I think the Velvets influence happens through The Stooges, which Cale produced and the MC5. Both did influence all of those early punk bands more directly then the Velvets. But where the Velvets were most influential was not in the guitar playing or drumming. It was the lyrical content. They sang about Heroin addiction, scoring drugs, S &M, homo-eroticism, nihilism, death, suicide, and later Reed sang about things like racism, child abuse, hookers and transvestites. A whole seedy underground of life that really hadn't been part of popular music, well not since the Weimar Republic. He also mythologized rock and roll in the song of the same title, long before Ozzy screamed Rock and roll is my religion and my love.
Also the influence of minimalism in rock that informs bands from The Stooges and Talking Head through U2, Nirvana, Radiohead and Coldplay started with The Velvets. I think at one point it became cool to say you were influenced by The Velvets. But you can hear it in Talking Heads and The Cars so I wouldn't disparage what The Velvets actually accomplished.
The Kraken wakes
Much has been said. I am still a bit sleepy but, Ken, I agree with that.
Wy, fact is that two great rock artists - Lou Reed and John Cale - loved the "drummer with the technical proficiency of a caveman with the flu on a bad day". She suited their purposes, and a suitable drummer is a good drummer in my books, or at least good enough. I can't diss any drummer who has made a career from it, because I never did, and especially when they are pioneers of female rock drumming! Even if I took nothing from her, she's one of my forebearers.
It's understandable that some skilled artists have no interest in those involved with minimalism and primitivism. Interestingly, when you look at the WS and VU, each has at least one strong male musician with an interest in those areas with a very limited, untrained female drummer. Thing is, you don't want to bring in a strong drummer into a band devoted to primitivism because 1) he - almost invariably
he - will get bored and frustrated and 2) he will always want to push to add "interesting" things that will spoil the overall effect. In the end, it's not a good match ... a good drummer would quickly leave that situation.
The question then becomes, what is the attraction of primitivism to accomplished performers like John Cale and Jack White? My guess is a desire to get to the essence, stripped away of all artifice and pretence. Straight from the heart with no filters ... which, of course, is what the punks were on about. Personally, I enjoy stylish artifice and pretence but I enjoy primitivism too ... they just press different buttons.
Brew, if the Velvets had no connection with the punks does that mean there is no link between Art Blakey and Brian Blade?
Todd, being a "placeholder" (nice term BTW) for a groundbreaking band isn't a bad role. There was already barely enough room for Lou & John so if Moe had it in her head to "add" to the music it may well have at best been rendered impotent, at worst a distraction (although drummer listeners would have preferred it haha). As I said, her hypnotic ostinato in
Venus was perfect for the song and the racing heartbeat drumming in
Heroin is iconic. Having said that, I like Lou's bombastic full band version on
Rock'n'Roll Animal even more
