Weather cast upon...

Let's move to Mars!

It's been mighty cold here in Norway, but I don't think it's because of the climate changes.
Some people say that the ancient have already been to Mars.
Others say that some of us still can go there, in a flash.
But it does seem quite more inhospitable than these here parts.
It is indeed very cold up there in Norway, though some of its glaciers are diminishing by the hour, is it not so?
 
I don't think it's possible with 6 billion people (and rising fast), all aspiring to have a house, car, a range of electronic goods, nice clothes etc. Something's got to give. I do feel that, ethically, living well includes being mindful of what we consume and the non-human lives / habitats that have been lost so we can have our goodies.

This whole thing feels like being in a massive ocean liner with a turning circle of 10kms and watching it heading towards an iceberg that's 2 kms away ... most of us seem to take a similar fatalistic view as the band that played on while the Titanic sank. Might as well go down swinging ...
Pockets will have to be hurt and tables are to be turned, since we're not the band aboard the giant cruiser who could do nothing to stop the end of the disaster!
 
This we know, but we could be here forever, had we done the right things!


I wonder if there was a neanderthal man right at the end with the same thoughts, just before a homo sapien crushed his skull with a rock?

Sounds like something Jack Handey would say : )
 
"Unfortunately, the prophets of climate doom violate this idea. No matter what happens, it always confirms their basic premise that the world is getting hotter. The weather turns cold and wet? It's global warming, they say. Weather turns hot? Global warming. No change? Global warming. More hurricanes? Global warming. No hurricanes? You guessed it."

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...2221907/The-Abiding-Faith-Of-Warm-ongers.aspx
I don't know about any such prophets, but the undeniable fact is that the globe is getting warmer. It has happened before. It will happen again. The action of our kind only contribute to make it hotter than before, this time. The effects can be misleading, and the quote tries to mislead and perhaps invalidate some of what goes on within this broader view, by just narrowing it down into something such as maniac confusion.
 
I wonder if there was a neanderthal man right at the end with the same thoughts, just before a homo sapien crushed his skull with a rock?

Sounds like something Jack Handey would say : )
There seems to be new evidence that we have breeded with the neanderthal!
There is also evidence that our kind has been around for way more longer than known or accepted by history, but that's another story...
 
I don't know about any such prophets, but the undeniable fact is that the globe is getting warmer. It has happened before. It will happen again. The action of our kind only contribute to make it hotter than before, this time. The effects can be misleading, and the quote tries to mislead and perhaps invalidate some of what goes on within this broader view, by just narrowing it down into something such as maniac confusion.

Everything I have read (and all of the data collected) seems to point to the earth actually *cooling*, since roughly 1998. Looking back in history, a trend emerges. Europe went through a warming phase in the middle-ages which fertilized vast amounts of new farmland, thus causing the population to grow and thrive. Prior to that, there had been a sort of mini "ice age", preventing migration onto the continent.

Honestly, this global warming religion is out of control. What environmental zealots prefer is a global socialist society, with a handful of people in charge. It's no conspiracy, it's the actions of western states that tell the story. All states and their fascist benefactors are clamoring at the opportunity to suck the lifeblood out of productive people, who are actually contributing to the welfare of society.

Climategate showed the world the ugly truth - that global warming "science" is nothing more than botched guesswork thrown together by gov't-sponsored scientists, intentionally skewed to favor the viewpoint of the state. The ends would be global climate regulation that would stifle and destroy both developed and developing economies. Anything for more power and control.
 
Everything I have read (and all of the data collected) seems to point to the earth actually *cooling*, since roughly 1998.

The science is exactly the opposite to what you say - the top 11 warmest years on record have all been in the last 13 years -
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071213101419.htm

I find scientists more credible rather than the commentariat. The fact that journos consistently confuse climate and weather doesn't help.
 
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The science is exactly the opposite to what you say - the top 11 warmest years on record have all been in the last 13 years -
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071213101419.htm

I find scientists more credible rather than the commentariat. The fact that journos consistently confuse climate and weather doesn't help.

I guess it depends on which "scientists" you ask and which data you refer to, and how far back your data goes. Clearly the "scientists" of the Climategate scandal aren't any more trustworthy than your average government liar or journalist (not to be redundant.)

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index...-cooling-sea-levels-not-rising-scientists-say
"As the U.S. Senate prepares to consider enormously expensive cap-and-trade legislation, supposedly aimed at curbing alleged global warming caused by man-made emissions, scientists and policy makers at a conference in Chicago heard from experts in various scientific fields challenging the crumbling assumptions that have provided the foundation for global-warming alarmism."

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/285746#ixzz19XDwlbR3
"The scientists’ analysis is based on the natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, which is contradictory to other scientists' belief that the North Pole will be free of ice by the summer of 2013. However, according to the US National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado, arctic sea ice has increased by more than 26 per cent, or 409,000 square miles, since 2007, reports the Washington Times."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=68277
"Morano also notes that between 1940 and 1975, the earth's temperature cooled even though CO2 levels rose. And global warming alarmists, he notes, have failed to explain the lack of a correlation between rising CO2 and rising temperatures, a theory that Al Gore promotes in his movie An Inconvenient Truth."

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2554128.htm
"None of that is necessary according to Ian Plimer, a two-time Eureka prize winner who is Emeritus professor of earth science at Melbourne University and professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide.

He says human emissions of carbon dioxide do not create global warming; he claims there is no global warming at all because temperatures are actually dropping and that geology shows that climate change is part of the earth's natural cycle."

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/w...who-beats-weather-experts-20101221-1945a.html
"The question is whether anthropogenic global warming is the exclusive or dominant fact that determines our climate, or whether Corbyn is also right to insist on the role of the Sun. Is it possible that everything we do is dwarfed by the moods of the star that gives life to the world? The Sun is incomparably vaster and more powerful than any work of man. We are forged from a few clods of solar dust. The Sun powers every plant and form of life, and one day the Sun will turn into a red giant and engulf us all. Then it will burn out. Then it will get very nippy indeed."

...and so on, and so forth. I've read literally hundreds of articles over the years like this, clearly indicating that no science has been settled on the issue. It's clear that most of the rhetoric used by the "Anthropomorphic Climate Change" crowd is BS, not back by any hard science, but rather mired in intentionally botched data to favor their view, and that of the state...for obvious reasons.

It's more likely that climate and weather patterns are based on solar activity. We appear to be in a "Maunder Minimum" where when the sun grows quiet, the earth grows cold.
 
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No it won't hurt us, although it certainly might hurt a wealth of healthy pockets!

Not really, new cleaner technologies, recycled products, cleaner sources of energy etc. have been creating plenty of new jobs. Kinda like when we all thought we'd lose our jobs to the computer only to find a tech job or spin-off jobs.
 
I guess it depends on which "scientists" you ask and which data you refer to, and how far back your data goes. Clearly the "scientists" of the Climategate scandal aren't any more trustworthy than your average government liar or journalist (not to be redundant.)

Climategate was a lifeline for climate change skeptics. In politics one bad apple spoils the barrel, in science one bad apple is just one bad apple. Guess which area gets the media's attention?

Unlike you, I am not so politically-inclined and don't care for your tactic of using disparaging inverted commas or those little insults - "zealots", "alarmists" etc. That's what tabloids do and, in my experience, when people use those tactics they are trying to shut down their "opponents".

The "scientists" you refer to are actually scientists. Let's not pretend that they haven't done the hard yards -hard yards of study that neither of us have done. The vast majority of scientists believe there are issues re: AGW. If you look for reasons not to believe them, you will always find them. So it goes.

The simple fact is that the earth is getting warmer and carbon dioxide traps heat and we are greatly increasing its concentration in the atmosphere.

The findings of 96% of climatologists point to human activity having an impact on the earth's temperature. Even amongst the biggest doubters - geologists and meteorologists - almost half of them think humans affect climate.

If I want to know about the earth's crust or the weather (not to be confused with climate) I'll ask a geologist or meteorologist. If I want to know about climate, then I'll ask a climatologist. I'm not going to ask a drummer about playing the harp either.
 
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Everything I have read (and all of the data collected) seems to point to the earth actually *cooling*, since roughly 1998. Looking back in history, a trend emerges. Europe went through a warming phase in the middle-ages which fertilized vast amounts of new farmland, thus causing the population to grow and thrive. Prior to that, there had been a sort of mini "ice age", preventing migration onto the continent.

Honestly, this global warming religion is out of control. What environmental zealots prefer is a global socialist society, with a handful of people in charge. It's no conspiracy, it's the actions of western states that tell the story. All states and their fascist benefactors are clamoring at the opportunity to suck the lifeblood out of productive people, who are actually contributing to the welfare of society.

Climategate showed the world the ugly truth - that global warming "science" is nothing more than botched guesswork thrown together by gov't-sponsored scientists, intentionally skewed to favor the viewpoint of the state. The ends would be global climate regulation that would stifle and destroy both developed and developing economies. Anything for more power and control.
So it does seem that you are a true specialist, a scientist, a climatologist, one who has heard all about the subject and has examined all of data so far collected.
Well, maybe the data collected by the scientists of the Ice Core project has escaped your perception.
First off, NO ONE is saying that the cooling of the planet will make it hotter and boil our brains off (as it will and has done, in certains spots of the globe, btw), only that the consequences of such cooling may cause a lot of localized troubles, exactly as it is happening right now.
There was no such thing as "climegate" if you're indeed well aware about the complete development of the facts concerned, which name was yet another fabrication of the same kind of people you claim to be ushering us into being controled by fear.
You seem to know very well about the hidden objectives of such birds of prey, but then why is it so that all countries are now starting to develop a clear trend towards the use of cleaner energy sources, other than the oil/charcoal/CO2 based ones?
Perhaps you should start to ask yourself those kinds of questions before pointing the right finger in the wrong direction, that is, the powers that be have been using and abusing the use of expensive and dirty sources of energy when there always have been much cheaper and cleaner ones.
The way you seem to see it, the only way for any country to become developed is to adopt a model that has been proven itself as hazardous to the health of the planet and its inhabitants, such as you and myself.
I urge you to get your facts straight before keeping up with this trend of thought, and you can easily start to do so by reading Elizabeth Kolbert's book and the Ice Memory article.
 
Space is but 20 miles above our heads and it is a hostile place. Earth has always been riding a delicate wave just this side of destruction by the radioactivity and heat generated by the sun.

Funnily enough I recently bought about 60 TV specials about space and the universe. The biggest danger to our immediate existence, if these people are to be believed, is meteors crashing into Earth.

Following this is the damage being done to the rather precious 20 miles of safety and protection guarded by the ozone layer. Which according to the Climate change council, or whatever its called, is very real. (The report can be read online.)

But don't worry too much because Earth's destruction is assured. The sun, just like all suns will eventually go supernova and extend out past the Earth and swallow it up.

Basically, we're doomed.
 
No offense to anyone.

People that can't enter polite debate without resorting to under handed comments, tend to search for an argument.

Trying to argue this will get you nowhere. Some say Scientists are wrong, some say you asked the wrong scientists, some try to turn everything political.

I prefer facts, not speculation.
 
GD, all Al did was turn hard science into popular science to raise public awareness. The vast majority of scientists who work in related areas and who aren't aligned to political think tanks believe there's a major problem. Like I said, I'll listen to them on the subject before I listen to anyone else, especially politicos.

For a little balance to this conversation:
My father, a retired structural engineer whose specialty was power, (he designed power plants of all kinds but nuclear was his specialty. He was used as an expert by the Atomic Energy Commission and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission testifying before these commissions as they were setting up the regulations for the power industry. His sub-specialty was making these plants safer and cleaner. Since I am not a scientist and, often, don't know who to trust in the public debate over these issues, I refer to my Dad whom I trust greatly. Here is a shorthand version of a conversation with my dad;
Dad, when I bought my diesel pickup in 2001 the price of diesel was almost a dollar under the cost of reg. unleaded gas. Now it is 2003 and the cost of diesel is almost a dollar more than the cost of reg. unleaded. It takes more refining to get gas from oil than it does to get diesel. Why is diesel more expensive?
His reply: Well Steve, contrary to popular belief, the earth is getting cooler. The winters are getting longer and colder. In refining, first there is heating oil, refine some more you get diesel, refine some more you get gasoline. the refinery's are at capacity. We are importing record amounts of ready made gasoline because we cannot refine enough ourselves. Since the need for heating oil has increased and the need for gasoline has not diminished and we are still importing ready made, the refining capacity for diesel has diminished. The laws of supply and demand are in play. There is less supply of diesel so the price has increased.
I suggest that "An Inconvenient Truth" (whose science has been rebuked by many who helped construct) was a political shot at 'Big Oil'. Follow the money that has been gifted to Big Al and his car company. Outside the US by the way.
When the world gets too confusing, we all try to find someone to trust for truth and reason. I look to my dad.
 
... My father, a retired structural engineer whose specialty was power,

... His reply: Well Steve, contrary to popular belief, the earth is getting cooler. The winters are getting longer and colder.

Climatologists say the earth is getting warmer and the "cooling" is simply weather fluctuations within the broader trends of climate:

http://www.aussmc.org/documents/waiting-for-global-cooling.pdf

Not knocking your dad. If I wanted to know about structural engineering I'd listen to him before I'd listen to a climatologist.
 
Climatologists say the earth is getting warmer and the "cooling" is simply weather fluctuations within the broader trends of climate:

http://www.aussmc.org/documents/waiting-for-global-cooling.pdf

Not knocking your dad. If I wanted to know about structural engineering I'd listen to him before I'd listen to a climatologist.

The only climatologist that ever got it right was george carlin- ' forcast for tonight...dark continuing to widely scattered light in the morning.'

I get your point, Polly, however, only some climatologists say the earth is getting warmer, some say it is changing but not hanging their hat on warmer. Some jumped on the politic bandwagon for 15 min. of fame.
I am not a scientist so who of these climatologist's should I believe?

I know you are not knocking my dad and you don't know him at all.
My point is, when I cannot navigate all the crap in the science I look to someone who can.
 
I get your point, Polly, however, only some climatologists say the earth is getting warmer, some say it is changing but not hanging their hat on warmer. Some jumped on the politic bandwagon for 15 min. of fame.
I am not a scientist so who of these climatologist's should I believe?

Remember that climate is observable over decades, not years. The trend in mean average global temps over the long term is clear - the globe is warming. There is still room for uncertainty as to what's caused this, or what will happen in the future.
 
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