New vs Classic Supraphonic

I got a new supra 6 1/2 x 14 a few years ago. It was around $325.

I just didn't want to deal with the pitting and I wanted something new.
No internal muffler on the current (2005) ones.

I did have a stripped lug from the factory and was sent a complete new drum.

I never got compliments on specific drums before, but everyone makes a point to say how much they like the sound of the Ludwig supra snare.

New or used you can't go wrong with the sound!

Good luck!
 
That 1979 Supra went for $430 plus, almost $22 in shipping.

$452 is too much to pay for a snare you can get new, cheaper, is the same drum, and isn't going to have any plating issues for a very long time if ever.
Besides the fact that you could order one with tubes if you wanted, and the B/O badge if you liked that badge better for whatever reason.

Back in the day, people didn't take care of stuff like they do now, so if kept up and wiped down or cleaned once in a while, I doubt that a Supra would get any pitting as long as the person owned it.

I have a hammered Supra (a '93) and there's not one speck of anything going bad on the finish.
It's as pretty as the day I got it, and sounds just as good.

....$430 bucks.....sheesh....
 
Aluminum is a VERY stable liquid. : ^ P
I have a METAL supra....a magnet will stick to it. A magnet will not stick to aluminum.

I believe that you have one of the extremely rare (carbon) steel shells. I have read a lot of talk about them. But until now no one has ever confirmed that they really exist.

Ludwig went with the cheapest metal materials available in order to save money. They strated out with brass, then went to aluminum then a aluminum/zinc alloy.
 
Hey guys, I may be being a little dense- I have read your responses and now I am just trying to figure out the real difference between the Black beauty and an acrolite- Well apart from about $300!


They are both metal (of some sort or construction) and it looks as though the BB is hand-hammered? Other then that- what puts the BB $300 over the acrolite?

Can anyone describe the sound difference?

thanks

Oh, and does anyone know if the classic lugs on the acrolite can be switched out for tube lugs? I just like the look of them- but the Acrolite does not come with them as a option- As far as I have found anyway
 
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I tried to find another thread about this but my search came up with no matches,

Does anyone know the difference between the classic Bonham era snares to the modern ones?

Does anything see the modern ones as even the same type of drum?

I see alot on ebay etc drums flaking and looking in pretty poor shape- It looks like there were issues during the 80's- I dont really have a lot of knowledge with these.

Should I be trying to find a good classic or just go for a new one without any 'aging' problems


Hi, i was in the same boat as you, i'd been looking through ebay for a vintage 400 or 402 but never quite closed the deal so left it for about a year. A friend of mine, who's a professional drummer in a well known UK rock band recommended wholeheartedly i get a vintage model as they 'do sound better', so respecting his opinion i'd decided that was the way to go, until i visited one of my local drum shops last thursday. I got one of the assistants to play a new 400, first tuned high, and secondly tuned low. It screamed absolute quality, and i was blown away by it's sound, they really are versatile snares with the most beautiful sound imo. So that made my mind up for me, it'll be a NEW model for me and i'll hopefully be picking it up next friday. £399 is it's price, the 402 (which i didn't hear) slightly more.

In a nutshell, i'd be seriously surprised if you were anything less than very happy with a new model (and they look so much nicer without the pitting etc).
 
Hey guys, I may be being a little dense- I have read your responses and now I am just trying to figure out the real difference between the Black beauty and an acrolite- Well apart from about $300!


They are both metal (of some sort or construction) and it looks as though the BB is hand-hammered? Other then that- what puts the BB $300 over the acrolite?

Can anyone describe the sound difference?

thanks

Oh, and does anyone know if the classic lugs on the acrolite can be switched out for tube lugs? I just like the look of them- but the Acrolite does not come with them as a option- As far as I have found anyway


The Acrolite and the 400 series drums have the same shell material.
The Acrolite is (now) powder coated in the black sparkly finish, the 400's are chrome plated.
Black Beauties are a brass shell. It sounds totally different, and is a heavier shell by quite a noticeable difference.

The Acro has a warmer, slightly lower pitched bark than the Supra, and it's a drier sounding drum. It is NOT a low budget "student" model snare.

The BB is a brighter, solid, sweet sound that has more cut because of the brass shell.
IMO this drum is worth every penny, and has never let me down in any way. It's expensive, but not out of reach if you really wanted one and saved for it.

The Supra sounds like a Supra--nothing else sounds like it, no matter how many companies try and copy it, they don't sound the same as Ludwig's snare.
God crack, solid throaty bark, pleasant ring, records great, doesn't weigh a million pounds but sounds like a million dollars...

The BB and 400 (supra) snares are offered in Hammered versions. The Bronze shell drums are also available in a Hammered version.
Same basic sound drum to drum (depending on the shell), but the hammering makes it a little drier.

The hole patterns are the same for all the lugs on a 5 or 6.5, so you can switch out to tube lugs--and I'd recommend Ludwig's tube lugs over the generic type because they are nicer if you can afford it.
They are a few bucks more each than standard generic tubes the various suppliers offer.

The generic tubes work fine, and would probably never give you a problem, but Ludwig's tube lugs are nicer, heftier, and have a beefier screw holding them on.

They probably run about 4 bucks each more, but, in the long run for my piece of mind, it'd be worth the 40 or so extra bucks if you can swing it.

Now, if it's a drum you'd have and put tubes on just because you dig them, and you would sell the drum in a year or so, then I would use the regular tubes and they'd be just fine, but if it was a "keeper", then go with the good stuff.

The hole pattern on the P-85 throw off is the same as the (nicer & cooler looking) P-86 Millennium strainer, as well as the newer butt plate (which is stupid cheap-I couldn't believe it was that low of a price).

A Black Galaxy Acrolite with tubes would look and sound sweet. It's actually a snare on my short list (with tube lugs too!).
 
That 1979 Supra went for $430 plus, almost $22 in shipping.

$452 is too much to pay for a snare you can get new, cheaper, is the same drum, and isn't going to have any plating issues for a very long time if ever.
Besides the fact that you could order one with tubes if you wanted, and the B/O badge if you liked that badge better for whatever reason.

Back in the day, people didn't take care of stuff like they do now, so if kept up and wiped down or cleaned once in a while, I doubt that a Supra would get any pitting as long as the person owned it.

I have a hammered Supra (a '93) and there's not one speck of anything going bad on the finish.
It's as pretty as the day I got it, and sounds just as good.

....$430 bucks.....sheesh....


Karl, it is not too often that I disagree with you, but by your logic, a 1966 Fender Stratocaster should not cost more than an new one. Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but If one can find a 1970's 402 in great shape, I would think it is safe to assume that if taken good care of, it should stay about the same. And yes, you can buy them new, but collecting/ nostalgia is found in the drum world too. Call me a sucker, but I would pay (and have) a little more for a vintage one than a new one as well. Probably in the minority, but I'm a big fan of the 1970's vibe, and I really don't think the new ones are as attractive with mismatched lugs/ shell beads. That reaks of cheap import.
 
Aluminum is a VERY stable liquid. : ^ P
I have a METAL supra....a magnet will stick to it. A magnet will not stick to aluminum.

Ya - forget the aluminum shell - a person won't be able to put those cool little magnetic flashing Christmas lights on the drum ! - just having fun guys - good read regarding luddy stuff - thanks
 
Chrome does not adhere to aluminum properly. Just can't, it's inherent to the properties of the metals. A chromed aluminum snare will pit, given time. Good care can delay it, that's all. Fortunately, some pitting/peeling won't affect anything but the resale value, which is why I have an early-mid '70's Supra that GC sold me for $140.
Keep a good coat of wax on that snare and it won't pit. The wax will prevent the moisture from getting in and it'll make that baby shine like you just bought it. BUT if you let it go because you're lazy, it WILL pit sooner or later.
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I'd rather simmer for life than be a flash in the pan.
-Bermuda
 
Aluminum is a VERY stable liquid. : ^ P
I have a METAL supra....a magnet will stick to it. A magnet will not stick to aluminum.
I don't know if you're trying to joke but, Aluminum is a METAL as is Steel and many other METALS.
Don't take MY word on it, read this: ALUMINUM
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__________________
I'd rather simmer for life than be a flash in the pan.
-Bermuda
 
Karl, it is not too often that I disagree with you, but by your logic, a 1966 Fender Stratocaster should not cost more than an new one. Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but If one can find a 1970's 402 in great shape, I would think it is safe to assume that if taken good care of, it should stay about the same. And yes, you can buy them new, but collecting/ nostalgia is found in the drum world too. Call me a sucker, but I would pay (and have) a little more for a vintage one than a new one as well. Probably in the minority, but I'm a big fan of the 1970's vibe, and I really don't think the new ones are as attractive with mismatched lugs/ shell beads. That reaks of cheap import.

I think we agree a bit, and I have said in the past (but not in that post or this thread) that the OLD Supras are nicer than the new stuff because yes, the bead matches and all that.

AND I agree on the nostalgia factor on a GOOD ONE, like the old stuff that matches up perfect and is in nice shape.
In that case, even 100 + bucks more than new wouldn't be out of line to me, if I really wanted one.

But, paying more on a relatively new drum? 1979 is not that long ago, and I'd think anyone would be hard pressed to tell the difference in sound between a 1979 drum and a 1993 drum like the one I have.

I'd say the only difference is the badge, and you could get a new one with a B/O badge direct from the factory with a warantee.

I always said before "If it makes someone happy, and they get 'that feeling' when they play the drum, it's worth it".

I probably wouldn't do it on a Supra...but, if I found a Bronze BB like my '89.....

Maybe it seems "cheap" to you because the lugs and stuff aren't USA made anymore (besides the not matching up)?
Yeah, it'd be nice if they were, but they aren't, and haven't been for a long time, so what can ya do?

There's things that bug me about fittings, and things that make you go "eww" like the bead and lug deal with you, so I get where you are coming from.

To me, as a non-connoisseur of the 400 series (I only have the 1 1993), the sound is "the same" (read: it sounds like a Supra 402) and that's what a lot of people say too, but if I heard an older one, like a 60's 402, and it didsound better to my ears, I'd change my opinion.

Maybe the parts and the metal used in making the fitting and screws and all that might make a difference, but the newer Supras I have heard do sound great.

If the older ones sound better than great, then I'm all for it, and the extra cost is acceptable.
And come on dude, a '66 WOOD Strat is going to sound better than a new Strat..we ALL know that!

Wood isn't the same as metal, but I'll concede that the "cheap-o" mixed LudALoy used now may be a little more "cheap-o" :)
And I use the term "Cheap-o" affectionately, but if it sounds great, who gives a crap if it's scrapings off the shoe of the Toxic Avenger....

I will keep an eye out for any Supras that have a B/O badge and look like the bead and lugs match up (yeah, that would be a great thing to fix) and test them out myself.

I do know that the '66 400 my boss has sounds really great, so you might just be right, and I'm the dope who's missing out...I'd freely admit it if that's the case.
 
Out of interest, has anyone on here actually put a vintage and new 400 side by side and played them, and if so, was there any noticeable difference in the sound?

Cheers
Al
 
Out of interest, has anyone on here actually put a vintage and new 400 side by side and played them, and if so, was there any noticeable difference in the sound?

Cheers
Al
Well, I've got 2 1970's ones and a 1990's one and they're damned identical as can be sound wise. The 1990's one LOOKS a damn sight better though. My 70's ones are pitted with dented rims and other aesthetic flaws but they sure SOUND wonderful!!

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I'd rather simmer for life than be a flash in the pan.
-Bermuda
 
Do the new ones without the internal muffler sound different at all? Or could you just use some other kind of dampening tool?

I don't think they sound all that different, if any at all. My modern LM402 is a ringy mofo, though, and would definitely prefer to have the internal muffler that my Acros have. No matter how much dampening I place on the head, it doesn't seem to really do the same thing as the muffler does.
 
I don't think they sound all that different, if any at all. My modern LM402 is a ringy mofo, though, and would definitely prefer to have the internal muffler that my Acros have. No matter how much dampening I place on the head, it doesn't seem to really do the same thing as the muffler does.
Bought a 5x14 blackrolite a few months ago. I'm using a remo powerstroke 3 and hazy res, removed the muffler, added 1 pc. of moongel and it sounds the best so far. Have tried a new coated ambassador and a few older-vintage heads.
 
Bought a 5x14 blackrolite a few months ago. I'm using a remo powerstroke 3 and hazy res, removed the muffler, added 1 pc. of moongel and it sounds the best so far. Have tried a new coated ambassador and a few older-vintage heads.

There are a few of us here that prefer Ludwig USA heads on our Supras. They do a surprisingly good job of showcasing the sensitivity and overtones of the drum. They do sound quite a bit different than Remo's and Evans offerings.

LW3314 (Snare Batter Medium Coated)
C1114 (Snare Resonant Head Clear)

Give it a shot if you have $25 to burn.

Also of note: New BB's retail for $700-ish. At that price, the only dampening you should be using is your freshly-emptied wallet.
 
Bought a 5x14 blackrolite a few months ago. I'm using a remo powerstroke 3 and hazy res, removed the muffler, added 1 pc. of moongel and it sounds the best so far. Have tried a new coated ambassador and a few older-vintage heads.

I should also note that the Acros I've owned are far more dry sounding than my Supra, even without the muffler engaged.
 
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