Ceramic Drums

There is also the snare bed to consider. It hasn't been mentioned so, in case you aren't aware, I would like to point out that the bottom of the resonant side of the drum shell needs to have 2 snare beds shaped into it. What are snare beds? Portions of the shell that are slightly shallower than the rest of the shell. They line up with the snare strainer mechanism and butt plate. The size and depth of these snare beds are a critical concern that relates to the sound and sensitivity of the snares. It's something that has to be addressed. Most drums snare beds gently slope to the maximum depth of the snare bed, it's not a sudden drop. Different profiles affect the sound. As does different bearing edge profiles. (sharp, dull, in between)

A ceramic snare drum...there's a lot of challenges.
 
GRUNTERSDAD:

From the posts I just read I think I need some Drum mechanics 101 classes. Are you interested in spending some time with me to explain all of these technical bits of information these great people have been offering.

VALKYRIEVF2X and LARRYACE: Sounds like I need to contact the Jet Propulsion Laboratories out west to see about hanging my ceramic drum shell in some kind of vibration, shock, concussion, etc chamber when I get as prototype made. Thanks for our input.

As a side thought, what is happening to the band members internal organs during a stage concert. Must be a lot of jiggling going on.

Andy Sheppard
 
There is also the snare bed to consider. It hasn't been mentioned so, in case you aren't aware, I would like to point out that the bottom of the resonant side of the drum shell needs to have 2 snare beds shaped into it. What are snare beds? Portions of the shell that are slightly shallower than the rest of the shell. They line up with the snare strainer mechanism and butt plate. The size and depth of these snare beds are a critical concern that relates to the sound and sensitivity of the snares. It's something that has to be addressed. Most drums snare beds gently slope to the maximum depth of the snare bed, it's not a sudden drop. Different profiles affect the sound. As does different bearing edge profiles. (sharp, dull, in between)

A ceramic snare drum...there's a lot of challenges.

I agree about the snare beds. Also, I hear a lot of people obsess about perfection of bearing edges but to me, that's overrated. The fact that drums sound fine with the purposeful imperfection of snare beds tells me that bearing edges don't need to be perfect.
 
I would be happy to help with your project, send me your phone number thru a P M and we can work something out
 
Crazy idea and probably extremely costly but how about machining a drum out of a block or "doughnut" of ceramic? Is it even possible without cracking it?
 
JEFF ALMEYDA:

YOU SUGGESTED --"Crazy idea and probably extremely costly but how about machining a drum out of a block or "doughnut" of ceramic? Is it even possible without cracking it? "

See previous info I posted below.

LARRYACE: "It's not like you can take a little off here and there."

Yes I can. I plan to model the shell over size and then set the shell up on a lathe and "turn" it down to the needed dimension AFTER it has dried to the Leather Hard stage. Most of the shrinking will have been accomplished by that time. Ceramic artists carve and cut designs into clay at this stage all of the time.


SONNYGRABBER: In the past I have used a diamond tipped drill for cutting holes in some of my ceramic art, and it worked very well. You are right. After the first kiln firing as completed might be the very best time to drill holes.


JEFF, I plan to make the shell over size in ALL dimensions and do exactly what you suggested, "turn it down while it is in the Leather Hard stage (that is before the first kiln firing). Most of the shrinkage will have happened at that time. At that time I can then drill holes with out worrying about cracking the shell because the fiber infused clay I will be using is very strong in the leather hard and Green Ware stages. The fibers will burn out in the kiln firing.

So see your idea is spot on. I just do not need to start with a "log" of clay.

Andy
 
Hello again,

It has been almost 2 weeks since any posts have been added to my Ceramic Drum thread.

During that time I have been so extremely busy. I have joined a second drum making forum (not as good as this one), viewed hours of You Tube videos about making drums, read so many Google files about drums and of course attended school every day and all of the other stuff normal people do.

But the greatest experience I had was spending a total of 7 hours face to face with two of the nicest people I have ever met. John (Gruntersdad) visited me in my ceramic studio for 3 hours two Saturdays ago AND I visited Gary (gwaco) in his highly efficient machining, assembling, and designing shop this Saturday for 4 hours.

These two wonderfully personable, generous, friendly and very knowledgeable people welcomed me to their world of drums and taught me as much as I could absorb about what a drum is, how it is made, how it works, and much more.

At the end of both meetings John and Garry encouraged me to continue to pursue my Ceramic Snare Drum Shell project. They both want to stay connected to what I am trying to do. Since I can get carried away with making grand plans for my projects they convinced me to slow down a bit and try creating a ceramic shell without designing and building the "fancy" equipment I was planning to do. "Our" plan now is for me to make a ceramic drum shell with the simple techniques I normally use to create all of my other ceramic art. All clay modeling will be done by hand.

My goal is to make a single ROUND (a very important aspect) shell that will accommodate a standard 14" drum head. Lug holes NO. Snare bed YES. At that time one of Gary's free floating Wac'd lug systems will be attached. Also at that time the truth will reveal itself with the first few drum stick strikes. RIM SHOTS INCLUDED. Either it will have possibilities OR the project will ....you know... .

So I sure hope to have a Snare Drum with a Ceramic Shell making beautiful music in the near future. STAY TUNED.

I hope to be "Andy the Ceramic Drum Shell Maker".
 
Hello again,

It has been almost 2 weeks since any posts have been added to my Ceramic Drum thread.

During that time I have been so extremely busy. I have joined a second drum making forum (not as good as this one), viewed hours of You Tube videos about making drums, read so many Google files about drums and of course attended school every day and all of the other stuff normal people do.

But the greatest experience I had was spending a total of 7 hours face to face with two of the nicest people I have ever met. John (Gruntersdad) visited me in my ceramic studio for 3 hours two Saturdays ago AND I visited Gary (gwaco) in his highly efficient machining, assembling, and designing shop this Saturday for 4 hours.

These two wonderfully personable, generous, friendly and very knowledgeable people welcomed me to their world of drums and taught me as much as I could absorb about what a drum is, how it is made, how it works, and much more.

At the end of both meetings John and Garry encouraged me to continue to pursue my Ceramic Snare Drum Shell project. They both want to stay connected to what I am trying to do. Since I can get carried away with making grand plans for my projects they convinced me to slow down a bit and try creating a ceramic shell without designing and building the "fancy" equipment I was planning to do. "Our" plan now is for me to make a ceramic drum shell with the simple techniques I normally use to create all of my other ceramic art. All clay modeling will be done by hand.

My goal is to make a single ROUND (a very important aspect) shell that will accommodate a standard 14" drum head. Lug holes NO. Snare bed YES. At that time one of Gary's free floating Wac'd lug systems will be attached. Also at that time the truth will reveal itself with the first few drum stick strikes. RIM SHOTS INCLUDED. Either it will have possibilities OR the project will ....you know... .

So I sure hope to have a Snare Drum with a Ceramic Shell making beautiful music in the near future. STAY TUNED.

I hope to be "Andy the Ceramic Drum Shell Maker".


Sounds like a plan........good luck, hopefully it works out
 
Andy thanks for the kind words. I think we had a good exchange and I learned a lot about ceramics, but have no interest other than helping you and maybe starring in the sequel to "Ghost". Let me, us, know how it goes and when you are ready to put on the first set of heads. I at least want to add playing a ceramic drum to my resume,even if the result is the same as the guy playing the kit completely fro ice. I honestly do wish you nothing but the best in this project. Peace.
 
Initially I thought a ceramic drum was a ridiculous idea, but after reading everyone's thoughts, I have to say this is super interesting.

OP, you certainly have your work cut out for you, but the result will be awesome.
 
Andy showed me some clay, powder that has some fibers in it that give it strength beyond the normal fare. The other concern was rim shots but when I showed him a snare, where the bearing edge isn't contacted, the stick hits the rim and the head, he felt , and I felt it had a better chance of survival. Time will tell. Of major concern is going to be sound of course. After making a cylinder and putting some free floating type of rims and heads, the bottom line will be how does this ceramic shell sound. If you hit a bowl it has ring to it, so that is the first and major hurdle to jump. there are already ceramic hand drums on the market, he just has to come up with one that be can be hit with a stick.
 
John (Gruntersdad) visited me in my ceramic studio for 3 hours two Saturdays ago AND I visited Gary (gwaco) in his highly efficient machining, assembling, and designing shop this Saturday for 4 hours.

These two wonderfully personable, generous, friendly and very knowledgeable people welcomed me to their world of drums and taught me as much as I could absorb about what a drum is, how it is made, how it works, and much more.
This is great news. Both John & Gary are indeed generous & knowledgable. You've certainly hooked up with good people there, & ones who have no agenda other than to help you succeed.

I hope you succeed too. I'm a huge supporter of innovation within drum making. Without the smaller guys pushing the envelope, we'd all be playing the same generic drums as everyone else. It's in big business's interests to keep the status quo, so good on you for sticking your neck out. Ok, innovators usually fail more times than they succeed, but that's more of a determination challenge than anything else. Adapt, consult, overcome.

Really, the very best of luck - Andy.
 
PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE!

I created my first picture album to describe my first attempt to create a ceramic drum shell. Please look at my picture album.

Andy
 
This was my first attempt to create a ceramic drum shell. I employed the simplest method I know about. I rolled out 3 slabs of 3/8 inch thick clay, 7 inches wide and totaling 46 inches long when spliced together. I had to create the 3 separate slabs of clay because my mechanical precision slab roller will only accommodate 18 inch long slabs.

I then wrapped the clay slabs AROUND an acrylic drum shell John Getz (gruntersdad) is letting me borrow.

As the pictures tell the story, this was NOT the correct procedure to create my ceramic drum shell. BUT I HAD TO TRY IT THIS WAY TO ELIMINATE THIS METHOD.

I had to let the clay shell dry to a point that it would be able to stand up by itself. While drying the clay shell shrunk so that it was "hugging" the acrylic shell very tightly.

With a lot of coaxing I was able to remove the clay shell from its host form.

MOTHER NATURE (caps because I respect her so much) then took over. The clay shell stayed round. The wall thickness shrank a very little bit, the height shrank a bit more and the diameter shrank the very most. I learned a lot about how much shrinking was to be expected.

BUT THEN the bad thing happened. One of the spliced seams weakened and a small crack became a larger crack and then a monster crack. Humpty Dumpty was falling apart.

This is the end of my first experiment. My next trial will entail building the clay slab AROUND THE INSIDE of a circular model.

STAY TUNED.

Andy

***Pictures are on my profile page in album.


m Ceramic drum shell becoming old Roman ruins
l Ceramic drum shell SPLIT due to shrinkige2
j Ceramic drum shell removed from Acrilic shell
g Clay Shell Drying around Acrilic shell
f Slab of Clay Edge being Trimmed
e Slab of Clay out of slab roller
c Slab of Clay
a Acrilic Drum Shell nude
 
Ceramic Drum Shell 2nd Attempt

This time I wrapped the acrylic drum shell with a thin layer of foam that I hoped would absorb the compression of the shrinking clay shell and keep the clay from sticking to the acrylic shell like during my last experiment.

I made my very first batch of "Paper Clay" by combining my clay slip and cellulose insulation material in a 2/3 clay to 1/3 cellulose mixture. I ran this mixture in my blender for about an hour.

I then troweled the "Paper Clay" onto the foam wrapped acrylic drum shell in series of three coats.

Four days later the clay had NOT dried. I can only guess that the foam held enough moisture to keep the clay from getting stiff.

After 6 days I pealed the foam and clay "shell" apart and ended up farther from my goal of creating a ceramic drum shell than I was with my first attempt.

See pictures in my photo album.

I might try making a plaster mold to build my clay shell around.

Andy
 
Hey Andy,

I'm just curious, but why aren't you trying to throw the shell? I think for me this would be my first thought, but then again I was always partial to throwing and then hand-building on top of that.
 
Ceramic Drum Shell 2nd Attempt

SONNYGRABBER,

I do not try "throwing" my ceramic drum shell because I have never worked on a potter's wheel. Thought about learning how some day, but never did. I have always been a hand builder using clay slabs to create my art.

For examples of my work you could see some pictures at this web site.

http://www.custommade.com/by/patyoungceramicarts

Do you have a web presence where I could see your wheel thrown clay work?

Andy
 
Ceramic Drum Shell 3rd Attempt

ATTENTION EVERYBODY!

I THINK I AM ONTO A VERY PROMISING POSSIBLE CERAMIC DRUM SHELL SOLUTION NOW.

I have created a set of forms that will enable me to create a plaster slip casting mold.

I have purchased a set of HVAC sheet metal ducts in the following diameters; 10", 12", 14", 16", and 18". They range from #30 to #26 gauge in thickness. I found out that this building material is very expensive.

I cut a 12" length from each cylinder.

By inserting the various pieces one inside the other I have created separate areas for either plaster, clay slip or open spaces.

I rolled out a 20" diameter 1" thick slab of clay creating a base to act as both an anchor for the tubes and a sealant for the freshly poured plaster.

Since the sheet metal cylinders are flexible, I devised a system to control the size of the spaces between them. I inserted 1" wooden balls in a ring around both the top and bottom of two of the gaps. I used 2" glaze bottles in the 2" inner gap at the top and placed 2" bottle lids in the same gap at the bottom.

My goal is the pour molding plaster into the outer ring gap and also into the 3rd from the outside ring gap. The 2nd outer ring gap will be the space between the resulting inner and outer plaster mold sections for the clay slip to be poured.

Everybody confused yet?

Study the pictures in my album entitled "Ceramic Drum Shell 3rd Attempt" on my profile page.

Getting excited here.

Andy
 
Andy....I would quickly advise you to get NDAs from those you will discuss this project with. In my opinion, unless you have already filed something you are giving and accepting information on a potentially patentable product or technology or facet of your product.

I don't really think anyone here would be interested in sharing the IP or would even engage you about it.....myself included....but you should protect yourself.

Please have an attorney discuss this with you and get some insight....especially if you might be interested in starting a business around an invention, you need to protect it.
 
SHEMP,

OK, what is a NDA? What is an IP?

Lawyer? That usually requires money.

Do you really think my idea is going to rock the drumming world? Wouldn't that be just great! Maybe some pre-ordering of Ceramic Drum Shells is now called for.

Thanks for the advice,

Andy
 
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