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  #1  
Old 11-08-2018, 04:20 AM
Michaelj Michaelj is offline
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Default Most important piece of hardware

I'm looking to replace/purchase some new hardware. I've currently got a snare stand and a couple of cymbal stands from the Yamaha 700 series. I love this hardware and know it has a great reputation. What I need right now is a hi hat and a kick pedal. My first instinct is to buy a 700 series hardware pack. I could use the extra cymbal stands, and even the spare snare stand could come in handy for a practice pad.

But the big question mark is the kick pedal. Is it usable? I don't need anything super high end. I've been looking a bit at the DW3000 and the Iron Cobra 600. I can see the extra features that might justify, say going up to the DW5000 or the Iron Cobra 900. But my question is, are the 3000/ 600 significantly better pedals than the Yamaha 700 series pedal?

I'm going to spend some time trying these out, but just thought people might have some personal experience with a few of these items.

(for what it's worth, I have a set of iron cobra double kick pedals at the moment. Got them used, and they've had a bit of repair work done to them before they came to me. I don't really use double kick much, but I've also always found these pedals to be quite sluggish. Not sure if that's a normal thing, or just due to the age and condition of the pedals.)
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

If looking to save $$.... well you have an IC already, just remove the slave and other pedal and 2nd beater and you have a single pedal. The IC are quite smooth fast pedals. They are heavy, but maybe your feels sluggish the way it is setup- spring tension, beater adjustment...
I've had that entry Yamaha pedal, its fine, surely usable. But you may outgrow that.

I do recommend the Yamaha 700 hi hat stand. Or the IC600 pedal, if looking to buy new things.
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:48 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

I've been using the cheapest Yamaha pedal for a long time-- I don't know if it's the 700 series or what. It's great-- I play the thing and it hits the drum. It might not have some of the adjustments available on the more expensive pedals, and the build might be lighter. It hasn't been a problem. I play it a lot and haven't felt the need to replace it or do anything at all to it in ~ ten years.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

I think the Yamaha 700 stuff is great, even the pedal. It'll last for years.

But to me, the most important piece of hardware is the throne. You're the heaviest part of the kit - if what you're sitting on is substandard, it will affect your groove. What kind of throne are you using now? That's the one thing I won't skimp on. If I'm doing serious work, my big heavy duty thrones go on those jobs (I have a DW 5000 throne and a Pearl D1000 - both heavy spindle-type thrones). I could get by with lighter weight, but the stability could be an issue over a four hour gig.

One day I'll have a nice canister throne made to my specific height requirement.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
But to me, the most important piece of hardware is the throne. You're the heaviest part of the kit - if what you're sitting on is substandard, it will affect your groove.
Funny you mention that, because the next thing I buy will actually be a throne. I've never had a good quality throne, they've always been thin, or rickety.

I've narrowed it down to two choices. I sat in a roc n soc spindle with the saddle seat, and loved the comfort and stability. I'm also waiting for a Tama 1st chair to come into the store so I can check it out. It's the saddle seat cloth top with hydraulics. I'm leaning towards the Tama since it's a bit cheaper, and certainly on par for quality but I'll see how it feels to sit in.
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by Michaelj View Post
Funny you mention that, because the next thing I buy will actually be a throne. I've never had a good quality throne, they've always been thin, or rickety.

I've narrowed it down to two choices. I sat in a roc n soc spindle with the saddle seat, and loved the comfort and stability. I'm also waiting for a Tama 1st chair to come into the store so I can check it out. It's the saddle seat cloth top with hydraulics. I'm leaning towards the Tama since it's a bit cheaper, and certainly on par for quality but I'll see how it feels to sit in.
I love my Roc N Soc. The seat itself is very solid yet comfortable. But not only do you need the spindle height adjustment, but you need to be able to lock the seat from spinning too. A seat that allows you to spin while playing will eventually give you lower back problems - so a drum throne also needs to be solid like a good wooden chair.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

If you can't do it with a DW 3000, you can't do it period.

IMO it's a way under rated pedal.

And don't cheap out on the throne. If your kit stays at home, I like the bounce and shock absorption that the hydraulic seats offer. For a gig, I use a spindle. Because the seat top comes off a spindle, unlike a hydraulic. It makes it much easier to transport. Plus I had a hydraulic fail on me at a gig, so it's been spindle from then on at gigs.

Bo suggests locking the seat so it can't rotate. That must work well for him.

I don't subscribe to that. The way I figure it if my hips want to twist, like going for the 2nd floor tom, the rotating seat top will offer almost no resistance to the twist. But if the seat were locked tight, and my hips twist, I will have the friction of my weight and my pants on the seat top, which IMO would be worse for my particular back.

Everyone's different.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
I've been using the cheapest Yamaha pedal for a long time-- I don't know if it's the 700 series or what. It's great-- I play the thing and it hits the drum. It might not have some of the adjustments available on the more expensive pedals, and the build might be lighter. It hasn't been a problem. I play it a lot and haven't felt the need to replace it or do anything at all to it in ~ ten years.
I'll second that.

I used a Yamaha FP6210 pedal for the longest time and it was everything I could ask for in a pedal. I bring it to gigs as a spare and would use it again in a heartbeat.

TBH, I haven't encountered anything yet made by Yamaha that is substandard. I have complete and utter confidence in their products.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2018, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

I just bought an Iron Cobra 600 pedal, and I couldn't be happier with it. In any way that it matters, it's like an IC 900, minus the Cobra Coil, which can be purchased for about $25 and installed into the 600 base plate.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:38 AM
Michaelj Michaelj is offline
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Bo suggests locking the seat so it can't rotate. That must work well for him.

I don't subscribe to that. The way I figure it if my hips want to twist, like going for the 2nd floor tom, the rotating seat top will offer almost no resistance to the twist. But if the seat were locked tight, and my hips twist, I will have the friction of my weight and my pants on the seat top, which IMO would be worse for my particular back.
Itís an interesting discussion, and Iím not sure on my opinion of this yet. Without really playing, just sitting on the roc n soc spindle, it felt really solid and comfortable. I need to spend more time mucking around behind the drums with the nitro to get more of a sense of whether I like the feel or not.
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by Michaelj View Post
It’s an interesting discussion, and I’m not sure on my opinion of this yet. Without really playing, just sitting on the roc n soc spindle, it felt really solid and comfortable. I need to spend more time mucking around behind the drums with the nitro to get more of a sense of whether I like the feel or not.
My argument against letting the seat spin while playing is that now your lower back is working harder to keep your body straight because your feet are also doing things. Sometimes this leaves your low back in a slightly twisted position while playing. When the seat doesn’t spin, then your back isn’t having to work that hard to stay straight and eliminating any issues. But if your like Larry and you need it, then more power to you. It’s never worked for me.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelj View Post
I've never had a good quality throne, they've always been thin, or rickety.

I've narrowed it down to two choices. I sat in a roc n soc spindle with the saddle seat, and loved the comfort and stability. I'm also waiting for a Tama 1st chair to come into the store so I can check it out. It's the saddle seat cloth top with hydraulics. I'm leaning towards the Tama since it's a bit cheaper, and certainly on par for quality but I'll see how it feels to sit in.
I was the same until a couple years back, had the Pearl speed seat for years, only when you get a decent stool do you realise the difference it makes. I don't suffer with numb arse anymore!

I got the Ludwig Atlas round throne to match the rest of the kit. Blue/Olive of course :). All of the top end stools are comfy as hell compared to the budget ones.

I'd vote for the spindle screw thrones as well, less to go wrong. Having said that I've got Tama hardware that's nearly 20 years old and still going strong and there's guys on here who still have the 80s stands you could go to war with.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
My argument against letting the seat spin while playing is that now your lower back is working harder to keep your body straight because your feet are also doing things. Sometimes this leaves your low back in a slightly twisted position while playing. When the seat doesn’t spin, then your back isn’t having to work that hard to stay straight and eliminating any issues. But if your like Larry and you need it, then more power to you. It’s never worked for me.
I think playing heel down or heel up is the difference here. If your heels are in the air, yea, I could definitely see why you would want the seat top locked. There is nothing to stabilize the torso with the heels in the air. It seems like it would expose the lower back to possible torquing. So a locked seat top does seem like it would be better for heel up playing. I have both heels down when I play. Both. (heel down hi hat was a challenge to get down) so there is no way to twist unless I want to. This completely explains the difference, I think. I could never understand your logic, but now I get it. You do play heels up I'm assuming? If not then my theory is blown.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I think playing heel down or heel up is the difference here. If your heels are in the air, yea, I could definitely see why you would want the seat top locked. There is nothing to stabilize the torso with the heels in the air. It seems like it would expose the lower back to possible torquing. So a locked seat top does seem like it would be better for heel up playing. I have both heels down when I play. Both. (heel down hi hat was a challenge to get down) so there is no way to twist unless I want to. This completely explains the difference, I think. I could never understand your logic, but now I get it. You do play heels up I'm assuming? If not then my theory is blown.
Your theory works with me Uncle Larry. I am mostly heel up, and my seat is locked. If it twists, it screws up my balance when using both feet. Like Bo, I to desire a canister throne.
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I think playing heel down or heel up is the difference here. If your heels are in the air, yea, I could definitely see why you would want the seat top locked. There is nothing to stabilize the torso with the heels in the air. It seems like it would expose the lower back to possible torquing. So a locked seat top does seem like it would be better for heel up playing. I have both heels down when I play. Both. (heel down hi hat was a challenge to get down) so there is no way to twist unless I want to. This completely explains the difference, I think. I could never understand your logic, but now I get it. You do play heels up I'm assuming? If not then my theory is blown.
Yep I do! Itís like Iím dancing in my seat as opposed to being anchored to the ground. Thatís why we argue about this - I understand now. Carry on.

The ultimate throne for me with be one of those canister thrones, which Iíd get if they were cheap enough and height adjustable.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Yep I do! Itís like Iím dancing in my seat as opposed to being anchored to the ground. Thatís why we argue about this - I understand now. Carry on.

The ultimate throne for me with be one of those canister thrones, which Iíd get if they were cheap enough and height adjustable.
Finally, we figured it out. Heel up, throne top locked.
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Old 11-10-2018, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Finally, we figured it out. Heel up, throne top locked.
The "A-ha" moment. It sounds like it makes sense.
I always played heels down with a rotating seat and single pedal.
When I started learning with a double pedal, and doing some heel up stuff,
I also started having some balance problems.
I eventually struggled through it, but this discussion has got me wondering if locking the throne
would bring some extra gains, or make things easier.
I'm going to give it a try.

About the pedal. I've got a couple lower cost Yamaha pedals, and some higher end ones as well.
It depends what you're doing, but for most things, the lower cost one will work just fine.

And like opentune says, you could try to use your IC as a single.
If it still feels sluggish after you've adjusted it, maybe it's time for a new one.
Pedals can last a long time if they're taken care of. But they won't last forever.
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
The "A-ha" moment. It sounds like it makes sense.
I always played heels down with a rotating seat and single pedal.
When I started learning with a double pedal, and doing some heel up stuff,
I also started having some balance problems.
I eventually struggled through it, but this discussion has got me wondering if locking the throne
would bring some extra gains, or make things easier.
I'm going to give it a try.

About the pedal. I've got a couple lower cost Yamaha pedals, and some higher end ones as well.
It depends what you're doing, but for most things, the lower cost one will work just fine.

And like opentune says, you could try to use your IC as a single.
If it still feels sluggish after you've adjusted it, maybe it's time for a new one.
Pedals can last a long time if they're taken care of. But they won't last forever.
YES YES YES! I hope you find it useful. Bo already has.

I love this kind of nuts and bolts stuff.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

I have the heaviest Gibraltar cymbal and snare stands. I don't regret bying them, they're great for home, and sometimes they're really needed, but I'd like to have some lighter stuff and even lighter still.

You can't really go wrong with Yamaha and the 700 stuff is rock solid, light, durable and generally plenty.

When I get my smaller kits I'd want the option of something even lighter, like the Crosstown stuff.

Even if I have different tastes in everything else and not so impressed with their business choices I'd say when it comes to hardware, Yamaha is hard to beat. Probably the best in the business.

With pedals and hats I've had DW 5000AD3s for years. The 9000s that I've had for a couple of years feel like an upgrade now, but pedals are all about personal taste. I love mine, so I accept the weight, but they are heavy. That's where it ends for me with DW, though. Unless you particularly like one of their seats or something I'm not really a fan.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
....
With pedals and hats I've had DW 5000AD3s for years. The 9000s that I've had for a couple of years feel like an upgrade now, but pedals are all about personal taste. I love mine, so I accept the weight, but they are heavy. That's where it ends for me with DW, though. Unless you particularly like one of their seats or something I'm not really a fan.
I've got a DW 9000 too, but haven't used it much lately.
Compared to the direct drive Yamaha I use, the DW feels heavy as a brick. LOL.
A well built, powerful, nice and smooth brick that glides on ball bearings,
but the weight difference is substantial any way you look at it.

Yes - pedals are very individual things,
and there's really no substitute for trying different ones out to see if they suit you.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:00 AM
Michaelj Michaelj is offline
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Default Re: Most important piece of hardware

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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I've got a DW 9000 too, but haven't used it much lately.
Compared to the direct drive Yamaha I use, the DW feels heavy as a brick. LOL.
A well built, powerful, nice and smooth brick that glides on ball bearings,
but the weight difference is substantial any way you look at it.
I've mostly just been thinking DW and Tama as far as pedals go, but I'll certainly look into the Yamaha pedals. They don't seem to get much attention, and so I never would have really given it a thought. While trying out pedals I'll definitely be sure to keep the Yamaha in the mix as well.
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