Double Stroke technique advice

Hello guys,

So I know there is a lot of threads about double strokes but I thought this scenario was pretty unique, but could be wrong.

I have never really took the time to learn one particular technique, it just kind of came as I developed my fingers and I didn't really know how I was doing them... it just kind of happened and sounded even which was the main thing.

So I go to my teacher this week and he says it looks as though I am using the finger technique for the 2 strokes (both strokes when playing the double using pretty much all fingers for both).... he says that he recommends learning the other way of doing doubles such as alley-oop or open/close (however you refer to it).

My question to you guys is do you see much problem with my current way and is there any limitations with the technique I am using, compared to using another? I seem to get good speed doing it as well.

Many thanks for any help.

Never really thought of the "open/close" as a particularly fast technique, at least insofar as double strokes. More of a less tense and fatiguing way of sustained ride patterns and a way to get a bit of swing into them.

Just turned to the practice pad and I suppose there's a sort of open/close thing in that my wrist goes down and the fingers snap the stick while the wrist goes back up on the second stroke. I learned this for the "hot skillet" Jim Chapin videos. Less travel in the fingers than what I would do with a ride pattern.

Why not learn all of it? I'm busy working on the finger technique to get those 12 stroke parallel things blues players do all the time without tensing up. All of it comes into play at times.

It would be helpful to see what you are doing.

But if your instructor recommends differently, there may be a problem with your technique going forward.

Aeolian said:

Never really thought of the "open/close" as a particularly fast technique, at least insofar as double strokes. More of a less tense and fatiguing way of sustained ride patterns and a way to get a bit of swing into them.

Just turned to the practice pad and I suppose there's a sort of open/close thing in that my wrist goes down and the fingers snap the stick while the wrist goes back up on the second stroke. I learned this for the "hot skillet" Jim Chapin videos. Less travel in the fingers than what I would do with a ride pattern.

Why not learn all of it? I'm busy working on the finger technique to get those 12 stroke parallel things blues players do all the time without tensing up. All of it comes into play at times.

Click to expand...

I think I am doing the snap-back finger technique after the primary wrist stroke though, it's hard to tell but it don't look all fingers to me like my teacher said cos my wrists are clearly moving.

Here's a short demo I made hopefully it helps a bit..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hy_-Ux85iY

Grumpyone1 said:

I think I am doing the snap-back finger technique after the primary wrist stroke though, it's hard to tell but it don't look all fingers to me like my teacher said cos my wrists are clearly moving.

Here's a short demo I made hopefully it helps a bit..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hy_-Ux85iY

Click to expand...

It looks like mostly fingers doing the work, but yeah there is some wrist motion. You might want to put some work into your fulcrum and get that solid first, though. It would be more beneficial for you to play a very slow, deliberate double stroke roll to fine-tune what you are doing.

At slower and moderate tempos, I much prefer the thumb on top of the stick and a balanced finger/hand/wrist/forearm approach for most applications.

When you work up to high tempos, the fulcrum releases, more in line with the way you are approaching it. I think it's been called drop/bounce but don't quote me on that.
jmo

Is your fulcrum tied between index finger and thumb, or middle finger and thumb?
Could you possibly involve more of the pinky during snap back? Are you trying to accent the 2nd stroke of the double? What tempo can you consistenly and comfortably keep during, say, one minute?

JohnRick said:

Is your fulcrum tied between index finger and thumb, or middle finger and thumb?
Could you possibly involve more of the pinky during snap back? Are you trying to accent the 2nd stroke of the double? What tempo can you consistenly and comfortably keep during, say, one minute?

Click to expand...

If my pinky can get under the stick yes, most of the time it kind of snuggles just behind my 4th finger oddly, on my left hand only. The right hand pinky always comes in to play on the stick like it normally should.

My fulcrum isn't displayed well on that video as I was trying to just give you guys a quick demonstration of the technique I use for doubles at a slightly faster tempo.

But usually I have the index finger as a guide and not resting under the stick like on that video at slower tempos. As the tempo increases that index finger will go under the stick like on the video for extra support.

When I last purposely tried to do a double speed test with a metronome I could do around 180bpm fairly comfortably.

Brian said:

It looks like mostly fingers doing the work, but yeah there is some wrist motion. You might want to put some work into your fulcrum and get that solid first, though. It would be more beneficial for you to play a very slow, deliberate double stroke roll to fine-tune what you are doing.

At slower and moderate tempos, I much prefer the thumb on top of the stick and a balanced finger/hand/wrist/forearm approach for most applications.

When you work up to high tempos, the fulcrum releases, more in line with the way you are approaching it. I think it's been called drop/bounce but don't quote me on that.
jmo

Click to expand...

So you mean French grip? Or do you still use like an American where the thumb is half way between kind of thing.

I don't know how to develop that finger snap-back (whatever it's called) technique because people say it isn't the open/close technique but it always looks really similar to that for me.

Grumpyone1 said:

So you mean French grip? Or do you still use like an American where the thumb is half way between kind of thing.

I don't know how to develop that finger snap-back (whatever it's called) technique because people say it isn't the open/close technique but it always looks really similar to that for me.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and even my German grip the thumb is not to the side, the index is on the stick near the first joint. It's not until I reach a higher speed that the index loosens up and the thumb might slide down some, so it's more of a backhanded approach more similar to what you are using.

It sounds like you are working counter-intuitive, having the index cradling the stick more at higher tempos. My index comes off the stick and the fulcrum loosens up when I reach a certain speed, as it tends to choke the movement of the stick.

The snap is imo more for the french grip and it's not something I use much, if I do it's not something I'm thinking about.

My doubles are weird.. I use a combination of free stroke and push pull. I let the stick bounce then snap down on the second stroke with my fingers. This then this sets up the double again. Surprisingly enough I can do this now on surfaces with hardly and rebound with still the same accuracy.

I would say my grip depends on the playing situation and where my hands are going. My grip if you want to call it would be a mixture of French and American. I find with my thumb facing upwards or slightly to the side, it helps my execution. This is a personal preference. I am sure people have other ways.