DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #41  
Old 05-29-2012, 05:42 AM
plangentmusic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Sorry to continue the minor derail, but I have to ask. Did you play the other instruments/vocal before playing drums? If so, I'm thinking that a good portion of the general musician skills/ interpretation was already in your makeup, leaving the mechanics as the only challenge. That progression could easily lead you to the conclusion above, & quite understandably. As I've listened to your excellent clips, I'm regarding your observation as carrying a high degree of credibility.

Ringo - he was right for the band, & at the right moment in time. You have to compare his skills to the mean of skills in Liverpool pop at the time. As such, he was right up there, & got the job done. Even today, if you compared his skills to the average in modern pop, he wouldn't be too far off the mark. Drummers tend to concentrate their attention on the most skilled masters of our craft. I get that, but there's no getting away from the fact that the average standard of drumming in successful bands is way behind that of the very best out there.

Or is that really the case? Do we, as drummers, place too much emphasis on the drummers contribution rather than the totality of the performance. If being a great drummer is all about being part of the team that creates a great song, then maybe it's our collective benchmark that's parochial &, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant.
Thanks for saying so. And I agree completely on the RIngo points. (And many other great points by others).

As for singing and playing, I started on drums and starting singing as a means of adding to the band. I'm sure that gave a great foundation but I still thinks it's easier because you don't have to play "changes." (And you can set the tempo where singing the melody flows best. (Nothing worse than trying to sing with a drummer who rushes or drags). And with bass, you're playing rhythmic patterns which are often counter to the melody and that sometimes can be a real challenge. But again, if that's the gig, you do what you gotta do!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-29-2012, 06:42 AM
Ian Williams's Avatar
Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
Rebel
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,184
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Ringo was The Beatles...The Beatles were Ringo!
__________________
Another day, Another challenge...
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-29-2012, 07:50 AM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 6,227
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
Musically he is a great drummer
'Nuff said, all the rest is superficial and irrelevant, isn't it?
__________________
I'm Swissman
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:01 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,278
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

His playing = good

His ability to incite a frenzy on drum forums = bad (......for my sanity).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
'Nuff said, all the rest is superficial and irrelevant, isn't it?
As far as my interest in him is concerned........yep.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:18 AM
Joe Morris's Avatar
Joe Morris Joe Morris is offline
DRUMMERWORLD PRO DRUMMER
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 677
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Yep Ringo was so good they used Jim Keltner in the studio.
__________________
www.joemorris.net
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:23 AM
plangentmusic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Morris View Post
Yep Ringo was so good they used Jim Keltner in the studio.
When?

There are all sorts of rumors. Benard Purdie also claimed to have played on Abby Road, which is hilarious. They got someone else to play exactly like Ringo!?! lol.

This has been addressed by Ringo and Paul. Besides "Love me Do" and a few tracks on the White Album where Paul played drums, it was all Ringo.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-29-2012, 02:53 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,988
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Morris View Post
Yep Ringo was so good they used Jim Keltner in the studio.
I have books filled with photos of Ringo in the studio recording, and videos of the same thing. A low blow Joe. And I will assume you weren't there so it is just rumor from the dark side.

Other than this forum has anyone heard of Joe Morris??
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-29-2012, 05:21 PM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: central Louisiana
Posts: 2,694
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

He is not good or bad. He is epic. He is musical. He continues making great rock and roll. On some of his more recent albums, he displays some chops.

He always plays what is right for the song, and he has fun doing it. Music needs nothing more than that.

Peace, goodwill, and blues.
__________________
Mark Wellman
Mapex Saturn (bass drums, toms, snare), MPX(snare), Tomahawk (snare); Sabian, Evans
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-29-2012, 05:45 PM
Anthony Amodeo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post

Other than this forum has anyone heard of Joe Morris??
whoa
.................
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-29-2012, 05:57 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,988
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Well as a professional, I found his remark to be very rude. Sorry.
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-29-2012, 06:08 PM
larryz's Avatar
larryz larryz is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,879
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post

This has been addressed by Ringo and Paul. Besides "Love me Do" and a few tracks on the White Album where Paul played drums, it was all Ringo.
Agree. I've read over 100+ books on the band and this is basically true, end of story.

If any doubt, I can't think of any Beatles tracks that don't "sound" like Ringo's playing (save for Paul's couple songs he played on), so it doesn't make sense that Purdie, Keltner would be hired to play in the style of Ringo? Unless Ringo was incapacitated.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-29-2012, 06:12 PM
plangentmusic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Keep in mind also, by the late 60's guys like with serious jazz chops were coming along -- Clive Bunker, Bobby Columby, Michael Giles, Danny Serephine, Billy Cobham et al -- and that made what Ringo was doing seemed trite. But in retrospect, it served the music more than the music serving the drums and that's what counts.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:24 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,253
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
If so then you should address my points rather than hoisting your noble self with your noble cause upon Ringo's cross in an act of glib martyrdom lol
HA! Good one. I and others have addressed all your points before, such as the last time someone started a Ringo thread ( would say "praise Ringo thread" but that's redundant. Some people think Ringo is the most influential drummer who ever lived and a kind God who created the most suberb examples of human expression known to humanity. Some, like me, thing he's the most influential drummer who ever lived and just a mediocre musician with forgettable, barely-audible work. All the discussions are archived and searchable and I'm going to fall back on a Ringoesque approach to the conversations about Ringo: minimal effort for maximal notice.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:48 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,037
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
minimal effort for maximal notice.
That's my goal in life so I guess he's one of my heros!! :)
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:06 PM
mikel mikel is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midlands. England.
Posts: 2,266
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Who knows? Who cares?

He played in the most inventive and influential band of the 20th century and was inventive and musical.

What do you want him to do, sit down with a top jazz session drummer and trade chops to prove if he is good or not?

In my eyes if you have a gig with a band or are making money as a session drummer you are good at what you do.

As has been said on numerous posts and forums, you can have all the chops in the world and still not be a good musician.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:14 PM
Anduin's Avatar
Anduin Anduin is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,142
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
He played in the most inventive and influential band of the 20th century
Wow! I didn’t know he was in Kraftwerk!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:31 PM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 6,227
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
The "mediocre" comment is patent rubbish. Paul is a huge talent. John had a magnetic personality and great imagination and daring. George had some truly inspired moments (eg. Something) and Ringo laid down some iconic drum tracks...

Going back to "mediocre skills" ... what we have here is a songwriting and music production unit. Chops are a non issue in this musical situation - there is zero need for overt technical impressiveness. Gratuitous displays of chops in a songwriting environment just get in the way ... in the studio it would be seen as childish. There are no points given for degree of difficulty, only of helping realise the song's potential. Even Steve Gadd plays simply with James Taylor.
I can understand why not everybody will like the Beatles and Ringo, it's purely down to personal tastes, which by all mean, is fine, and kudos for DMC to stand his ground, even considering I'm more on the "he's good" side of opinion, but as Andy pointed out, is the whole picture of the band which does it for me, not so much the individual performance of each members.

What's bothering me in this type of discussion, it seems to imply that you have to have big technical skills and chops, and that "mediocrity" cannot achieve and/or create good music, for me it's total nonsense... you don't need to be the most accomplished muso to say something, music generate feelings, emotions, attitude, dreams, feelgood factors, inspirations and much more... sometimes simple words is the best way to express ourselves, sometimes it's poetry, sometimes it's anger, sometimes it's sadeness, sometimes it's joy, sometimes it's mathematical, sometimes it's complex, sometimes it's difficult, sometimes it' easy, sometimes it's... whatever, we all can express these feels when we play, whatever level or kind of drummer we are, anyone can make "good music".

All of you who know me by now, knows that I love many drummers which are monsters in the technical department, and I enjoy these type of players as much as anybody else, but the Beatles remain one of my favourite band, no matter how mediocre their players are.
__________________
I'm Swissman
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:03 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,988
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Henri you are right, Today, drumming, like everything else is about speed and flash, number of drums, cymbals and your double bass speed.. Chops has done more to ruin music than help it. I played in band and orchestra in high school and the music was music. Every note played by every musician was written in there for a reason. To contribute to the whole. Ringo played to the music and the one comment DMC made thinking it was negative was a positive. Saying his playing was barely audible. Back then every drum cymbal and doo dad was not miced. He played for the band. The idea was to hear the band, not the individual instruments. The word blend will never make it on this forum since it is a drummers forum. You wonder why people don't consider drummers musicians, you have the answer. You wonder why we don't get respect. You now know why. You want drummers that are overly loud, play gospel chops on every song and have no musicality in their bones. this is what makes Ringo a drummer and the rest of us hacks.
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:12 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,764
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

If there ever was a treadmill of a topic....I feel as if I've been down this road, many times before. What was the outcome of all the past Ringo threads? Was there even a resolved outcome? Or were we right back where we started? Were any minds changed?
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:38 PM
8Mile's Avatar
8Mile 8Mile is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 3,895
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
What's bothering me in this type of discussion, it seems to imply that you have to have big technical skills and chops, and that "mediocrity" cannot achieve and/or create good music, for me it's total nonsense... you don't need to be the most accomplished muso to say something, music generate feelings, emotions, attitude, dreams, feelgood factors, inspirations and much more... sometimes simple words is the best way to express ourselves, sometimes it's poetry, sometimes it's anger, sometimes it's sadeness, sometimes it's joy, sometimes it's mathematical, sometimes it's complex, sometimes it's difficult, sometimes it' easy, sometimes it's... whatever, we all can express these feels when we play, whatever level or kind of drummer we are, anyone can make "good music".

All of you who know me by now, knows that I love many drummers which are monsters in the technical department, and I enjoy these type of players as much as anybody else, but the Beatles remain one of my favourite band, no matter how mediocre their players are.
Great post, Henri. Like you, I love drummers who are technical monsters. But I gravitate towards the side of this argument that says you can make great music without it. Because music isn't about any one thing. It reflects and expresses a range of emotions and aspects of the human experience.

There is music that is played by hack musicians but has a visceral appeal that fills a need some people have to hear it. Sure, the musicians who play that kind of music don't have any technical ability, but what they do have is the idea, the attitude and the balls to play it that way.

Precision, smooth execution and dazzling chops are something I will never stop striving for. But there is music that not only doesn't demand any of those things, but would completely lose its point by their presence alone.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:40 PM
Garvin's Avatar
Garvin Garvin is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern USA
Posts: 1,953
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If there ever was a treadmill of a topic....I feel as if I've been down this road, many times before. What was the outcome of all the past Ringo threads? Was there even a resolved outcome? Or were we right back where we started? Were any minds changed?
I always thought one of the main rules of the forum was "Don't bash Ringo"... Just sayin'.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:51 PM
wsabol's Avatar
wsabol wsabol is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,443
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If there ever was a treadmill of a topic....I feel as if I've been down this road, many times before. What was the outcome of all the past Ringo threads?
God (Bernhard) steps in and makes things awkward and the thread gets shut down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Was there even a resolved outcome?
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Or were we right back where we started?
More or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Were any minds changed?
I was very anti-Ringo for the longest time. After these threads and after listening. I've come to appreciate Ringo someone who was in the right place at the right time and did enough to not piss off the The Bealtes' managers and get himself fired. He brought an additional uniqueness to the Beatles' tunes, which is evident. I don't think he was a bad drummer at all. He had everything a good drummer needs. You can't deny that he became the poster child for early rock/pop drumming regardless of the fact that it was solely due to his association with the Beatles. That has to count for something.

But is he one of my personal influences? Absolutely not. There is no spark in his playing that makes want to pick up sticks. I don't feel there is anything I can learn from his playing that I don't already know. I don't listen to The Beatles because of Ringo; I listen because of McCartney's and Lennon's songwriting, and arranging. It has nothing to do with his chops, feel, solos etc. Everyone has their preference, that's mine. I've learned to not criticize drummers just because they don't influence me. If he influences you, its fine--it makes me puzzled--but its fine.
__________________
"Lay the backbeat home."
-Donny Hathaway
YouTube | Instagram | Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:54 PM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 5,512
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
I and others have addressed all your points before, such as the last time someone started a Ringo thread ( would say "praise Ringo thread" but that's redundant.
No, you have not. Zero attention to detail, my lad - just woolly motherhood statements.

Martin, this is why you are losing the argument so tragically. If this debate was a boxing match they would have dragged you off the canvas and into a stretcher last thread ... naturally to the strains of this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r0HTV7WkQk.

:)

Let's just say you've been patched up and given smelling salts ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by You
He has mediocre skills and does not often play with drive or zest and is scarcely audible in most Beatles songs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
One thing I've learned, though, is that more zest and drive is not necessarily better, certainly not in the case of ballads. It really depends on what the song is trying to express. An extreme example would be John's I'm So Tired., which would sound ludicrous with zippy drumming. Horses for courses.

Can you post a link of an example? Every now and then I've listened to a Beatles song and felt the drums could be a tad more peppy but I can't remember which one/s.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Me (re: "barely audible")
Examples? (apart from Got to Get You Into My Life)

I agree with Grunter about blending.

In some songs I like the effect of the drums blending into the band sound. Drums have been creeping up in the mix for some time. Drums got louder in the 70s and then louder again in the 80s, by which time the crack of a snare was replaced by e-drums to get the biggest, fattest, meanest sound possible, almost like small explosions every 2 and 4. Since then drums have remained higher in the mix.

I've also previously made the point that less drums places more emphasis on the melody, especially in ballads. If George Martin made the choice to bring Ringo down in the mix in some songs (examples?), it was probably to place stronger focus on Paul's melodies rather than to bury a bad drum track.

Funny thing. I always find myself defending players like Ringo and Meg, yet they aren't my favourite drummers. I'm more keen on Steely Dan drummers like Purdie, Gadd and Jim Hodder, but I'm glad it was Ringo and not them on Revolver, Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGqkPrT1ZH8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN7AAbtZvV8

:)
__________________
Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:56 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,037
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If there ever was a treadmill of a topic....I feel as if I've been down this road, many times before. What was the outcome of all the past Ringo threads? Was there even a resolved outcome? Or were we right back where we started? Were any minds changed?

The point of discussion isn't to change minds.

The point of debate is to change minds.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:59 PM
8Mile's Avatar
8Mile 8Mile is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 3,895
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Funny thing. I always find myself defending players like Ringo and Meg, yet they aren't my favourite drummers. I'm more keen on Steely Dan drummers like Purdie, Gadd and Jim Hodder, but I'm glad it was Ringo and not them on Revolver, Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road.
This describes me exactly. I rarely listen to the Beatles anymore and have never particularly identified with Ringo Starr, nor tried to emulate him in any way. I'm not enamored of his personality or iconic status. I just don't really give a **** about any of that.

My reason for even getting engaged in these discussions is I think they reveal a certain kind of narrow-mindedness many musicians have about what makes music, or drumming, good. I can't count how many drummers I've come across who think that "groove" or "feel" in drumming means leaving out fills. The subtleties, the nuance, the big ears and finesse required to provide the music with good feel from behind the drum throne are really underappreciated.
Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:59 PM
larryace
This message has been deleted by larryace.
  #66  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:05 AM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,764
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
The point of discussion isn't to change minds.

The point of debate is to change minds.
Fair 'nuff.

Is this a discussion or a debate? I'm going with debate, because the thread title is so polarizing.
A discussion topic would be "Ringo, do you like his work?"
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:06 AM
wsabol's Avatar
wsabol wsabol is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,443
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
The point of discussion isn't to change minds.

The point of debate is to change minds.
The point of a debate is to win.

__________________
"Lay the backbeat home."
-Donny Hathaway
YouTube | Instagram | Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:13 AM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,988
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
The point of discussion isn't to change minds.

The point of debate is to change minds.

dis·cus·sion   [dih-skuhsh-uhn] Show IPA
noun
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate.

de·bate   [dih-beyt] Show IPA noun, verb, de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing.
noun
1.
a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.

I think these terms are almost synonymous
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:17 AM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 6,227
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
The point of debate is to change minds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsabol View Post
The point of a debate is to win.
The point of a debate is to discuss opposing opinions.

If there's a winner... then someone's changed their mind.
__________________
I'm Swissman
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:23 AM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,764
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

It is subtle, but the two words are not synonymous. Discussion goals are examinations possibly leading to solutions, debate goals are to prevail, or win, or to change minds. Debates need opposing viewpoints, discussions, not necessarily.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:54 AM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,253
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
No, you have not. Zero attention to detail, my lad - just woolly motherhood statements.

Martin, this is why you are losing the argument so tragically. If this debate was a boxing match they would have dragged you off the canvas and into a stretcher last thread ... naturally to the strains of this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r0HTV7WkQk.
Hmmmm, I wasn't aware this was a competition with winners and losers. I acknowledge you see it that way. Given that my opinon is such a minority view, it is unlikely I will ever be a "winner" and such things matter little to something with an iconoclastic streak. As I mentioned before, I and others have listed this out, but the entire topic compels me to devote as little focus, passion and chops as possible to it. Kind of like Ringo's drumming!

But thanks for giving me another opportunity to state my opinion: Ringo displayed the skills of a mediocre drummer, which of course makes him no less influential, just highly overrated. Ringo Starr was the Ringo Starr of the Beatles.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:58 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 5,512
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Hmmmm, I wasn't aware this was a competition with winners and losers. I acknowledge you see it that way.
LOL - I almost laughed out my breakfast cereal!

C'mon Mr Slippery, just provide the examples. It's very simple.
__________________
Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 05-30-2012, 01:02 AM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,253
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
LOL - I almost laughed out my breakfast cereal!

C'mon Mr Slippery, just provide the examples. It's very simple.
Simple, but tedious. Polyanna would understand.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:13 AM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,988
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

I thought I would post a few pictures of The BeaTles with Jim Keltner in the studio. NOT. Amazing they went to the trouble of taking all of these photos right before Keltner arrived. LOL
Attached Images
      
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:57 AM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,037
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I think these terms are almost synonymous
A debate involves at least two sides with opposing positions.

A debate is a form of discussion but a discussion will only become a debate when the participants disagree and for some reason decide they must prove thier point or win over the other participant(s)

You and I could be debating wether the terms are synonymous but, since you qualified it with "almost" I have no case..... unless I challange you measure of almost :)

I'm sure this issue has been done to death but it is interesting, although as predictable as it was 45 years ago, to me. And, as it's always been, good/bad music/players is subjective. I hear stuff on the radio that makes me want to put a screwdriver thru my ear but somebody, somewhere is digging it.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:08 AM
Milt Hathaway's Avatar
Milt Hathaway Milt Hathaway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 144
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Oh no, that's next door. It's being-hit-on-the-head lessons in here.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:35 AM
Chunky's Avatar
Chunky Chunky is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 851
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

I agree with MAD and others on here. When it came down to the song he got it right and that's what counts.

I take it your a hardcore Beatle fan Gruntersdad?

I see waht you were saying and your right, but only from one side. it's great to blend in but, not all music calls for it so you can't right off all drummers as none-musicians because of not always blending. Nearly all instruments will jump in and out or take the lead in different styles. there's nothing wrong with that and contrary to popular belief it's not a crime for the drums to take lead once in a while. It'a all sound and together it makes music, why do so many drummers think they are the foundation and nothing more?
Isn't that narrowing your musical potential?

But I agree, it sounds awesome for alot thibgs and Ringo is great.

I don't want to anger you further and I don't believe this is the case but, when it comes to PR and stuff YES they would shoot pics of him in the studio then get someone else in. The entertainment business is full of BS and lies and seens as The Beatles taught Michael Jackson a few tricks on PR I think they'd be savvy enough to do this.

However, even though I'm not a huge Beatles fan, it sounds like him to me and didn't he play his parts just fine live too? Why would they need a replacement?
__________________
I like my drum sound fat and simple. Just like me.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:44 AM
Anthony Amodeo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I agree with MAD and others on here. When it came down to the song he got it right and that's what counts.

I take it your a hardcore Beatle fan Gruntersdad?

I see waht you were saying and your right, but only from one side. it's great to blend in but, not all music calls for it so you can't right off all drummers as none-musicians because of not always blending. Nearly all instruments will jump in and out or take the lead in different styles. there's nothing wrong with that and contrary to popular belief it's not a crime for the drums to take lead once in a while. It'a all sound and together it makes music, why do so many drummers think they are the foundation and nothing more?
Isn't that narrowing your musical potential?

But I agree, it sounds awesome for alot thibgs and Ringo is great.

I don't want to anger you further and I don't believe this is the case but, when it comes to PR and stuff YES they would shoot pics of him in the studio then get someone else in. The entertainment business is full of BS and lies and seens as The Beatles taught Michael Jackson a few tricks on PR I think they'd be savvy enough to do this.

However, even though I'm not a huge Beatles fan, it sounds like him to me and didn't he play his parts just fine live too? Why would they need a replacement?
the Beatles rarely played live if at all from '66 on .......and when they did Ringo played great

the Apple rooftop is a good example

and yeah thats Ringo on all the records for sure
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:52 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 5,512
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Simple, but tedious. Polyanna would understand.
You assume too much, glasshopper. I know Pollyanna quite well and I think she'd be feeling exactly the same as I do - ripped off.

This is a con job, Martin ... I work my butt off to provide reasoned debate and you shook it off like a bad case of fleas, without addressing any of the areas mentioned. None of it has affected a thing so it seems you're smarter than me.

Just as Ringo was smarter than most drummers, playing fewer notes per dollar than just about anyone :P
__________________
Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:55 AM
Chunky's Avatar
Chunky Chunky is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 851
Default Re: Ringo Starr... Good or bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
the Beatles rarely played live if at all from '66 on .......and when they did Ringo played great

the Apple rooftop is a good example

and yeah thats Ringo on all the records for sure
I thought so.

Didn't know they didn't play live much though. Why not? The hysteria?
__________________
I like my drum sound fat and simple. Just like me.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com