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  #1  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:34 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

...

Hello everyone! Its been awhile!

So I go this club which showcases live music, 3 days a week. The club owner is a friend. I happen to be in town, so I mosey down for a couple of beers and a hang.

He tells me there's this band with a great singer who's going to perform tonight. I consider myself lucky to have shown up on a good night.

I'm early and the band comes in for a sound check. Its a rock n roll/blues band, nothing too grungy or complicated or anything.

The singer, who appears to be a real prima donna is fussing about the mic, levels, reverb etc etc... Im almost impressed. As the band gets going on the sound check, I discover to my surprise that the singer is off-pitch......Wayyyyy off pitch.
I turn in shock towards the club owner who is sitting with me. To my surprise, he has a benign smile on his face and seems to be enjoying the proceedings. Im saying to myself that this cant be right because she cant sing... maybe shes a roadie, checking levels or something.

But its her alright. The club is pretty full an hour later and the band kicks in and sure enough, she's singing off pitch. I look around me and the crowd is loving it. The club owner sidles up to me and whispers " isnt she fantastic?"

For the sake of clarity, Im old but not that old, some tinnitis and hearing loss but not deaf, some substance abuse in my youth, but I was down just 2 beers that night.

I dont get it.

Is it me or does bad music not matter in some places, to some people?


...
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Was she really pretty?
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Hi stranger!

First thoughts are does she look good? Does she put on a show? Did the audience find the lyrics engaging? These things seem to matter more to punters than what they hear.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Now that is unusual. Of all the things that an audience notice, out of pitch vocals is top of the list. Ok, overall band vibe can trump even bad pitching, & mask to a certain degree, but it's still a performance killer.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:04 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

...

Well, attractive enough I guess, but not " my sexual power will numb your senses into believing that my Bflat is actually A" attractive. On second thoughts, lyrics were kind of interesting.. word association type abstract stuff.. but a bad note is a bad note, y'all.


...
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:06 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Today I was watching this:
"Yoko Ono Screaming Song Live at Art Show!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZ9weP5i68
and this:
"WE'RE ALL WATER by Yoko Ono"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZvHuh7wKM

Listen to all the clapping an cheering, some people, for whatever reason seem to really like it, the ones that don't usually keep it to themselves and others pretend that they do like it (unless it's the internet).
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obzen View Post
Today I was watching this:
"Yoko Ono Screaming Song Live at Art Show!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZ9weP5i68
and this:
"WE'RE ALL WATER by Yoko Ono"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZvHuh7wKM

Listen to all the clapping an cheering, some people, for whatever reason seem to really like it, the ones that don't usually keep it to themselves and others pretend that they do like it (unless it's the internet).
Wow ---- really not good :(
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obzen View Post
Today I was watching this:
"Yoko Ono Screaming Song Live at Art Show!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZ9weP5i68
and this:
"WE'RE ALL WATER by Yoko Ono"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZvHuh7wKM

Listen to all the clapping an cheering, some people, for whatever reason seem to really like it, the ones that don't usually keep it to themselves and others pretend that they do like it (unless it's the internet).
I thought the first performance was interesting for a while, but then she didn't know where to take it and just held it down and played safe. I've seen voice noise artists take it a whole lot further.

The second link, well, the only reason a band like that would go near a vocalist like that is a big name and big money.

So Abe, the lyrics were interesting ... and delivered with passion and conviction (even if flat)?
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

I wonder if the band held auditions for the vocalist?

First one turns up, great voice, Band say "sorry you have not got the gig, you were in key.....all the time".

Unless of course Its her band and her PA.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obzen View Post
Today I was watching this:
"Yoko Ono Screaming Song Live at Art Show!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZ9weP5i68
and this:
"WE'RE ALL WATER by Yoko Ono"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZvHuh7wKM

Listen to all the clapping an cheering, some people, for whatever reason seem to really like it, the ones that don't usually keep it to themselves and others pretend that they do like it (unless it's the internet).
Wow. Just. Wow....
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  #11  
Old 08-09-2012, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

I don't see anything too way out. Concrete dadaist art has been around for a long time now. I've seen a guy fiddling with a radio noise gizmo while blowing a sax filled with water. Not my thing but some people enjoy it.

The second clip was ... disappointing lol
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2012, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

ALP- "some substance abuse when I was younger and tinnitis"

Is this something that actually needs to be said here? I thought that was a prerequisite on the entrance exam... We need a thread on this..
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2012, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
I dont get it...
Me either... but, as it is said "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"... music is an art form, and everything and anything is possible within that respect.

In music we also have the sound to cope with the visuals, and it can be somehow "surprising" to say the least, have you ever been to a modern art gallery? Surely, if some of the paintings could "sing", I think it will be waayy out of key and very dissonant :))
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Sounds like an episode of "The Twilight Zone".
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

Well, attractive enough I guess, but not " my sexual power will numb your senses into believing that my Bflat is actually A" attractive.

...
One of the best descriptions of a sexy woman I've ever heard! I want to be her...lol. Except I would numb you into thinking I was actually a drummer who could make you believe a simple rock beat sounded like a Gene Krupa tom solo :)
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Easy answer - the people filling up the club must have been her friends and/or friends of the band. Family & friends often are tone deaf, if you know what I mean.

p.s. This doesn't explain Celine Dion's rise to popularity though :(
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  #17  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Did anyone ever stop listening to Bob Dyland because of his voice or lack thereof? Or Johnny Cash, or Doctor John.? Sometimes it just doesn't matter
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

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Did anyone ever stop listening to Bob Dyland because of his voice or lack thereof?
Not exactly, I never started to listen to Bob Dylan because of his voice (sorry Duncan).
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

I'm not surprised, our guitarist sounds like he is playing with boxing gloves on. Due to his lack of skill on the guitar when he learns a song if he does not know the coreect chord he will find one that sounds close. Been that way for years and we work 120 gigs a year avereage. This past year we added a real guitarist and replaced our bass player with a Berkelee professor so now we at least sound like a real band but some of the old tunes are still played wrong. The audience could care less. It's only Rock & Roll
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

I believe this singer is quite well known, apparently :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2JMYq6Tevw
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  #21  
Old 08-09-2012, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Have you ever seen the early American Idol auditions?How many "singers" were just mind numbingly terrible,to a point where you're saying to yourself...."how can this person NOT know they suck".Then when the're told no by the judges,they are seen leaving the audition room,and there's 20-30 people waiting outside,and the're all mystified,as to why the "singer" didn't pass the audition?Mass hypnosis maybe?

I'm convinced the're more than just a few people out there,who just can't hear "out of tune",but if they can dance to it.....it's all good.

I never understood the "noise performance artist "thing.It seems to fly in the face of every musician and singer,who strives to play and sing the note as perfectly as possible.So the water logged sax player,and the Yoko Ono's of the planet,can take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.Love may be blind,but my ears still function,and just because you look god,dosen't mean you can sound good.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2012, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
...just because you look good,dosen't mean you can sound good.
... Katy Perry always looks and sounds good to me :) *no need for Mikey's drum key here*
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  #23  
Old 08-09-2012, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Not exactly, I never started to listen to Bob Dylan because of his voice (sorry Duncan).
Apology accepted.

I find this really bizarre too. Out of context, out-of-pitch singing is just bad and very, very noticeable. I've come across (and backed) a fair few singers (on guitar and drums) that have pitching problems and quite often have had to accompany them for a few lines on backing just so that the pitch goes back in.

A lot of the time, it's actually a confidence issue. I remember seeing a show at college (we had to go) where a singer with nerves had been given 'Take My Breath Away'. Now, terrible song though that is it's a very exposed vocal part and if you're prone to losing the pitch then that's just about the worst song to sing because it's very obvious.

In my experience, out-of-pitch singers come in two categories. Those that sing out-of-pitch because they can't or aren't listening to themselves (monitoring is a big thing here) and those that don't have enough confidence on stage and are concentrating so hard on singing that they're not actually listening to themselves. It's very rare that I come across somebody that genuinely can't tell the pitch; although there have been a few.

Very odd that nobody called on it. Very odd indeed.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

I dunno.

Many hit records have been made with vocals that are a bit "off".

And then some vocalists are only capable of singing in ONE key, and only a few notes in that key. So they have that ONE song in the right key and range they they sound good on that gets them a following, but live, when the band attempts to play in more than one key or note out of that range, it sounds awful. I've seen that happen.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Cher has been fooling them her whole career. Apparantly she is tone deaf and alot gets tweeked in the studio.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

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I dunno.

Many hit records have been made with vocals that are a bit "off".

And then some vocalists are only capable of singing in ONE key, and only a few notes in that key. So they have that ONE song in the right key and range they they sound good on that gets them a following, but live, when the band attempts to play in more than one key or note out of that range, it sounds awful. I've seen that happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UWtcSvtiQw

On that note... (I'm so witty).
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UWtcSvtiQw

On that note... (I'm so witty).
Wonderful!!!



....
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

You'd be suprised how easy it is to get by with just the attitude sometimes. My band isn't fantastic, and I'm not even a good drummer. But I've seen TERRIBLE bands play, and just because they acted like hard asses, they got loads of praise.

It's a two sides coin, because you also have places where, no matter how nice you are, if you suck, you'll get told you suck...
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I believe this singer is quite well known, apparently :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2JMYq6Tevw
I love her. No really, I love her. I think her songs are fantastic and I have the hots for her in ways I can't even describe.

I totally get that she's a little rough live, but I also love the fact that she really does sing live (clams and all), instead of lip syncing!

EDIT - By the way, I'm not arguing any points. I just wanted to say how much I love Katy Perry. :)
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:42 PM
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Wonderful!!!



....
Yes :)





..............
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Could it be that he wants to keep on the right side of her for reasons of "friendship" and therefore tolerates her bad singing? Wouldn't be the first time, would it?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

One of my favourite bands at the moment are a bit shaky live. What I don't get is if you're in a full time professional band, what's so hard about taking the odd lesson? And they obviously rehearse, so why not focus on getting the vocals right?

The rough edges suit the style they're doing, but there are certain notes that need to be bang on pitch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQXiuSgMn8U
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Quote:
...there are certain notes that need to be bang on pitch...
I agree. For instance, the notes A, Bb, B, C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, Gb, G, and Ab should all be bang on. The others I care less about.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:42 AM
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I agree. For instance, the notes A, Bb, B, C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, Gb, G, and Ab should all be bang on. The others I care less about.
+1!

................................
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:53 AM
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Have you ever seen the early American Idol auditions?How many "singers" were just mind numbingly terrible,to a point where you're saying to yourself...."how can this person NOT know they suck".
I think we forget what it was like before we became "musicians". Non musicians hear things differently.

Remember how awesome you sounded when you first started playing? I sounded AMAZING back then. Now I am a far better drummer and I'm very, very ordinary. The price we pay for the loss of musical innocence is to suffer through music we may have otherwise enjoyed.


Quote:
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I never understood the "noise performance artist "thing.It seems to fly in the face of every musician and singer,who strives to play and sing the note as perfectly as possible.So the water logged sax player,and the Yoko Ono's of the planet,can take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.
There we differ. I find the noise thing interesting and Yoko's howling performance was very brave. I mean, to stand there making out you're serious while yowling away like a banshee in front of all those people ... I don't care how rich and famous she is, that takes guts!

Some people are irritated by it but I love it when people do crazy things ... it's entertaining, often funny, reassures me of how normal I am ...
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Did anyone ever stop listening to Bob Dyland because of his voice or lack thereof? Or Johnny Cash, or Doctor John.? Sometimes it just doesn't matter
But they didn't sing off pitch. And they had style.

I'd say a part of it could be that people seem to be attractive to vocal gymnastics these days. And their ears can't really follow what's in pitch or not. But most likely it's just that it's a female.

But there's a lesson to be learned here. Whatever you do -- do it with conviction. If you can't dazzle 'em with talent, confuse 'em with bullshit.

And as always -- you can fool some of the people some of the time, but...
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:33 PM
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...

Interesting comments. Just to clarify, it wasn't a stylistic thing like Dylan or some of the other examples posted here. Nor was it intended to be a musical statement in " dissonance".

It was closer to what Plangent said- - Lots of vocal runs with bum notes... An amatuer pretending to be a pro.

Having said that, I agree with Grea, that musicians or serious music lovers have slightly different ears than the rest of the crowd. What I found amazing was it didnt really bother anybody. ( unless everybody in the club was one of her friends.. ). I do wonder sometimes, even at live venues, how much of what goes on is just background stuff... muzak, drinks, food, laughter.. is anybody really listening? Only other musicians react to bum not violently, I guess.


...

Last edited by aydee; 08-11-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

People probably went to the club to have a good time, in spite of the music.

Maybe if it was a concert or a showcase there would have been a few boos, but as background music, they might have been little more than a noisy prop.

I have had great times listening to crappy bands. I have also made my contribution to a few crappy musical situations where afterward, we were jollied and back slapped as though we were the second coming of the fab four.

When I was living up north I was invited to jam with a couple of friends who were excited that they had talked the girl who was the "second place finalist" for a local so you think you can sing competition into jamming with us. These guys were fawning all over her as though she were some kind of Joni Mitchell. Sadly, this girl could not carry a tune in a plastic sack, but from my vantage point, she looked like Shania Twain (bless you Lulu Lemon).

To me, the concert scene at the end of the Music Man stands out as a great lesson on musical appreciation.

Barry,
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
But they didn't sing off pitch. And they had style.

I'd say a part of it could be that people seem to be attractive to vocal gymnastics these days. And their ears can't really follow what's in pitch or not. But most likely it's just that it's a female.

But there's a lesson to be learned here. Whatever you do -- do it with conviction. If you can't dazzle 'em with talent, confuse 'em with bullshit.

And as always -- you can fool some of the people some of the time, but...
I will respectfully disagree. Bob Dylan was never on pitch. should have stuck to lyrics. And Doctor John had lifelong after throat surgery sounding gruffness. Johnny Cash spoke more lyrics than he sang. It will always be this way, and out side of the autotune studio we will never know.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:26 AM
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Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
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Default Re: I dont get it ( everybody else does, it seems )

Nelson, you raised a good point about Dylan having style - but I agree with GD that he sang an awful lot of flat notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
But there's a lesson to be learned here. Whatever you do -- do it with conviction.
100% agree. Conviction is huge - Monk, Sun Ra and Moonie knew that.


I'm imagining the scene - she's up there and looking confident, wailing her heart out out. Everyone thinks "cool". But since she's out of tune the band doesn't hold their attention. So they go back to socialising.

Behind all the talk there's some vaguely appropriate sounds going on.

Then the song ends and the singer is caterwauling her big ending, arms flung wide, the band's having a little shred ... wha? huh? Oh yeah ... the song's ended. Yay! Yay! Clap clap. Back to conversation / pickup / drink negotiations ...

Most people don't give a sh1t about music and half the time they listen with their eyes. So it goes.
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