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  #81  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:59 AM
Anthony Amodeo
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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I thought so.

Didn't know they didn't play live much though. Why not? The hysteria?
pretty much yeah

no one was listening ...just screaming

and I think there were death threats and what not after John said they were more important than Jesus.......a quote taken out of context by the way
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  #82  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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pretty much yeah

no one was listening ...just screaming

and I think there were death threats and what not after John said they were more important than Jesus.......a quote taken out of context by the way
Cool, thanks for the info!
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  #83  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I agree with MAD and others on here. When it came down to the song he got it right and that's what counts.

I take it your a hardcore Beatle fan Gruntersdad?

I see waht you were saying and your right, but only from one side. it's great to blend in but, not all music calls for it so you can't right off all drummers as none-musicians because of not always blending. Nearly all instruments will jump in and out or take the lead in different styles. there's nothing wrong with that and contrary to popular belief it's not a crime for the drums to take lead once in a while. It'a all sound and together it makes music, why do so many drummers think they are the foundation and nothing more?
Isn't that narrowing your musical potential?

But I agree, it sounds awesome for alot thibgs and Ringo is great.

I don't want to anger you further and I don't believe this is the case but, when it comes to PR and stuff YES they would shoot pics of him in the studio then get someone else in. The entertainment business is full of BS and lies and seens as The Beatles taught Michael Jackson a few tricks on PR I think they'd be savvy enough to do this.

However, even though I'm not a huge Beatles fan, it sounds like him to me and didn't he play his parts just fine live too? Why would they need a replacement?
I would suggest watching the entire of the Beatles Anthology where there is plenty of video of Ringo in the studio. And I don't get angry just disappointed that people supposedly in the know have no proof of anyone else playing but will play the rumor game. Especially pros
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  #84  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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I would suggest watching the entire of the Beatles Anthology where there is plenty of video of Ringo in the studio. And I don't get angry just disappointed that people supposedly in the know have no proof of anyone else playing but will play the rumor game. Especially pros
It's probably just a form of hating. Ringo seems loved by everyone but the majority of drummers. Seems a bit daft to me.

Plus, if he wasn't up to scratch or had nothing to offer Paul and John don't seem like the type of guys to just live with that. They would have just gotten someone who could. They had their pick of the world if they wanted.

So even if there was no proof either way I'd STILL believe it was Ringo on the records. Peopls love rumours though...
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  #85  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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They would have just gotten someone who could.
They already did.

Hence why Pete Best never made it into the "Fab Four"
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  #86  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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They already did.

Hence why Pete Best never made it into the "Fab Four"
Well then surely that proves it? Doesn't it?
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  #87  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Let me guess...Good or Bad?
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  #88  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Well then surely that proves it? Doesn't it?
It certainly proves John and Paul thought he was good enough. It also proves George Martin thought he was good enough.

Doesn't prove DMC thinks he's good enough though.
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  #89  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:38 AM
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40 comments on Ringos drumming
http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/drumpage.html

a teaser

George Martin -- "Ringo has a tremendous feel for a song and he always helped us hit the right tempo the first time. He was rock solid. This made the recording of all the Beatle songs so much easier." (interviewed in 1988 for The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn)

Jim Keltner -- "I will always be there to support him. He's more than a dear friend. He's like an idol. He's everything to me. I still think of him musically every time I sit down and play drums. He's a very important guy to me. (Discoveries magazine, April 1993)

John Lennon
"In spite of all things, the Beatles could really play music together when they weren't up tight, and if I get things going Ringo knows where to go just like that and he does well." -- from Lennon Remembers (1971)
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  #90  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

I guess it's a sort of an unintended compliment that it's regarded as plausible that Ringo's tracks were actually played by Keltner or Bernard Purdie. Though I don't know how you could make that mistake while using your ears-- they don't sound alike. I was actually transcribing a post-Beatles Lennon track, which I assumed had Keltner on it, and thought "hey, he's doing a Ringo homage, and he's pretty spot on." I checked the credits and it was Ringo, of course.

Quote:
I will always be there to support him. He's more than a dear friend. He's like an idol. He's everything to me. I still think of him musically every time I sit down and play drums. He's a very important guy to me.
That's a beautiful quote- thanks for that, Gvda...
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  #91  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:05 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

The only song where I felt the time wavered was "Michelle." Other than that, Ringo's time was impeccable.
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  #92  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:11 AM
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The only song where I felt the time wavered was "Michelle." Other than that, Ringo's time was impeccable.
I know exactly what you are talking about and that is actually 2 takes spliced together
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  #93  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:41 AM
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I know exactly what you are talking about and that is actually 2 takes spliced together
Then I blame George Martin. lol Then again, they couldn't change speed without changing pitch back then. How crude!!!
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  #94  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

...

I wonder why we think it is so important to be locked like a metronome on every beat? Who made this rule?

...
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  #95  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

So, who's winning? ...........
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  #96  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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I wonder why we think it is so important to be locked like a metronome on every beat? Who made this rule?
The guy paying top dollar for studio time, I'd wager.

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So, who's winning? ...........
Ringo's bank manager.
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  #97  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:51 AM
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So, who's winning? ...........
The Yankees.

.................
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  #98  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:56 AM
Anthony Amodeo
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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The Yankees.

.................
4 -1 Angels actually

bottom of the 7th
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  #99  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:58 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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...

I wonder why we think it is so important to be locked like a metronome on every beat? Who made this rule?

...
The same guy who made the rule that everyone playing in the same key sounds best?
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  #100  
Old 05-30-2012, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

the "Ringo sucks" arguments never get old for me and continue to make me laugh to no end. of course he's no travis barker, right???? (ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!)
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  #101  
Old 05-30-2012, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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So, who's winning? ...........
Looks like almost everyone is pro Ringo with DMC carrying the anti-Ringo flag. However he would say we're just victims of groupthink. So it goes.

Michelle ... that's the slowdown in the last verse, isn't it? I'd not paid attention to the drumming in that one before - a bland drum track actually. Win some lose some.

I played the song with a dinner band eons ago. It was a blind date and at times I didn't know the songs they were calling. I can't remember how I approached it then, but they called me back so it can't have been too tragic.
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  #102  
Old 05-30-2012, 07:51 AM
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I wonder why we think it is so important to be locked like a metronome on every beat? Who made this rule?
That happened in the 80s with the rise of drum machines and sequencers, didn't it? I guess once that came in, it stuck. Some would say it was a raising of the bar. Others would say it's added to the stiffness of the music scene - and not in a good way :)
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  #103  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:54 AM
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I have books filled with photos of Ringo in the studio recording, and videos of the same thing. A low blow Joe. And I will assume you weren't there so it is just rumor from the dark side.

Other than this forum has anyone heard of Joe Morris??
WHOW!!! So do you really wanna go there? Was that really called for? I don't think so. This is a forum and I can share information and have any opinion I want. There have been stories flying around forever about the subject so i just chimed in my 2 cents. To tell you the truth I don't care who played on the Beatles records. I don't even like the Beatles man.

So why should you even be offended. Were you there? Did you see Ringo track every recording the Beatles ever did? Nope I don't think you did, so you don't really know either do you? I threw it out there to spark conversation not to make anybody mad. If you were offended which I am thinking you are since you said my comment was rude. Who was I rude to? Ringo? lol thats funny.

As far as who ever heard of me before this forum, you will find I have a page here at drummerworld which not just anyone can do. I take that as a real privledge to have a page here. Check out my web site if you like. Trust me I was very well known before I joined this forum, just maybe not to you because your listening to all those old Beatles Records. LOL. !!

Anyway seriously I don't come here to argue or have to blow my own horn. My record speaks for itself and so do my accomplishments. I come here to share information and at times let people know what I am doing by sharing music and video's. I didn't mean to offend you and I apoligize if I did. That was not my intent. I will say though you really had no need to go off like that. You were really the one who was rude, and seriously rude over something that actually had nothing to do with you personally. Why take it like that, is Ringo family to you? Are you cousins or something? Do you know Ringo? Is he your friend? Seriously man, think before you type
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  #104  
Old 05-30-2012, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

I saw an interview tonight on Conan O'brien where Ringo said he couldn't double his fills and that when he played they just came out the way they came out, and he had a hard time repeating his fills. That means they're basically random and he doesn't know what he's going to do. In my opinion that's not good drumming. I love Ringo and the Beatles but I have to be honest, his drumming is over simplistic and sub par. He doesn't drum that way to create his own style, he does it because that's the best he can do.
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  #105  
Old 05-30-2012, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
That happened in the 80s with the rise of drum machines and sequencers, didn't it? I guess once that came in, it stuck. Some would say it was a raising of the bar. Others would say it's added to the stiffness of the music scene - and not in a good way :)
...

I knew someone would get what I was alluding to.

Not much of what we think of as classic tunes would line up over a metronome for 64 bars...

...
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  #106  
Old 05-30-2012, 09:36 AM
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Ringo said he couldn't double his fills and that when he played they just came out the way they came out, and he had a hard time repeating his fills. That means they're basically random and he doesn't know what he's going to do. In my opinion that's not good drumming. I love Ringo and the Beatles but I have to be honest, his drumming is over simplistic and sub par. He doesn't drum that way to create his own style, he does it because that's the best he can do.
I don't set the bar as high as you do - he's far from sub par to me. Not too many have such good musical instincts.

It doesn't matter to me if he couldn't repeat some of his drum fills. Sure, it's goofy but if I enjoy what a musician plays I don't have to admire their skill. Other musicians seem to enjoy playing with him so the variations don't seem to put them off, which is the big thing.

As long as the fills worked every time in their own way then that would just help keep things fresh.

Bear in mind that Ringo often held back. Here's what he sounds like with a bit more latitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-spAA9aLN0.

I don't know about you but I think his drumming is tremendous in that tune - rock solid, fantastic backbeat, fabulous huge sound, cool fills, tight as a fish's behind. Works for me.
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  #107  
Old 05-30-2012, 09:57 AM
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I knew someone would get what I was alluding to.

Not much of what we think of as classic tunes would line up over a metronome for 64 bars...
Not sure if it's a phase or definite digitisation trend. Suspecting the latter with a few retro revivals to slow what is probably an inevitable trend. Digital people, digital music.
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  #108  
Old 05-30-2012, 09:59 AM
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...

I knew someone would get what I was alluding to.

Not much of what we think of as classic tunes would line up over a metronome for 64 bars...

...
True, & in another way relevant to some rumours expressed here. I have spoken at length with engineers who worked Abbey Road in the late 70's. Although they weren't there at the time of the Beatles recordings, they did hear much from their predecessors. Ghost drumming was rife in the 60's through early 80's. Not necessarily directly due to timing/tempo slips, usually more to do with conforming to the desires of the producer. Apart from catastrophic mistakes, a bit of tempo drift was just fine as long as the vibe was right.

In the majority of ghost drumming episodes, the band would be the last ones to know if this had happened. Ghost drummers were asked to sign gagging orders. The band would leave their gear setup for the following day. The engineer would say he was working late to tweak the recording. Once the band had left, the producer would come in with the ghost player, & the track would be "fixed", using the exact setup from the day's session. Some of this I know first hand, because I did some bottom feeder ghosting myself.

Now, I'm not saying that happened with The Beatles, I'm just saying it was commonplace, & it's certainly not the sort of thing that anyone would know about outside of the two or three individuals involved. In the late 70's/early 80's, in my limited experience, ghost drumming activity was pretty much restricted to newly signed "bands" that couldn't play for shit, so the chances that happened with The Beatles, especially at that stage of their career, I think is slim. That said, because the practice was so commonplace, it's not beyond comprehension that the "odd little fix" wasn't applied in that manner. Again, just conjecture on my part, but I think the context is interesting.
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  #109  
Old 05-30-2012, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

QUOTE He doesn't drum that way to create his own style, he does it because that's the best he can do.

Then that would be his style!!
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  #110  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
True, & in another way relevant to some rumours expressed here. I have spoken at length with engineers who worked Abbey Road in the late 70's. Although they weren't there at the time of the Beatles recordings, they did hear much from their predecessors. Ghost drumming was rife in the 60's through early 80's. Not necessarily directly due to timing/tempo slips, usually more to do with conforming to the desires of the producer. Apart from catastrophic mistakes, a bit of tempo drift was just fine as long as the vibe was right.

In the majority of ghost drumming episodes, the band would be the last ones to know if this had happened. Ghost drummers were asked to sign gagging orders. The band would leave their gear setup for the following day. The engineer would say he was working late to tweak the recording. Once the band had left, the producer would come in with the ghost player, & the track would be "fixed", using the exact setup from the day's session. Some of this I know first hand, because I did some bottom feeder ghosting myself.

Now, I'm not saying that happened with The Beatles, I'm just saying it was commonplace, & it's certainly not the sort of thing that anyone would know about outside of the two or three individuals involved. In the late 70's/early 80's, in my limited experience, ghost drumming activity was pretty much restricted to newly signed "bands" that couldn't play for shit, so the chances that happened with The Beatles, especially at that stage of their career, I think is slim. That said, because the practice was so commonplace, it's not beyond comprehension that the "odd little fix" wasn't applied in that manner. Again, just conjecture on my part, but I think the context is interesting.
Good post! I remember reading an article about this in rhythm magazine years ago. I can't remember the name of the 2 drummers but they played on some big recordings. they also got paid next to nothing and got no royalties as they didn't exist after they did their part.
Also it's their word against the world that they actually did the tracks. Pretty harsh really.

One of the drummers actually sat with the drummer he was ghosting for and showed him how to 'look' like he was playing, for a television shoot.
I can't remember the details properly now but I'm sure the ghost actually set up underneath the stage and played the drums live while the band member mimed away.

I wish I could find this article again. Anyone heard this before or have more info on it?

Also, in regards to drum machines and classical music - there is a difference between free-time and out of time.
I think perfect timing sounds great and the really great players who push and pull the tempo do it so well you don't even notice. Just feels like the songs relaxing or tensing up.

But yes, drum machines threw the gauntlet down for us drummers and it takes years more practise to become an 'acceptable' drummer than it did before, because of this.
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  #111  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

sorry but worst question ever. most famous drummer there ever will be, most famous band there ever will be, and top of all of that his parts could be no other for the song. listen to a day in the life and try to play it. he's perfect!
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  #112  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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I saw an interview tonight on Conan O'brien where Ringo said he couldn't double his fills and that when he played they just came out the way they came out, and he had a hard time repeating his fills. That means they're basically random and he doesn't know what he's going to do. In my opinion that's not good drumming. I love Ringo and the Beatles but I have to be honest, his drumming is over simplistic and sub par. He doesn't drum that way to create his own style, he does it because that's the best he can do.
Although we are all entitled to our own opinion, I completely disagree with your logic or definition of "good" drumming. Since when is repeating the same fills over and over ad nauseum defined as "good"? Ever drummer I've ever seen live who repeats the same fills throughout the show I immediately dismiss as amateur. Repeating fills is by no means a good yardstick by which to measure a talented drummer. I think it takes more talent to NOT repeat fills. Also, it's a testament to the Lennon/McCartney songwriting style. it was fresh and different and was not conducive to same old fill after fill.

What is good drummer? Educate us as to whom you think is superior to Ringo, or how we could all be better drummers? I'm curious :)
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  #113  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:48 PM
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...

I knew someone would get what I was alluding to.

Not much of what we think of as classic tunes would line up over a metronome for 64 bars...

...
Not even two metronomes will click exactly together, but I don't think anyone is asking for that. A metronome is a reference. And playing in steady time always sounds better and feels better than time that is shaky. That's just the way it is.

Time has gotten better just as intonation has gotten better since the invention of the guitar tuner. One may argue that music has lost some "feel" but you can't blame that on metronomes -- they've been around for 300 years.
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  #114  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:50 PM
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Although we are all entitled to our own opinion, I completely disagree with your logic or definition of "good" drumming. Since when is repeating the same fills over and over ad nauseum defined as "good"? Ever drummer I've ever seen live who repeats the same fills throughout the show I immediately dismiss as amateur. Repeating fills is by no means a good yardstick by which to measure a talented drummer. I think it takes more talent to NOT repeat fills. Also, it's a testament to the Lennon/McCartney songwriting style. it was fresh and different and was not conducive to same old fill after fill.

What is good drummer? Educate us as to whom you think is superior to Ringo, or how we could all be better drummers? I'm curious :)
Well, McCartney has said that Laborial is like Ringo on steroids! lol. He is -- a similar slushy feel but stronger and with better chops. BUT...it's still in the Ringo mold.
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  #115  
Old 05-30-2012, 06:59 PM
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Who knows? Who cares?

He played in the most inventive and influential band of the 20th century and was inventive and musical.

What do you want him to do, sit down with a top jazz session drummer and trade chops to prove if he is good or not?

In my eyes if you have a gig with a band or are making money as a session drummer you are good at what you do.

As has been said on numerous posts and forums, you can have all the chops in the world and still not be a good musician.
It gives hope to late-starting hacks like me!
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  #116  
Old 05-30-2012, 07:57 PM
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Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Looks like almost everyone is pro Ringo with DMC carrying the anti-Ringo flag. However he would say we're just victims of groupthink. So it goes.
I have never said any such thing and never would. Indeed, I promptly acknowledge Ringo is the most influential drummer to have lived, Naturally, that would endear him to a good many people. In addition to thinking Ringo is the most influential drummer (and has held that post for nearly 50 years), I also happen to think he has mediocre skills and little imagination. All of which can be true at the same time.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:29 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Although we are all entitled to our own opinion, I completely disagree with your logic or definition of "good" drumming. Since when is repeating the same fills over and over ad nauseum defined as "good"? Ever drummer I've ever seen live who repeats the same fills throughout the show I immediately dismiss as amateur. Repeating fills is by no means a good yardstick by which to measure a talented drummer. I think it takes more talent to NOT repeat fills. Also, it's a testament to the Lennon/McCartney songwriting style. it was fresh and different and was not conducive to same old fill after fill.

What is good drummer? Educate us as to whom you think is superior to Ringo, or how we could all be better drummers? I'm curious :)
First of all,I think Ringo's drumming is completely,sincere,honest,and has great musical swing and feel.I've seen him live,and that is something you can't fake from 30 feet away.

I have been to hundreds of concerts in my life and have seem many a great drummer.I have seen Zep around 6 times live and I can tell you,John Bonham,on many an occasion, would NOT play the same fill,the same way,and in the same place.The first time I saw them,it was general admission,and there were no seats.You sat on the floor,and if you wanted to even lean on the stage,at shoulder height,you could.No doubt in my mind,that his parts were different than the studio album.

I myself would change things up on occasion,unless the particular fill was endemic to the music,and changing it would impact the feel of the tune in a negative way.There are times when the music needs to breathe,or you hear the tune differently than you did,when you first played it.THAT to me ,is the mark of a good drummer,not the guy who sits back and plays the same thing over,and over again.

I also agree with the ghost drumming thing,except when it comes to Beatle recordings.In my OPINION only,it's just a pretty difficult thing to cop Ringo's feel,and his particular style when it comes to fills....random,repeatable,or otherwise.

Having said that,and after seeing "The Wrecking Crew",and speaking with Hal Blaine,I can say without fear of contradiction,that in the 60's and 70's.....10 of your favorite drummers were.....Hal Blaine.It didn't matter what band or recording it was.

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  #118  
Old 05-30-2012, 10:49 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

I wonder why we think it is so important to be locked like a metronome on every beat? Who made this rule?

...
Right on Aydee.

Listen to the early Stones stuf,f and Free albums. The music drifts with the emotion prevailing and it sounds and feels perfect. It could be changed by computer to fit with a click but it would not improve the recording.

It is human for the tempo to fluctuate slightly during a song, even top concert orchestras do this.

Its only rock and roll, its not supposed to be perfect, its supposed to feel good.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:16 PM
plangentmusic
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Having attempted to copy some of Ringo's parts I'm struck by the very fact that he played so little, yet it seemed to serve the music so well.

On this, once again, no hi hat in the verse. That takes guts! lol SO many places I was tempted to fill and it just didn't sound right. He got it right. The consummate "side man." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hxcF2h6gNE



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  #120  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:55 PM
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Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
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Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

> I agree with this...and I like it!

Most of the time, We fooled ourselves in seeking for the perfect polished drumming but it ainīt exist...just have fun and good times!

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Its only rock and roll, its not supposed to be perfect, its supposed to feel good.
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