drummer-russ
Gold Member
Seems that a sub should expect to get paid unless it is an opportunity to significantly help you meet your musical goals.
You guys might appreciate this one:
We got paid for a charity show a few weeks ago when we expected not to. The venue/organizer insisted after our set! I put my portion right back in the donation pile, but it was still cool to see the venue stick up for us like that and give us some door money even though it wasn't agreed.
Big +1 for this, though for me, #3 is a distant third. I've known too many people who got hung up on the money angle to the point where it seemed like their only driver. Even if my band gets paid $100, which is much higher than average, that still isn't squat in the grand scheme of things, so I've taken to the idea that it's all charity work.
Taking money (and all the weirdness that surrounds it) right out of the equation makes playing in a band so much more enjoyable. I know I'm in the minority here, but that's what works for me.
Quite possibly I am taking work away from drummers that gets paid. But if I am, they have to up their act.
It wouldn't matter how much they "up their act" if they're not willing to work for nothing and that's what the pub owner is used to paying to those who will take it.
I always try to look at the big picture.
I'd done plenty of paid gigs where I wasn't happy, and not-paid gigs that were an awesome time.
Not all Drummers are professional drummers. Some of us play for fun. I play in a pub most Friday's for free. I have tremendous freedom because I am not obliged to be available every Friday. This to me is worth more than what I could get paid. Quite possibly I am taking work away from drummers that gets paid. But if I am, they have to up their act.
It wouldn't matter how much they "up their act" if they're not willing to work for nothing and that's what the pub owner is used to paying to those who will take it.
That is precisely the attitude that makes it difficult. If you play in a pub, to people, for entertainment, you should get paid. If not for yourself, damn well have some respect for those who come behind you and have to deal with venues and people who now have a mindset that it's work that can be done for free and so they shouldn't necessarily need to pay.
You're just cheapening and disrespecting working musicians and guys that need to get paid to live by not giving a shit and saying they have to 'up their act'. It has nothing to do with it. You do it for free, so they won't pay someone expecting $150 or whatever each, no matter how great the difference is. As Bermuda said, it sets a precedent.
The work you do during the day, what would you say to people if guys started walking in off the street and doing your job for free just because they had some free time on their hands and wanted to do it for a bit of fun? It makes your job harder, there's less work, and now your employers start expecting you to do it cheaper or for free....How do you react?
It might not matter to you, but when it's your livelihood and business, it matters.
That is precisely the attitude that makes it difficult. If you play in a pub, to people, for entertainment, you should get paid. If not for yourself, damn well have some respect for those who come behind you and have to deal with venues and people who now have a mindset that it's work that can be done for free and so they shouldn't necessarily need to pay.
You're just cheapening and disrespecting working musicians and guys that need to get paid to live by not giving a shit and saying they have to 'up their act'. It has nothing to do with it. You do it for free, so they won't pay someone expecting $150 or whatever each, no matter how great the difference is. As Bermuda said, it sets a precedent.
The work you do during the day, what would you say to people if guys started walking in off the street and doing your job for free just because they had some free time on their hands and wanted to do it for a bit of fun? It makes your job harder, there's less work, and now your employers start expecting you to do it cheaper or for free....How do you react?
It might not matter to you, but when it's your livelihood and business, it matters.
Price to be paid for doing a job which is also an enjoyable hobby for some unfortunately. Your comparison with 'normal' work is flawed. Playing music isn't 'normal' work (or maybe 'conventional' would be a better word?), even though a professional musician would say it is (ie. to them).
You expect to be paid for doing something that some people genuinely find really enjoyable and would probably pay to do. Good luck in your chosen career path, but don't be so judgemental towards people who decided at some point in life to get a 'sensible' job and do the music thing for pleasure.
It's the dream job...to get paid for playing music. But, the problem you are rallying against here is the flip side of that coin.
The work you do during the day, what would you say to people if guys started walking in off the street and doing your job for free just because they had some free time on their hands and wanted to do it for a bit of fun? It makes your job harder, there's less work, and now your employers start expecting you to do it cheaper or for free....How do you react?
It might not matter to you, but when it's your livelihood and business, it matters.
If you were offering a better product that got the venue more money from the show, I doubt they'd go with the free guys. If I want to play for free in a bar because I think it's fun, it's really, really not my responsibility to look out for the other musicians who want to get paid, but are somehow not getting the gig even though my un-professional self who doesn't even get paid is the competition.
In a free market, this kind of thing will tend to work itself out. Mind you, it doesn't always work out to everyone's benefit... Thing is, the only person who really needs to worry about that is the venue owner who stands to make or lose money by owning the place where musicians can play to a crowd.
I mean, we don't really think that there are tons of bands playing the same venues every week for free, right? It's usually more of a one-off thing, and sometimes new bands need to get out there while they don't really have much to compete with the established bands.
This really drove it home for me. I am definitely on the side of don't work for free or it's synonym, exposure. I'll give em some exposure.