Vintage Rogers kit questions

I'm looking at what might be a 1960-63 Rogers Showcase(?) for sale from a guy who bought it used in 1969 as a teenager. During one early 1970's winter, the wrap froze in storage and he had it refinished in lacquer, and apparently the guy that did the work rehung the toms using a different mechanism.

The tom sizes are 12, 13, and 16". The snare from what I can tell is a 1969 Ludwig Super Sensitive. the only other notable piece beside vintage Zildjian A hats and crashes is a Paiste 20" 2002 black label ride.

So my questions are- can anyone identify the model? How is the tom rack modified? and what is the approximate value of refinished and modified Rogers kits? He's asking $800, which if original and in good shape ! would guess is a steal, but not being original, this seems pretty steep.

My opinion is, with snare and cymbals included, $800 is a good deal. Sounds like you care about re-sale value.
Yes you can sell this kit and cymbals and get your money back no problem.

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IMO, that's a "players kit" and not really a museum piece since the original wrap is gone. After a quick glance over at Reverb.com and looking at Rogers kits, that price seems fair to me.

With that said, I'll be the first to say that you need to go play them. Just because it's a fair deal, you have to ask if it's a fair deal to you. I know if I had $800 to spend on drums, I wouldn't be looking at a vintage Rogers drum set (but I'm not really into the sound of vintage drums that much). YMMV. I'm curious as to what others have to say.

I had a Rogers Holiday kit back in the 70's. As far as the tom mounting system goes, from the tom tree up looks exactly like what I had -- genuine Rogers, but I'm not sure if that tom tree was offered in the 60's or came along in the 70's. The bass drum tom mount does not look like the Rogers mount I had. John Ploughman (on this forum) is a walking Rogers encyclopedia. If he doesn't show up here, perhaps you could PM him.

As far as value, if the drums are in good shape (solid, round, good edges), with the Supersensitive and cymbals included, I don't see you ever losing money on this deal.

800.00 for everything is a great deal, the five drums with the HH stand and the flat base stand is very fair, throw in the other stands takes it in to good deal territory.If the snare is 6.5 deep that adds a lot of value probably at least 100.00 over a 5" depth.

The tom mount and arms looks correct,the tom post reciever mounted on the bass looks non original,I am thinking Slingerland,a couple of the cymbal stands look like Slingerland also.

I think this kit was a single mounted 12 "tom and someone added a 13 and changed out the tom mount at that point.

Def 63 or later,beavertail lugs started then.The inside of the drums should have paper tags, if the tag says Cleveland, puts the drum 1963-65,Dayton would be 1966-68.

This was a Buddy Rich Headliner set up. Build would be 63-68. What do the paper tags inside the drums have to say? Serial numbers?

It came as a 4 piece. The second tom is an add on. It is a butchered mess. 800... If you sell the snare, cymbals, miscellaneous naughty bits... and get 5 kite flyers for that stuff, you have a set for 300 that is worth 4 and will sound like a grand. Providing of course the Exteriors do not indicate the sonic condition of the drums.
This is a Swingtime configuration, 4 piece....... The original tom mounts and arm are shown. Your Headliner would use a cymbal L arm on a different type bracket that the one you see in this picture.

Thanks John, and the rest of you guys. That clears up a lot. Unfortunately the interiors were painted, too, so no tags remain.

I'm less interested in resale value than sound quality, but I don't want to grossly overpay for a kit that's not worth much, either. It sounded "okay" when noodling with it in his garage, but the heads are old and warn and I found it difficult to judge it's potential. Similarly, the Starclassic I play now sounded like crap when first tried it, but new heads and a few hours of fiddling with it really brought it to life. However, I knew it had potential when I bought it.

I live in Alaska and surprisingly used drum equipment doesn't have very high resale value here, despite everything else costing an arm and a leg. So I doubt I could piece it out to the shell pack and offset much of the cost. I might get something for the snare and the 2002, but the vintage Zildjians don't fetch much and the stands wouldn't for sure.

The seller is a really nice guy who obviously has a lot of sentimental attachment to this kit. I'll send him this link so he at least knows what he's loved all these years. I appreciate all the help!

Sentimental value is not saleable. As a buyer it means nothing to me.

It adds nothing to the value of the drums.

If your resale market is poor... avoid this sale.

I am no Rogers guru. But I did shop a lot to find a couple of Ludwig kits.

I came across a lot of kits with anything from minor to major mods. Once I had the original unmodified drums I was looking for I spoke with the incredibly knowledgeable folks at Rupps and asked about putting a rail mount on my bass. They said don't do it because it would seriously reduce the value of the drum.

If you are looking at anything vintage then unmodified is the key. These are grossly modified. No wrap, extra holes, different mounts, painted.

That eliminates the vintage value. So now you have to look at the value of the pieces. You might be able to get your money out of the pieces if you sold them off but is that what you are looking for?

If you are set on Rogers I'd keep looking. You would pay a ton to bring these back to original condition and then they would just be refurbished.

As stated above you should play them if you are really interested in buying them. I cannot imagine that the bare shells sound better that they did coming out of the Rogers factory. Somebody has what you are looking for, you just have not found them yet.

I can't add anything more to ID the kit than John did, he is our Rogers encyclopedia.

I thought it was a pretty good deal till I saw the interiors. Resale is going to be very low on a refinished modded kit. Rogers guys want the original wrap with the factory mounts. If it were me, I'd offer him 6.

I've passed on it. Thanks again for all of your insights and advice.

Popsicle Sticks said:

I've passed on it. Thanks again for all of your insights and advice.

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Good move.

Just because something's a good deal on paper doesn't always mean that it's a good deal for you.

Hey Popsicle Sticks, check these out:

http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/5751862478.html

Don't know what it would take to get them to Alaska but this fellow is accustomed to shipping kits.

Pylot said:

Hey Popsicle Sticks, check these out:

http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/5751862478.html

Don't know what it would take to get them to Alaska but this fellow is accustomed to shipping kits.

Click to expand...

Oh my !!!
I would love to own this kit.

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Hello - I have been eyeing an early 60s Rogers Holiday Cleveland era in Mardi Gras finish locally for quite sometime. The condition from the ad was stunning. To make the pot sweeter, it is a 5 piece 20
12 13 14 (matching snare) 16. I have been able to research as much as I could and finally saved money to engage.

I called him up and he was very kind. Moved to my neck about 5 years ago, was from NJ in his mid 60s was a flea market dealer for a large market called “English-town something” (not sure) back in the 80s-90s. That is how he acquired these. No cracks in shells, wrap, and no extra holes. I even asked about the bearing edges. He was kind to where he would send any pictures that I requested. I had him take some images but the quality was from flip phone. So I proceeded to go back and forth with questions. Soon, all my questions were answered; and, it was now up to my newly acquired education as my only guide.
I arranged a meeting to see them in person a few days later, which he suggested a local mall parking lot.

Upon arrival, it took everything I had to keep composure. I have not only never seen anything like it in person, the wrap was gorgeous and very smooth like. Immediately, I saw he had two coated ambassadors top and bottom on everything. He stated no bearing edge issues earlier... I did not take a key (key lesson here). So I had to look in the air vents; and, inside the grey interiors, I saw on each and every shell, a perfect squared tag Holiday Cleveland. Two toms had 4 digit serials and three had 5 digits that were 31xxx. Snare had clock face, all B and B lugs with only 1 cracked on floor tom. Floor had one knobby for cymbal arm, as well as the bass drum for a double SwivoMatic, as to which the left arm was stripped (I’m good with this). This checked all the boxes for me as far as dating went.

Issues onsite I had, were that two toms had the large dense confetti with sparse galaxy (these to me looked like the original), the bass floor and snare have a smaller less dense confetti spread with a more dense galaxy making the shell hue look almost nightish or purple.

Taking inventory, it all seemed too perfect, and this in mind, onset the realization I may have gotten over my head in open and vintage trade.

So my concerns are:
Is there any way this could be a repro or significant remodel?
As far as the wraps, I know Walopus and Precision made wraps in this finish. Does anyone have these wraps that can discern one way or another?
Was Precision an original supplier during this time as their company dates to the early 60s?
Also, notice the Rogers logo on bass drum. To me it looks a little close to the mounting bracket. Or was this a factory inconsistency that I should live with. I notice on most other online images of Rogers logos, they have a little gap that seems standard maybe 1” away.

Thank you for your response.

Ransan: Go to the Rogers group on Facebook. Ask them. They are very knowledgeable and they will help you.


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My apologies, I have no fb account to post.
I did look in that group as well from an outside point of view.
On that note, theres a guy on the Ludwig vintage group who sells cool gear on his own I would love to get in touch with.
Thanks Jim.

Picture quality is much better here than at the VDF.

The two toms have numbers in 4 digit range.... this would put the drums in 1960. Three numbers are in five digit 31xxx range... this would land in 62.
The color difference is quite noticeable. Pulling the heads will show rewrap or not on the unmatching members.

12.12.16.20 was the common set up at the time. 12/13... much later. The set up would have been Top Hat.

Mardi Gras is rare. There was a run of wrap made a couple years ago, it was expensive. I do not know the pattern well enough to say.

you can go to Drumarchive.com and download catalogs from 58-63 that will help satisfy your concerns.