Really wanky behaviour....

I enjoy playing drums, and I absolutely love the band thing, and the gig experience.

But, if I live to be 200, I don't think I'll ever understand some of the treatment I, and my band, have been subjected to by venues and event organisers for the privilege of playing an unpaid gig...

We've been booked for about six months to play a decent sized punk/ska/mod event this coming weekend. We found out about six weeks back that our time slot was 8.50pm. This meant that one of the lads in the band was able to commit to a work shift (he's a police constable) which he'd been having trouble with and still be able to make the venue. Furthermore, it meant that a number of people could commit to coming along to see us. My wife, for example, who works throughout the day at weekends.

The gig is local to two of us, so we'd been quite successful in promoting the event. I'd 'recruited' at least twenty people, my pal a similar number. My wife, who works in the shop practically next door to the event had recruited basically her entire staff to come see us with her....it's not a massive venue. This would have been a big payoff for them at £10 per ticket, and lots of drinks purchased.

Yesterday our slot was changed from 8.50pm to 4.30pm. No notification or explanation given to us.

I responded to the organisers explaining the above....and asking them if they could revert us to 8.50pm. Any earlier than 8pm in reality was impossible for us.

They responded to advise that the best they could do was give us 6.30pm.

We've had to decline.

I just can't find the words sometimes to explain how this kind of thing makes me feel.

Did they give a reason for moving your timeslot?

Well, they changed your time slot, you declined to play. Their loss. Yeah, it sucks that you had people lined up to come and see you, but you stuck to your commitment of 8:50 and they didnt. In the end, they are out lots of money because they messed around with the schedule. Good for you to sticking to your committments. Hopefully you will work with more venues who have the same values.

That's the music business.

Sounds most of all like an amateuristic organisation to me. 8:50pm, then 4:30pm, then "the best we can do is 6:30pm". If the planning is that flexible, you could have expected everything else to be totally sloppy as well.

Dre25 said:

Did they give a reason for moving your timeslot?

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None whatsoever.

And as one of the lads pointed out yesterday we don't actually think they were ever going to let us know about the change....it just changed on the Facebook running order.

Pretty shoddy really.

The first clue that they don't care about you is the fact they are not paying you for your time and talent. Work outwards from there and you'll see the problem.

You'll only be treated as badly as you allow yourself to be.

So not only are you doing the gig for free, they also want you to jump to there every whim?

Priceless. Looks to me like they have no idea what they are doing and the whole thing will be a shambles. You are well out of it.

If you have the time why not pop along and see just how bad it is and feel smug about not being involved with such incompetence.

Good to you for sticking to your guns. Now, in the future stop playing for free.

No Way Jose said:

That's the music business.

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That's life. Sometimes people don't give a crap.

BillRayDrums said:

The first clue that they don't care about you is the fact they are not paying you for your time and talent. Work outwards from there and you'll see the problem.

You'll only be treated as badly as you allow yourself to be.

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Bingo! I believe if we all refused to play for free just to benefit bar owners musicians in general would benefit.

SquadLeader said:

for the privilege of playing an unpaid gig...

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Unfortunately Squaddie, you've already placed a value on yourselves.........zero. It doesn't surprise me in the least that that's exactly the value that the venue has decided to place on you in turn. And if they think you're worth zero, you'd better believe they'll treat you like a zero.

Doesn't make it right....and yes, it does suck. But similarly, how do you expect anyone else to think you're worth something if you don't portray that from the get go?

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....except for the most select of circumstances (say festivals with thousands of punters where major acts are headlining)......unpaid gigs just don't serve a band well at all. Avoid at all costs.

Pocket-full-of-gold said:

Unfortunately Squaddie, you've already placed a value on yourselves.........zero. It doesn't surprise me in the least that that's exactly the value that the venue has decided to place on you in turn. And if they think you're worth zero, you'd better believe they'll treat you like a zero.

Doesn't make it right....and yes, it does suck. But similarly, how do you expect anyone else to think you're worth something if you don't portray that from the get go?

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....except for the most select of circumstances (say festivals with thousands of punters where major acts are headlining)......unpaid gigs just don't serve a band well at all. Avoid at all costs.

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Most bands in the UK would never gig...seriously. It's beyond belief these days. I bet 95% of UK gigs for unsigned bands are unpaid. We've actually signed ourself to our own independent label and only now, after a couple of years, began to secure paid gigs.

That apart, this is a charity festival. We were happy to play it for free. We now wish we hadn't have bothered.

I know that this forum covers levels of talent from serious professionals, through aspirant pro's to...well, the likes of me.

A band such as mine would feel fraudulent charging people for the "privilege" of hearing us. People are more likely to pay us to not play. We're hatching pans to find a relatively tame environment to play out.

The point is, and I am not casting nasturtiums on the OP's playing or band, not all bands are doing themselves or other musicians a disservice by playing for free. I do agree though, that if money is being made from the band's performance, then the band should get a slice of that pie.

Set up across the street and start playing at 8:30 PM.
Maybe even on a flat bed truck.

Put on a free outdoor concert. See how many people you can draw away from their event.


( Make sure you have a tip jar out in front of the band. )


.

Set up across the street and start playing at 8:30 PM.
Maybe even on a flat bed truck.

Put on a free outdoor concert. See how many people you can draw away from their event.

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Bloody brilliant idea, you'd get more publicity than the 'real' show across the road

I know those feels, OP. Venues tried to do us like that a lot when we first started playing shows. After about a year of playing, and getting a nice local following, we started seeing some pay outs. Even when some shows were supposed to be non paying gigs, we would still get a little bit anyways.

Doesn't seem that odd to me. Whoever is running the show either got a message from a band who they liked more that they wanted your time slot, or they booked another band that wanted your time slot. They figured they could move you and it would be fine. With gigs like that you need to tell them up front what your flexibility is, if you have any at all.

I'm not going to bash you for playing for free. I've been to tons of shows where door sales were barely enough to cover the venue rental, or the venue was trying to barely make their own rent. If you don't play for free, you don't get heard. If you're good, then people will start asking you to play payed gigs. Selling merch is often the only way you can get some income, and a tip jar.

SquadLeader said:

this is a charity festival. We were happy to play it for free. We now wish we hadn't have bothered.

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Ah. Fair enough then. I'd be lyin' if I said I'd never been in a band that lent its services free of charge to a charitable cause. A good example of "select circumstances" I guess.

I dunno mate. There's not much more to be done other than chalk it up to a bad experience. Hopefully the next time you offer your services for a cause, you won't be stuffed around as a reward for your efforts.

SquadLeader said:

we'd been quite successful in promoting the event. I'd 'recruited' at least twenty people, my pal a similar number. My wife [. . .] had recruited basically her entire staff to come see us with her....it's not a massive venue. This would have been a big payoff for them at £10 per ticket, and lots of drinks purchased.

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This part rang the biggest alarm bells for me: "charity" or not, one can always sniff out the shysters - not just by the fact that they get you to work for nothing, but by how much work they get you to do for nothing.

If an event planner wants a band to play for nothing for charity, then fair enough (if the band is okay with that) - but it's the promoter's responsibility to promote the event and get the punters in etc. It's bad enough when shitty pub venues pull that we'll-only-let-you-play-if-you-bring-40-mates-along thing, but somehow throwing words like "festival" and "charity" around makes these kind of dickwits think they can get away with the same amateur-hour behaviour.

I mean, there's Charity and there's charity: playing Live Aid at Wembley is one thing. Playing a pub car park with a pop-up gazebo from Argos over the stage area while somebody rattles a tin for cancer research is something else.