24" x 14" or 16" kickdrum

What! And mine isn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure sounds like it is. :) What did you get special 20" boards or something. :p
Yours might be, I'm not sure. Are Saturn bass drums available in different depths? If so, does the construction alter at all from one depth to another? If the answer to the first question is yes, & the answer to the second question is no, then you have your answer :)
 
that's a good question... what is it about the construction that caters to that depth?... thicker, thinner?... or like sticks said "20 inch boards"... seems to me the size differences would create a universal change in each drum regardless of construction.. but what do i know?.. i have a 14x18 kick that sounds pretty good and i can't see myself going over a 14x20
 
Yours might be, I'm not sure. Are Saturn bass drums available in different depths? If so, does the construction alter at all from one depth to another? If the answer to the first question is yes, & the answer to the second question is no, then you have your answer :)
This is starting to fall under the baffle them with B.S. category. :)
 
This is starting to fall under the baffle them with B.S. category. :)

No... no it really isn't baffling at all. It might be a rhetorical question, because KIS knows that production drum sets generally use the same shells, lug quantity, etc.

He's asking you, for instance, does Mapex make 20, 22, and 24 inch, with different depths. The second question being are there any differences in the drums. For instance, does the 20 inch drum have more or less lugs than the bigger bass drums, and are the smaller bass drums thinner or thicker. If there is no difference between the the bigger and smaller bass drums then you have your answer.
 
To the OP,

The best thing you can do is to try both depths out. I owned 22x16 bass drum and it had a fairly clear attack, and moderate amount of "boominess". I think both would have the articulation to play double bass patterns on it.
 
No... no it really isn't baffling at all. It might be a rhetorical question, because KIS knows that production drum sets generally use the same shells, lug quantity, etc.

He's asking you, for instance, does Mapex make 20, 22, and 24 inch, with different depths. The second question being are there any differences in the drums. For instance, does the 20 inch drum have more or less lugs than the bigger bass drums, and are the smaller bass drums thinner or thicker. If there is no difference between the the bigger and smaller bass drums then you have your answer.
He hasn't told me how it is actually done or if anyone actually does it, or how it really makes a noticeable difference. Do you know, or are you just poop disturbing. :)
 
I don't know what that last sentence means. Thats not a phrase. I refuse to believe any real human being says that but anyway...

I will not pretend to be as knowledgeable as a person who has a patented drum design. But from my understanding, a bigger drum would require more lugs to get a more accurate tuning. More lugs would also make the drum more focused and have less sustain (relatively). Also, a bigger drum would probably require thicker shells for strength concerns as well as sound. Thicker shells would slightly raise the shell's pitch and be less resonant(easier to control).

Just to be clear, I really like Saturns and know their great drums. But I would be surprised if there were any major differences between in shell thickness, lugs, etc, between there 20 ich offering and there 24 inch offering.
 
I don't know what that last sentence means. Thats not a phrase. I refuse to believe any real human being says that but anyway...

I will not pretend to be as knowledgeable as a person who has a patented drum design. But from my understanding, a bigger drum would require more lugs to get a more accurate tuning. More lugs would also make the drum more focused and have less sustain (relatively). Also, a bigger drum would probably require thicker shells for strength concerns as well as sound. Thicker shells would slightly raise the shell's pitch and be less resonant(easier to control).

Just to be clear, I really like Saturns and know their great drums. But I would be surprised if there were any major differences between in shell thickness, lugs, etc, between there 20 ich offering and there 24 inch offering.
Now I'm not a real human being. Good night.
 
Now I'm not a real human being. Good night.

Relax man. I'm just bustin your balls. But, I honestly don't know what that means. Though from the context I feel like I was justified as I believe you were saying that I am trolling or something.

So what was the topic again? lol.
 
OK until now I have not chimed in on this …

A few years ago I was involved in the design of bass guitar speaker cabinets; let’s just say that we had some great designs with some interesting innovations enough to get a full six page review in a respected Bass magazine.

Every parameter is important in bass cabinet design as you are dealing with air charged by a driver often call a speaker. How one sets up how the air within that cabinet reacts with the speaker is subject to a series of definable conditions to get the desired results. This is not unlike what happens inside of a drum, the air in the drum is a similar “driver” and as you change any parameter the response and attack changes. So given a bass drum say a standard 14x22 if you change the air cushion by adding more (or less) air yes you change the response and attack, other parameters change too ported, un-ported, head stiffness and tuning … Without going into a bunch of tech stuff as a very basic rule, if you use a given driver and put it into a cabinet that is too small then you choke off response and generally loose bass response and efficiency. If you make the cabinet too large then you get slack air that may have a degree of BOOM but lacks a balance of response, often called “punch” you also loose efficiency. Very much like a bass drum we shoot for a balance of attack to be able to hear articulation from the strings and the right amount of bottom to get a good bass feel, that does not necessarily mean getting the lowest possible response. “Keep it Simple” is totally correct, he understands when building a custom drum changing any given aspect changes something in that attack and response balance, and my guess is his prototype being a 20” depth will be “tuned” to the optimum he seeks … if he were to change to say an 18” depth he would change other aspects of his drum accordingly …
 
Now I'm not a real human being. Good night.

Perspective mate, perspective.

Do you like your Saturns? Do you like your new L&L kick? Do you like your BB? Do you like your bloody 20 inch deep kick?

Good.......that's all that matters. Now go play the friggen things mate and stop jumping at shadows. You need to offer no explanation for liking what you do and your decisions need no further justification to validate them.

We're cool mate, but you sound like an old woman. Man up for christ sake! :)
 
Well I guess all our drums are built improperly, we should all sell them, and buy Gurus.
 
Perspective mate, perspective.

Do you like your Saturns? Do you like your new L&L kick? Do you like your BB? Do you like your bloody 20 inch deep kick?

Good.......that's all that matters. Now go play the friggen things mate and stop jumping at shadows. You need to offer no explanation for liking what you do and your decisions need no further justification to validate them.

We're cool mate, but you sound like an old woman. Man up for christ sake! :)
Wow! I just don't get this.
 
Well I guess all our drums are built improperly, we should all sell them, and buy Gurus.

You're doin' it again mate.

Shrug it off, take a deep breath and be content with the fact that at your age and playing experience you may have picked up a trick or two and are content that you know your own mind as a result. Who gives a rats arse if people don't "see it your way" all the time? You've got your own thing happening..........what's wrong with that?

Be content with the fact that at least you can justify to yourself "why".......thousands can't. No joke.......I see it here often.

EDIT:

Wow! I just don't get this.

Only because you prefer to be difficult........you know it and I know it.

It was a pep talk mate. Kinda like buying you a beer. Given only because you let stuff get to you that really shouldn't and then over react above and beyond all reasonable proportions. But anyways, take it, leave it......or read into it whatever the hell you want. You can act like an adult and see the intention for what it was.....or act like a child and we'll end up going round this same old mountain in another thread. I'm a bit beyond caring to be honest. You are just way too difficult to converse with.
 
Last edited:
Well I guess all our drums are built improperly, we should all sell them, and buy Gurus.

Nobody is saying that. I feel quite confident that your kicks sound great, especially if you can tune. Could they be better if they took some of KIS' ideas into consideration, in my opinion, yes. However, they would be a lot more expensive to produce on a large scale. The original poster is having a custom kit made, so that person can chose to change some of the properties of the drums and make, IMO, a better drum.
 
There's so many different threads with similar questions about depth, diameter, ported, not ported, head selection, etc. If you're like me then you probably researched what some of your favorite drummers are using and what size kick they're playing.

My response to the initial question in this forum is that nobody can give you a clear answer. At best they can give you a starting point. Some people like 14X24, some people like 16X24. 16X24 sounds great, IMO. However, for my tastes they're a little too big. I've played 16X22, 18X20, 18X22, 16X20, 16X24. I prefer the control of a smaller kick but I thought the 20 was too small. I received the most compliments from sound guys on the last two sizes...that's in a live rock club type setting. The 16X20 was birch, the 16X24 was maple. It pretty much comes down to trial and error. Too many variables, like tuning and head selection, can change the sound of the drum. My next kick will be 14X22 (Ludwig Classic Maple). Can't wait...

Good Luck with your decision..
 
to be honest, i can't really notice a difference from "response" from my 22x18 starclassic and my 22x14 fibrestar.... there's a difference in note, mainly because one's wood the other is fibreglass, and head choice, however as far as you guys are talking about "response" i really don't think there's that much of a difference to be arguing this much about...

i mean don't get me wrong im sure there's a difference, but i'm just not anal enough to notice... when it comes down to playing i just want to play.....

with depth the main thing i'd be worried about (at least in a 24") is can you fit it into a car to get to gigs if its 24x16?
 
Sticksy babe, this reply is especially for you!

Now here's some real world advice:
when it comes down to playing i just want to play.....

with depth the main thing i'd be worried about (at least in a 24") is can you fit it into a car to get to gigs if its 24x16?

And this:
The original poster is having a custom kit made, so that person can chose to change some of the properties of the drums and make, IMO, a better drum.

And this:
You're doin' it again mate.

Shrug it off, take a deep breath and be content with the fact that at your age and playing experience you may have picked up a trick or two and are content that you know your own mind as a result. Who gives a rats arse if people don't "see it your way" all the time? You've got your own thing happening..........what's wrong with that?

Be content with the fact that at least you can justify to yourself "why".......thousands can't. No joke.......I see it here often.

And this from a member who really knows his stuff:
OK until now I have not chimed in on this …

A few years ago I was involved in the design of bass guitar speaker cabinets; let’s just say that we had some great designs with some interesting innovations enough to get a full six page review in a respected Bass magazine.

Every parameter is important in bass cabinet design as you are dealing with air charged by a driver often call a speaker. How one sets up how the air within that cabinet reacts with the speaker is subject to a series of definable conditions to get the desired results. This is not unlike what happens inside of a drum, the air in the drum is a similar “driver” and as you change any parameter the response and attack changes. So given a bass drum say a standard 14x22 if you change the air cushion by adding more (or less) air yes you change the response and attack, other parameters change too ported, un-ported, head stiffness and tuning … Without going into a bunch of tech stuff as a very basic rule, if you use a given driver and put it into a cabinet that is too small then you choke off response and generally loose bass response and efficiency. If you make the cabinet too large then you get slack air that may have a degree of BOOM but lacks a balance of response, often called “punch” you also loose efficiency. Very much like a bass drum we shoot for a balance of attack to be able to hear articulation from the strings and the right amount of bottom to get a good bass feel, that does not necessarily mean getting the lowest possible response. “Keep it Simple” is totally correct, he understands when building a custom drum changing any given aspect changes something in that attack and response balance, and my guess is his prototype being a 20” depth will be “tuned” to the optimum he seeks … if he were to change to say an 18” depth he would change other aspects of his drum accordingly …

If you read my post, the one that obviously tweaked your nipples, it's about as non Saturn critique as it gets, yet you found critique within it. You then asked a question specific to your drums, I answered with a rhetorical question, but it was genuine, as I know little about the Saturn range. I was also trying to get you to look beyond your fixation & involve you in searching for your own answer.

Down to basics. There are differences between drum designs that make a difference to their performance. Those differences exist = fact. Kenny's spot on with his speaker cabinet design analogy, & anyone involved in the pro end of either speaker or drum design knows full well the affect of specification changes. Commercially, it's whether those improvements can be delivered at a price point. Sometimes, mass market manufacturers produce stuff that looks the part, but is ill thought through sonically. Kenny gets that with examples of big impressive looking black boxes that deliver poorly, actually, a reasonable parallel with extra deep budget bass drums. It's all about the look. mating design elements together to produce the best possible result judged against the original design brief is something industry pro's do all the time. The speaker boys do it, & the drum boys do it. Sometimes, those two merge as well. For example, if I was doing FOH for a big band drummer with a 26" bass drum, I'd probably load the stack with bandpass subs (obviously, variables & caveats apply). If it was a metal band, I'd load the stacks with reflex subs. I won't bother you with why, but what I'm doing is aligning the sonic character of the speakers to the end goal of the band sound. Drum design on it's own is no different.

Now, before you get all defensive, this is not a "better" statement, & to refute your silly comment, of course everyone shouldn't throw their stuff away & go buy Guru stuff. There's a ton of great drums out there that deliver 90%+ of the sonic quality of a Guru kit for half the money, & for 99% of players, & 90% of applications, that's more than good enough. Equally, there's a sector that perceives the benefit of something that's designed towards a specific goal, & maximises construction & materials to bring that about at the highest standard. To deny that such an approach has value, is as stupid as saying you can't get a good sound out of a ply kit. Even more stupid, is to believe that anything that shows some advantage against gear you own, is an automatic threat to the validity of your gear choice.

Please, if you can maintain your own sanity, keep at it, because returning to the thread this morning was very amusing :)
 
Back
Top