Drum sound comparisons?

Drumsinhisheart

Drumsinhisheart

Silver Member
I did a search here and didn't find anything on the subject. Sorry if this has been asked already.

I am looking for some kind of video (or even research article) which delves into the subject of drum shell construction, bearing edges, etc. and the actual sonic differences when lugs, mounting, heads, hoops and tension devices are all in place. I've seen DW vids on their shells. I've seen others on shells. I want to hear the actual differences when the drums are fully put together - drum to drum, company to company, or the like.

Just wondering if such a comparison video or research article exists.
 
As far as volume of material goes, check Memphis Drum Shop online, they present almost all kits with good tunings and carry many brands and sizes.
 
If you stay here , you will find lengthy and useful discussion on this . I suggest searching the older threads. The Impact of lug sizes, shell plies, wood type, heads, dimensiosn etc on sound is discussed at length on here. As for video/audio its best to just keep searching online, where many sound files complete kits exist like Memphis drum Shop, as suggested above.
 
I've watched dozens and dozens of MDS vids and other shops on youtube. Not exactly what I'm referring to. I'm thinking more the idea of actually just taking, say an 8x12" tom from various lines, or various companies, same head configuration, and recording their sounds to hear the differences, however great or subtle.
 
This is what music stores are for. Most *shudders* Guitar Centers have a maple kit, a birch/bubinga kit, and a poplar kit at least. Between several maple kits, which they also usually have, you can compare bearing edges, depths, shell thickness, etc.

All of the serious side-by-side comparing I have done has been at my house with kits I have bought or borrowed. Conclusions are only as good as the ears interpreting them, and opinions differ greatly. It's best to explore this yourself. Online videos, forums, and blogs are only the very tip of the iceberg when compared to the real life subjective experience...
 
caddywumpus, the thing is with shops, you really can't go around with a drum key tuning every set to the same pitches, employing the same heads. I wouldn't even think about removing heads to check out bearing edges. I'd have employees breathing down my neck. Making my own drums for 20 years I don't find much difference in the way various bearing edges make major sonic/aural variations anyway.
 
Drumsinhisheart said:
Making my own drums for 20 years I don't find much difference in the way various bearing edges make major sonic/aural variations anyway.
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Depends on the shell's ability to respond to input.

The 4 x tom video you sighted wasn't exactly useful. Camera sound, hitting rims, clamped snare drum stands, different shell hardware, different shell constructions (stave & ply), & hardly complimentary tuning either.

We do a ton of totally honest recording, & our latest video compares a range of eight snares across three different shell constructions. Exactly the same tunings, heads, wires, etc, & across at least three tuning ranges. Ok, they're all the same make, but it's difficult to imagine anyone putting the time & money into making truly representative comparison videos across a range of brands. It's a ton of work to do this. We will be releasing a timber species & shell construction comparison video next year. It's in the plan, but I don't have a release date yet. Again, they'll all be our drums. Not only would it be a lot of expense to produce a multi brand video, it would also be incorrect of us to do so. Perhaps something for a magazine or a private individual with a lot of time & money spare.

Comparison video link under my signature if you're interested.
 
To me drums fall into categories that allow me to know pretty much what they will sound like from experience without trying them.

3 ply shell drums with re-rings and round over bearing edges will have a warm tone. These drums really use the shell a great deal because a large area of the drumhead contacts the edge.

Then you have shells that are 6 ply with sharp edges. These drums will be louder and pack more punch. The shell plays less of a roll in the sound because less area of the head contacts the edges.

6 ply shells with rounded edges will be somewhere in between the above two shell types.

I like drums from all of the above categories.
The subtle differences between wood types, brands, etc is a small factor that is subjective and at the mercy of many variables.
Comparing the fine points between drums is endless and it would be impossible to weigh all of the factors when comparing.
In the end doing such a comparison would only make you crazy :)
 
"In the end doing such a comparison would only make you crazy :) "

LOL. Not really. I already know what I will find. I just wondered if anyone put out a video with any kind of comparison.

Snare drums are different animals, really. Most drummers, myself included, tension snare drums for feel more than pitch. But toms and floors generally get tensioned for sweet spot tunings, not bounce off the heads.

Personally, despite any shortcomings of the video I posted I do believe it makes a point. Differences amount to nuances. I'm sick of hype in the drum industry, especially when it comes to their drum shells and what claims are made about them, and their special finishes, special lugs, and all the rest. Making my own drums all these years taught me it's a bunch of bologna. I feel bad, especially for the younger players, who get sucked into all the hype.
 
The psychological factor is an important one to consider. If you perceive that a drum is great because of _________, and because of that perception you play with more feeling than the drum really is better.
I myself like to play my 60's vintage drums. I get a warm feeling inside when I play them. It doesn't matter if they are sonically superior of inferior than newer drums. What matters is that I play them with more inspiration.
Most drummers become attached to the drums that they buy. We all like to think that our drums are special. That is a good positive factor that motivates us.
If it makes a drummer feel better because he buys an expensive drum kit even though there is only a slight difference in the sound from a less expensive drum kit than all is good and everyone wins.
 
Drumsinhisheart said:
caddywumpus, the thing is with shops, you really can't go around with a drum key tuning every set to the same pitches, employing the same heads. I wouldn't even think about removing heads to check out bearing edges. I'd have employees breathing down my neck.
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Wow. What stores do YOU shop at? A drum shop not letting you tune the drums, try a new drum head, or even take one off, has a terrible policy. It would be like a car lot not letting you look under the hood before buying a car. I would certainly let them know that you're taking your business elsewhere from now on.

Drumsinhisheart said:
Making my own drums for 20 years I don't find much difference in the way various bearing edges make major sonic/aural variations anyway.
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Are you for real or just trolling? I am very curious to find out more about these drums you've made that the bearing edges have no effect on the sound...
 
Drumsinhisheart said:
Snare drums are different animals, really. Most drummers, myself included, tension snare drums for feel more than pitch. But toms and floors generally get tensioned for sweet spot tunings, not bounce off the heads.

.
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I tension my snare drum for pitch only. Feel is whatever it is for that pitch. Sweet spot tom tunings sound good to the drummer, but don't carry well. I have to tune my toms a lot tighter for unmiced live playing than the sweet spot allows. They sound weird to the drummer, but 20 feet away they sound like lively toms not dead splats.

This thread is about sonic nuance from a drum kit. Most sonic nuance gets lost as soon as the band is in. Still I appreciate the little differences that different drums exhibit.

Ultimately, like Bob said, it's all about how a certain set makes you feel. So true. I get different feels from different sets. And there are definite tonal differences. If everything I did had the same sonic result, I would have stopped trying long ago. For some of us it's a side venture to drumming, chasing after the best tone possible.
 
I didn't quite understand Drumsinhisheart's comments about bearing edges and and the sound of drums either. I wasn't sure if he meant to say it differently so I didn't call him on it.
Bearing edge cuts make a big difference in drum sound and not a tiny one. That is why I mentioned them in my post.

As Larry stated, I also tune for the sound that I need for both the room that I am in, and the music that I am playing. I most often wind up tuning tighter than my ears would like me to.
When I record I tune for the mic's.

I recently sampled some single ply steam bent drums by Craviotto. I liked their sound and I saw the beauty in them. In the end I decided that they weren't for me. Every drummer finds their own way. I also recently sampled some vintage Gretsch round badge drums and I didn't buy them. I went with a 60's Slingerland kit instead. I can't even tell you exactly why.
 
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Over the years I have experimented with all kinds of bearing edges. I have noticed only nuances to overall sound, drum to drum. This is on maple shells mostly, though I've also done things with stave drums I've made from various woods. But they have all been snare drums. Other non-maple, or maple composites have been minimal in use. But I will say my current set employs drums I have made, as well as manufactured, both maple and composite shells, and I can't tell any difference sitting behind the set. No one else can either when I have asked. So, indeed, I see a lot of hype in the drum industry.

Bearing edges supposedly allow more of the shell to be involved in the sound. I have found about all they do is mute the heads in some way, to incremental degrees which are basically lost when the drum set gets into full play. A drum with lugs attached and all, is almost totally muted and has little true, natural, organic vibration, even hanging the drums with various isolation mounts. It's all about the heads for sound. The cylinder chamber is muted too much. With plywood, the glue also dampens things. That's why Ludwig always said the sound of a drum is more the inner ply than anything else. I tend to agree.

Head choices, depth of shell, and mounting have more to do with drum sound than shells themselves, wood to wood. Metal, acrylic, fiberglass, that's another issue.

As far as live playing and sound systems, that's another matter altogether, and not one I am looking to investigate by virtue of drum sound comparisons.

Whatever floats your boat is fine. That's a personal issue. My issue is the hype of the companies to sell their wares.
 
Drumsinhisheart said:
My issue is the hype of the companies to sell their wares.
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OK fair enough. If you were a drum company, how would you approach advertising your drums?

See what I mean? If you can't use hype, what's left? Yes our drums sound like everybody elses drums?

I have no problem with hype. The world is full of it. It's my responsibility to separate the truth from the fiction. If you know drums, it doesn't matter what anybody says to sell them. For those who get caught up in the hype and get burned for it? Life in the big city. It's unavoidable and it's not going away.

You said you only build snare drums. Is it fair to tar toms with the same brush? Toms and snares are headed and tuned differently from each other. The little differences may show up more on toms than snares. I crank all my snares tight, so the little differences might get lost in the tension. But toms aren't like that. What do you think?
 
No, I didn't say I only make snare drums. The stave drums I have made have been snare drums.

Your 'life in the big city' might imply everyone lives in cities. But, of course, they do not. And to say big city attitudes must prevail in the drum manufacturing industry to sell their products is an opinion I would not share for ANY product manufactured. Drums were not always sold with hype like today. Most ads were more the nature of who played the drums to get people to buy them. The whole 'our shell' is different and better than others is a newer development in the advertising of the instrument. "Our finish" allows the drum to breathe better is so stupid it's insulting.

I'd rather have honesty than hype. I'd rather have straight facts than silly foolishness. But, that's just me, I guess. And if I didn't make my own drums I might not know any better. But I do.
 
There are a lot of things I disagree with on this thread as well as things I agree with. I think.... I Know*** that anything you do to a drum shell changes the way it sounds. Some things more than others. First their is the shell material. I have tried a bunch of different drums and from personal experience softer porous woods have a thuddy characteristic where more dense woods sing better. When you get into the dense woods each type of wood really has its own characteristic. drum lugs and how many lugs you have also play a huge difference. Some people like the extra resonance from a shell that has not been drilled others like the different characteristics of a drilled shell and double point, single point, or center mounted lugs. The bearing edge in my personal opinion has the most to do with the shell. The angle its cut at has a "fine Tuning" aspect, where the edge is placed (closer to the center, closer to the outside) and how much of the bearing edge is touching the head is really the definitive characteristic of a drum. and also you can throw re rings in there as well. don't get me started on mounting systems and where on the mounting post you hang the drum. Or what kind of floor tom legs and feet you have.

Also I tune my snare to sound not feel. If I tuned my drums to how they feel every drum would be so tight and choked nobody would want to hear it.

sorry for the rant I understand that everybody has a different opinion on tuning but discussing what does and does not have an effect on shells, those are facts not opinions.
 
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The issue for me has been truly noticeable differences, rather than nuances, especially differences when the whole set is engaged.

Anybody can do a simple test. Rest a naked shell on a finger and thump it. You get the pitch. But then, just hold the edge of the shell with just a thumb and forefinger and the pitch turns into a thud. While the difference between shell-length lugs and small lugs, dble point, single, etc, may make a difference, just how noticeable is that difference drum to drum in set playing? I've had it all. Hype. It ends up more an issue of weight than sound.

Like the test shows, despite flaws, all things being equal he took Maple, Birch, Bubinga, and Cherry (hardwoods), same heads, obviously different lugs, I have no idea what the bearing edges are. I might assume they are different, or all the same. What actual, noticeable difference is there between the sound of those toms? I think the tuning was kind of high, but either way, all things being equal. Of course, I mean listening through decent speakers, headphones, whatever, not laptop speakers. Although a laptop bar does a decent job. I hear no major differences. And certainly nothing that would shine through when a whole set is engaged, or a band is playing.

I tune my toms for sound, sure, but snare drum, feel all the way for the music I play. Different music, maybe sound if I'm just laying into backbeats.

Anyway, just saying. There's too much worthless hype in the drum industry.

Out.
 
Drumsinhisheart said:
Anyway, just saying. There's too much worthless hype in the drum industry.
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I have to agree that there is some worthless hype in the drum industry. Most people can't tell the difference however for me I want my drum to sound perfect (too me) and people do notice. Maybe the average listener does not. But musicians can generally hear the differences. For the current band I am playing in I can tune all of my drums the same. However I do still have 1 kit that I think sounds more perfect to my ears. And it is the only kit I get complements on. Funny thing about that is that it is my cheapest kit (Gretsch catalina jazz) That I worked on the bearing edges and sealed the insides with Tung oil. It also has centered lugs. For some reason every drum set I have ever played I seem to be able to tune my sound in easier with center lugs Ex. Club dates. Bust people are not a huge fan of them, though they are making a come back, for me they just work. If I don't bring that set to practice and gigs my band members actually get mad.
 
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