Stupid Drum sizes?

Ken and Mikecore, I think that you are correct. I don't mind my thirteen inch drum so much even though I don't play it anymore. I have been trying to like my 15 inch drum on and off since 1974. I tried every type of head and muffler configuration on it and I never liked it. My 13 and 15 in drums have been packed away for years now. Its 12 14 and 16 for me. I am thinking of trading my 14 x 6 in snare for a 13 x4. I like the tone and response of a 13 in chrome snare.
 
Remember, Tama used to make 11" toms as well, so there was at least a wizened little shove towards odd sizes as a mainstream fetish/object. The main problem is that MOST drummers could give a rat's ass about the subtle nuances offered by odd drum sizes.

Consider this...
You already have some pre-conceived ideas about how a 10" tom SHOULD sound, as well as a 12" a 14" and so forth. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a 22" bass drum in ANY drumshop, so THAT has become ubiquitous as well. Now...let's say you're a Bozzio drumdork like me, you are going to flout all of the conventional wisdom about what a drumkit should be, and have a go at it your own way (now we get to the root of MY drummer dogma). I'm trying to explore melodic textures using drums, so I go out and slap together a bunch of piccolo toms and make a diatonic scale of drums from "C" to the next lower "A". OK, they work, but the tones are garbage after I get beyond the mid ranges in either direction. The 7x8" that's pulling the low "A" is a bit too small to handle the note, but a 10" would be getting too "timbale-like" at that note. Likewise, the 3x8" handling the high "G" through "C" is making more of a "bongo-pop" than a smooth actual note, and even THAT little bastard wouldn't be able to pull that note without the six lugs that DW decided to put on the thing (personal experience; there's no way in hell you will get to those high notes with four lugs unless you are willing to RUIN your hoops, and even then, you are asking for trouble).

So, with 1" increment drums, I would be able to better dial in the tom notes I want for diatonic or even chromatic scales, without compromising the tone of the drums them selves. Yes, existing sizes could get the job done, but like Zappa said, 'Timbre rules", and there's no excuse for sacrificing good tone when the technology exists to solve this problem in some marginal way. The main reason this has not happened is (insert scary music) MARKETING.

The fact is, fruitcakes like me don't happen very often, so there just isn't the market for odd sized drums beyond what already exists, and even THAT is threatened by a lack of interest in these sizes. Unless we start getting more into specific notes and the desired tonality for each, we are probably stuck with the stupid sizes we have.

Thank God we have them, by the way. I would hate to enter that world of "This-or-that drumco. (LLC), will tell you what sizes you want---or else", but the time has come to reach deeper into the sound of a given drum, and see what music we can make, without an electric guitar in sight, and a wider range of drum configs will be neccessary to make this work.
 
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I admit I am just a basement drummer, correct me if i am wrong, I dont think there is anything "stupid" in drumming (or in selecting sizes) other than playing in a fashion that hurts ourselves physically.
 
I think everyone is WAY over thinking this. I've got odd and even sized drums, odd and even sized cymbals and with the drums I just tune them to what pleases my ear. You don't need to get all technical. I think it sucks all the fun out of being a drummer when you start making too much out of nothing. I agree with the fact that all sizes should be made easily available. Try them out in the store and if you don't like it don't buy it. Do what pleases you and don't make it needlessly complicated.
 
Mr Dyck hit the nail on the head. The great thing about music is there is no protocol that you HAVE to follow. Just grab what you like. I have (wasn't my choice) a 10, 12, 13 racks and a 16 floor. I don't use the floor much, because I don't like the jump from the 13 to the 16 (or the 12 to the 16). I'd rather have a 14 and then I could move out the 13. Skipping two inches does sound better, but it doesn't mean skipping one inch won't work.

I also would like to go with smaller toms than larger toms for two reasons...spacing/setup and the fact I believe you can tune a smaller head lower easier than you can tune a larger head higher. I don't know if that's just my experience or if it's common to all, but its what I've found and what works for me is what I should go with.
 
Mr Dyck hit the nail on the head. The great thing about music is there is no protocol that you HAVE to follow. Just grab what you like. I have (wasn't my choice) a 10, 12, 13 racks and a 16 floor. I don't use the floor much, because I don't like the jump from the 13 to the 16 (or the 12 to the 16). I'd rather have a 14 and then I could move out the 13. Skipping two inches does sound better, but it doesn't mean skipping one inch won't work.


I also would like to go with smaller toms than larger toms for two reasons...spacing/setup and the fact I believe you can tune a smaller head lower easier than you can tune a larger head higher. I don't know if that's just my experience or if it's common to all, but its what I've found and what works for me is what I should go with.
I actually tune my 14 inch drum slightly tighter than my 12 inch drum. The size of the 14 inch drum still makes it sound lower even though the head is tighter than the 12 inch drum. I tune the bottom heads to the same tension on each drum. I get better "Ring" and "Response" from the 14 inch when it's a bit tighter. There is an example that reinforces what was meant by Stupid Drum Sizes. When you bought your kit you weren't given the choice of a 14 in drum instead of a 13. The manufacturer told you what sizes you wanted.
 
I skimmed through most of these posts, but did all of you know that Tama made an 11" tom? It was in a late 80s early 90s product catalog. Dave Lombardo's kit had one (in the catalog, not sure if in real life). Pretty "odd".

I like the two different bass drum sizes in double bass set-ups.
 
I have two kits - a fusion-like setup with 10/12/14/16 and a "standard" 12/13/16.

The fusion is real easy to tune where I'd like and in intervals I like. The standard kit not so much and like others, that 13 has practically no use anymore.

HOWEVER, if I was using a 4-pc kit (and do so often), and a 12" tom was just a little underkill, I would go for something like 13x9 to pair with a 16x16 floor.

In addition, anything larger like 13x10 or 13x11 is too "power rock tom" for my tastes and certainly wouldn't be mounted alongside a 12".
 
Well, if we're talking about REALLY stupid drum sizes, I have to say that a 300" by 400" kick is just too big. I mean, it's just stupid.
 
what I don't like is how pretty much all batter head pre-packs are for kits that have two rack toms and one floor tom.

what about drummers like me that use a kit with only one rack tom and one floor tom? or drummers that use one rack tom and two floor toms?

it's like making us buy a head that we aren't going to use.

Or what about guys like me that play a 5 piece that's 10, 12, 16? That seems to be becoming a popular configuration, and my only options are to find a nice drum store that will let me swap a 13" head out of the pack for a 10"... or get a fusion pack and see if they'll swap the 14" for a 16". Luckily, I use coated Ambassadors, so I can usually find a use for the extra head on my 13" piccolo snare or one of my 14" snares.

I used to own an 80s Ludwig set with 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16" toms. Every few years, I'd get the idea that I could use them all... tuning was a NIGHTMARE! Not only was it hard to tune the individual toms differently enough to make an inpact, but when I'd cut back to a 5 piece, the 12 and 13 that would fit comfortably above my kick were tuned WAY too close together. I finally just gave it up and retired the 14 and 15.
 
Trip McNealy makes a good point. Sometimes there is a certain magic in a setup that only happens with those very specific sizes. My first kit was a 9x13, 16x16, 14x22, and the natural tendencies of those sizes yielded a very diverse range of tones with very few drums. Probably why Buddy described that config as a complete set of drums. Reading more of these posts now, I tend to think the smaller kits would benefit more from a wider range of sizes than larger ones would, like my first four piece or the fairly common jungle/jazz 10, 13 toms and 16/18" bass. Pairing toms too close in size to each other is pretty risky unless you are doing some kind of Billy Cobham/Terry Bozzio kind of thing. The natural tones are just too close for traditional rhythm-based drumming.
 
Check out this page from the DW website.

http://www.dwdrums.com/drums/drumchart.htm

It lists all of their available sizes, grouped in specific categories. They are calling the following toms "Standard Sizes":

8x8, 9x10, 10x12, 11x13, 12x14, 13x15, 14x16, 16x18

I'm confused. I actually have a few drums in some of the above sizes, and they sound very good, but "standard"? In what way are these sizes "standard"? Anyone know what they're basing this label on?
 
Check out this page from the DW website.

http://www.dwdrums.com/drums/drumchart.htm

It lists all of their available sizes, grouped in specific categories. They are calling the following toms "Standard Sizes":

8x8, 9x10, 10x12, 11x13, 12x14, 13x15, 14x16, 16x18

I'm confused. I actually have a few drums in some of the above sizes, and they sound very good, but "standard"? In what way are these sizes "standard"? Anyone know what they're basing this label on?

excluding the first 2. the rest have the pattern of the depth being 2 inches shorter than the diameter. s'all i got lol
 
I used to own an 80s Ludwig set with 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16" toms. Every few years, I'd get the idea that I could use them all... tuning was a NIGHTMARE! Not only was it hard to tune the individual toms differently enough to make an inpact, but when I'd cut back to a 5 piece, the 12 and 13 that would fit comfortably above my kick were tuned WAY too close together. I finally just gave it up and retired the 14 and 15.
My Gretsch kit from the mid Seventies came in the same sizes. That is why my 13 and 15 are in indefinite storage at the moment.
 
My Gretsch kit from the mid Seventies came in the same sizes. That is why my 13 and 15 are in indefinite storage at the moment.

I don't remember why I decided on the 13 rather than the 14. Maybe I could only find a decent 13" head, and that made the decision for me...

Or maybe I just found the "extra" two toms superfluous and just used the first two and the last one. Maybe I could only get the first double tom stand to work properly and abandoned the second set. Or maybe I did know what "standard" sizes were and went with that. I honestly don't recall.
 
Deltadrummer's version is a more detailed one that what I recall hearing, which is that the early 4-piece kits were either 12/14/20 or 13/16/22, so when they finally started configuring 5-piece kits, they just combined the rack toms they were already using. Seems I recall from somewhere that some companies also offered 6-piece kits with 12/13/14/16...?

I heard this story, but with a slight embelishment. I heard that Dave Clark, drummer of the Dave Clark Five, was one of the first rock drummers to mount two rack toms, and it was marketed by Rogers as the Dave Clark Londoner. This was the very first shell pre-pack ever sold with two rack toms mounted to the kick drum. The name was shortened to Londoner around 1966, when my old kit was made: a Rogers "Londoner" (see attached). The standard sizes to choose from were a 8 x 12 or 9 x 13 rack and a 14 x 14 or 16 x 16 floor, and it was Clark who picked the 12/13/16.

If you check out this video of the DC5, you will see that Clark sets his kit up as a 13/12/16...go figure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sehYnUVAcZM

When I bought this kit more than 35 years ago (used) I actually thought it was a 12/14/16 and when I went to buy new heads for the first time, I was blown away that the sizes were 12/13/16....this question has been perplexing drummers since at least 1973!

I sure would be interested to hear what the real story is. Otherwise, blame Dave Clark!
 

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Absolutely beautiful set of rogers. Can't wait to fully restore mine.....a wood dyna sold for around 3200 last week on eBay; good news....

When I played jazz band in high school, I was lucky enough to play a red sparkle ludwig with TWO 12s, 14, 20. Came with vintage A Zildjians. I wonder if I can buy that set........I'll be right back.....
 
Check out this page from the DW website.

http://www.dwdrums.com/drums/drumchart.htm

It lists all of their available sizes, grouped in specific categories. They are calling the following toms "Standard Sizes":

8x8, 9x10, 10x12, 11x13, 12x14, 13x15, 14x16, 16x18

I'm confused. I actually have a few drums in some of the above sizes, and they sound very good, but "standard"? In what way are these sizes "standard"? Anyone know what they're basing this label on?

Yeah, the "standard" refers to the combination of depth/width. Generally, anything over 10" is "standard" when the drum is two inches shorter than it is wide. For smaller toms, in order to have the same type of sound as those larger toms, it is a one inch difference for a 10" tom, and no difference for an 8" tom. Most shell packs that you can buy, especially mass market ones, will have a combination of those drum sizes. It won't be all of them, obviously, but if you get a standard shell pack from most any company, if you get a 13" tom, it's going to be 11" deep. If you get a 14" tom, it'll be 12" deep, etc.

There are other terms, such as "box toms" meaning that the width and depth are the same (12x12, 14x14, etc.), "F.A.S.T. toms" which are shorter (I forget the details), etc.
 
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