Does your dog or cat have conscious thought?

GD, there's some interesting things when we try to parse conscious and instinctive, in the same way as it's hard to parse life and non-life (eg. viruses).

Animals think but not abstractly.

Now look at music. We could say that animals can't play music (though there's a lot of evidence that they can enjoy it).

But humans can't sing a bird's or a whale's song ... although we can record the songs and release them as a new age meditation aid - albeit with no credit or royalties for the composers!

Or how about this chimp's classy Cecil Taylor tribute? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh1HMm4pOwg
 
Emotions are just that. Thought is a reasoning process.

I've had dogs that seem to make decisions, or at least they try to exercise their will until I make enough demands. So I say dogs can reason, though they're not always reasonable.

Bermuda
 
Animals are not self-aware. They don't understand the concept of a self, or even know what a concept is. Animals do not reason; they are like computers. They take in data and follow a set of instructions (instincts). They react to something based on whether it gives them pleasure or pain.

There are no levels of self-awareness: either you are, or you aren't.
 
Animals do not reason; they are like computers. They take in data and follow a set of instructions (instincts). They react to something based on whether it gives them pleasure or pain.

There are no levels of self-awareness: either you are, or you aren't.

I agree with this as long as you include humans. Pretty well everything people do relates to security, power / status, sex / passing on genes and hedonistic pleasure ... just that we do it in a more fancy, roundabout way.
 
I've had dogs that seem to make decisions, or at least they try to exercise their will until I make enough demands. So I say dogs can reason, though they're not always reasonable.

Bermuda


This from Wikipedia. Only an excerpt but again there is nothing definitive since they can't speak.

While humans have had differing views of animal emotion, the scientific examination of animal emotion has led to little information beyond a recognition that animals have the capacity for pain and fear, and such responses as are needed for survival
 
This from Wikipedia. Only an excerpt but again there is nothing definitive since they can't speak.

While humans have had differing views of animal emotion, the scientific examination of animal emotion has led to little information beyond a recognition that animals have the capacity for pain and fear, and such responses as are needed for survival

And happiness, affection, playfulness, expectancy, sulking ... pretty well anything a toddler can throw at you.

Plenty of pet owners will agree with this and we're not all anthropomorphising.
 
The difference is, our thoughts bring shame. That's why we needed fig leaves, then robes to hide ourselves from our own thoughts. When you start to see dolphins swimming around with skirts on (or apes for that matter), then we can start to worry.

IMO, brains are brains and I don't think they function all that different from one another. Not sure why our brains are so much bigger, but it certainly has its advantages.
 
They are just more present moment - they don't seem able to conceptualise, recall and project into the future as we do but they definitely think and strategise in a limited way in the present moment.

They see and understand the patterns of activity around them and adapt to them just as we do. It's beyond just classical conditioning.
Although I agree Pol, that dogs are centred mainly on the moment, I certainly think they remember things from the past, apply them to the present, &, through recognition of patterns, project into the future, at least as far as the confines of a day. A simple example of a dog remembering that a family member comes home at a certain time. That's not instinct. Of course, you can go as deeply into this as you want, but I do have examples by way of personal experience where one of my dogs has acted in a way that can only mean it's weighed up the facts, & taken a decision to act outside of habit or instinct.
 
Although I agree Pol, that dogs are centred mainly on the moment, I certainly think they remember things from the past, apply them to the present, &, through recognition of patterns, project into the future, at least as far as the confines of a day. A simple example of a dog remembering that a family member comes home at a certain time. That's not instinct. Of course, you can go as deeply into this as you want, but I do have examples by way of personal experience where one of my dogs has acted in a way that can only mean it's weighed up the facts, & taken a decision to act outside of habit or instinct.


Agreed. Habits are learned. Acting to someone coming home is learned. They do have memory.which they use through the recognition of patterns. But this again is just a reaction.
 
Although I agree Pol, that dogs are centred mainly on the moment, I certainly think they remember things from the past, apply them to the present, &, through recognition of patterns, project into the future, at least as far as the confines of a day. A simple example of a dog remembering that a family member comes home at a certain time. That's not instinct. Of course, you can go as deeply into this as you want, but I do have examples by way of personal experience where one of my dogs has acted in a way that can only mean it's weighed up the facts, & taken a decision to act outside of habit or instinct.

This is simple association. Over time, the dog associates someone coming home on a regular basis to how light it is outside, or to how hungry it is. The dog seems to be happy because it associates the arrival of this person to food, or petting, or something else that gives it pleasure.
 
Can we talk about cat's. I find them much more capable of independent thought. They do what they want to do, not just what they are told.
 
How about this, between cats and dogs, which are more self aware? I just don't know. I wish there was a way to output a cats brain pattern and input it into a human brain.

The result would probably be a strong urge to move to Canada, buy too many drums, and come up with a logo for yourself.

Bam!
 
How about this, between cats and dogs, which are more self aware? I just don't know. I wish there was a way to output a cats brain pattern and input it into a human brain.

The result would probably be a strong urge to move to Canada, buy too many drums, and come up with a logo for yourself.

Bam!
Ohhhh Yaaaaa Ehhhhhh! I love my life. :)
 
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