planned ignorance of pain and embracing pleasure as though it were the first time...everytime.
 
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