What's the most common kick&snare pattern in swing/jazz?

dazzlez

Senior Member
I'm looking for the most common beat in jazz that have both kick snare in it.

If you would have to pick one swing-beat to learn as a all-round-drummer what would it be?
I've got the ride and left-foot pattern but what about kick and snare?
I understand kick and snare are mainly there to spice tunes up in jazz according to the feel of the song but isn't there ONE pattern that is a bit more common than all the rest like any other style?
Ghost kicks on every quarter notes and Snare on every A? (1 & A 2 & A 3 & A 4 & A)

That's what I got from one video but the first basic swing-beat are all different when learning from different teachers online which confuses me... I just heard an Art Blakey recording playing the snare on the 2 and 4 which was much easier to play along.


I'm on a mission to learn 1 common beat of every style... so far I got:
Reggae: one drop
Blues: Shuffle
Jazz: A swing pattern but I'm unsure if it's a better one out there to nail in case I ever come in a jazzy situation
Latin clave: Bossa nova
SKA: Still looking into that...

Suggestion on more styles and common patterns is appreciated.
 
I'm afraid you just can't condense the world of jazz drumming into a single "beat". You can survive by playing just the ride pattern, feathering the bass drum and pedaling the hi-hat on 2 & 4, though -- this bare bones approach will most likely sound and feel better than a repeating pattern on the snare and bass drum. Add variety by playing a rim click on beat four.
 
I don't think you can condense a lot of styles into one beat really. Only Casio keyboards try to do that and fail miserably!

It's a good way to start a wide vocabulary though as if you just keep repeating this process and add 2 beats to each style then 3 etc, You're going to have a varied arsenal of beats at your disposal. And then comes the natural improvisation...

So it could be the start of something great!
 
jazz is not a pattern based music

it is more about having the facilities and vocabulary to improvise in response to what other musicians are playing spontaneously

so unfortunately knowing one pattern will be as useful as tits on a bull as they say

knowing the "55" ride pattern and closing the hats on 2 & 4 are as close you will get to a pattern in jazz

and even that is seldom used continuously anymore
 
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That is an interesting approach to drumming. A far better one would be to immerse yourself in the different styles for a while each, take lessons, listen to as many recordings as you can to make sense of it all, and eventually join a group that plays that style of music. Learning how to play a style isn't about learning one "beat", it's about playing with the feel of the music.

I would recommend picking up the Groove Essentials DVDs/Books. It sounds exactly like what you're looking for. You'll learn a "beat" or two for every style, and while this approach would never work for somebody looking to gig in any of those styles, it's a smattering of introductions to the many styles drummers can learn.
 
I'm afraid you just can't condense the world of jazz drumming into a single "beat". You can survive by playing just the ride pattern, feathering the bass drum and pedaling the hi-hat on 2 & 4, though -- this bare bones approach will most likely sound and feel better than a repeating pattern on the snare and bass drum. Add variety by playing a rim click on beat four.
Thanx!

I don't think you can condense a lot of styles into one beat really. Only Casio keyboards try to do that and fail miserably!

It's a good way to start a wide vocabulary though as if you just keep repeating this process and add 2 beats to each style then 3 etc, You're going to have a varied arsenal of beats at your disposal. And then comes the natural improvisation...

So it could be the start of something great!

That's exactly what I was thinking, I just want a idea of every style right now and start internalizing the different coordination's.


That is an interesting approach to drumming. A far better one would be to immerse yourself in the different styles for a while each, take lessons, listen to as many recordings as you can to make sense of it all, and eventually join a group that plays that style of music. Learning how to play a style isn't about learning one "beat", it's about playing with the feel of the music.

I would recommend picking up the Groove Essentials DVDs/Books. It sounds exactly like what you're looking for. You'll learn a "beat" or two for every style, and while this approach would never work for somebody looking to gig in any of those styles, it's a smattering of introductions to the many styles drummers can learn.

Great tip! Will certainly look into that. I'm not really looking to gig with the styles yet, it's more introducing a lot of them to broaden my view and I also plan to do as you say go more deep into every style later on. I just started to feel like I missed something when I was focusing on the standard rockpop 4/4 beats all the time and wanted a wider range of styles even though I'm far from a really solid rock/pop drummer yet. (Tend to speed up and need to practice my fills and the tempo in the fills a lot). I always thought of Jazz something I would do after 5-8 years of drumming and had the "I'm not ready for that yet" mentality. I changed my mind about that though and I think it's a good idea to learn at least the basics of most styles you're interested in rather early than later.
 
I always thought of Jazz something I would do after 5-8 years of drumming and had the "I'm not ready for that yet" mentality. I changed my mind about that though and I think it's a good idea to learn at least the basics of most styles you're interested in rather early than later.

Nah. Don't go for the "I'm not ready for that yet" mentality. You'll keep pushing that boulder down the road if you do. If it interests you NOW, and you have the means NOW (time, a drum set, your health, etc...), do it NOW.

If you are serious about studying jazz, don't fall into the trap that some people fall into, thinking that there is a short list of standards to know. Listen to jazz you like, preferrably some modern, some 20s-50s, some 60s-70s, some fusion, some latin jazz, etc. Discover artists you like, composers you like, and really crack into the world of jazz. Just because Ella Fitzgerald sang it doesn't mean you HAVE to know it.

However, John Riley's books are GREAT resources which will serve you well if you give them serious study!
 
I just posted and deleted a basic swing beat that looked like what I usually play when thinking jazz. The reason I deleted it though was when I listened to it, it sounded nothing like what I play.

There's tons of variations and embellishments though, of even the most basic swings and shuffles.
 
just one last question... From several sources I've got the idea that feathering the bass drum on all quarter notes is quite common?

Is this true?
 
just one last question... From several sources I've got the idea that feathering the bass drum on all quarter notes is quite common?

Is this true?

You should absolutely learn to feather

Even though it is not as common as it once was ....... Certain styles and certain tempos just feel better with a feather

It is still something that should be second nature to a jazz player even if it's not called for in every situation
 
just one last question... From several sources I've got the idea that feathering the bass drum on all quarter notes is quite common?

Is this true?

It depends on the exact tunes and situation. Sometimes feathering a bass drum on all quarter notes would be an awful thing to do. You have to get a sense of the various styles of swing and jazz to know what is appropriate in a historical sense first, then apply yourself to it.

Getting back to your basic goal of learning a beat for different kinds of music, you can find a lot of information in the various drum books that are available. Jazz is it's own animal and there
is a wealth of variation in how tunes are played by drummers.
 
It depends on the exact tunes and situation. Sometimes feathering a bass drum on all quarter notes would be an awful thing to do. You have to get a sense of the various styles of swing and jazz to know what is appropriate in a historical sense first, then apply yourself to it.

Getting back to your basic goal of learning a beat for different kinds of music, you can find a lot of information in the various drum books that are available. Jazz is it's own animal and there
is a wealth of variation in how tunes are played by drummers.

My instructor in first year told me to feather. My instructor in 2nd-4th year told me not to, and that he would chop my leg off if I did.

Honestly, it's whatever suits the music. A lot of big band stuff seems to sound good with four on the floor. But there's no "most common" kick/snare pattern. I think that's the beauty of jazz! Just get used to where your triplets sit on the metronome.

I played through all sorts of exercises on the kit to get my jazz playing up. Ted Reed's Syncopation helped. As well as having a really, really good teacher.
 
Hahaha duly scorned on the Casio remark! I'll behave.

I think Caddywumpus is talking sense here, I don't ever remember having to learn 'staples' of jazz. What I do remember is having a jazz independence book and underneath the swing ride and off-eat hi hat was ever possible combination of bass drum and snare patterns.
I'd learn each one at various tempos then try to run through the whole page without missing a beat on any of them.

That did not teach me taste, not even close. But it gave me the ability to place bass drums and snare where I want at any given time.

I think listening to alot of that style is what gives people authentic sounding taste and the knowledge of what to do. Even if you're ripping people off at first, that will turn into real improv eventually. Plus there's nothing wrong with stealing from the best...
 
Most common? ummmm, yeah a large amount is based off the classic swing beat which is roughly 4 quarter notes on the bass drum, snare and hats on 2 and 4 and quarter note on 1 and 3 and triplet with an 8th rest on the second note of the triplet on 2 and 4 on the ride. the ride pattern is typically written as quarter 2 8ths quarter 2 8ths. Thats a good place to start any unfamiliar jazz number but in order to actually play the song well you'll be adding accents and changing the ride pattern and snare and bass hits to bring out what the other musicians are doing. And that entirely depends on the song and your taste as a musician.
 
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