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  #1  
Old 02-28-2006, 01:11 PM
Stu_Strib
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Default THE "BIG" JAZZ THREAD

I've been reading a lot of history of Jazz lately, and it is depressing how many of the greats are gone now. Which led me to think, who are the contemporary jazz legends in the making that still have that 50s (and earlier) bop/hard bop inluence? Not just drummers, but musicians in the vein of "band leader" of the old days.

I ask, because I really enjoy the high fidelity of modern recordings of jazz standards. Right now I am really into Wynton Marsallis, as his sound is modern, yet his music is true to the history of jazz.

Any other suggestions?

Stu
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2006, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Hi Stu,

Our local college station plays all jazz. There seem to be quite a few groups still playing in the traditional jazz style but the names have gone right over my head. I will start paying more attention and posting them. As I said in another post (and I think someone got mad at me for saying it) jazz today is not what most of us think of as jazz. Groups today are either funk or easy listening. Sure, I like Pat Metheny and Spyra Gyra but they are nothing like Parker/Gillespie/Coltrane/Monk/etc. Besides, the drumming style is worlds apart.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2006, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Anything Chris Potter plays on. His new album Underground (I just saw the tour with Nate Smith on drums... SICK!!!) old albums, Lift (with Bill Stewart), Gratitude (Brian Blade)... Or the Dave Holland quintet albums he plays on like Extended Play live at Birdland (Billy Kilson)... I love Chris Potter.
Keith Jarrett's my all time favorite- anything by Keith Jarrett. My goal is to collect and listen to everything that he has ever put out... I have about 60 albums so far... 20 or so to go. I recommend any of the Trio albums to start. Standards vol 1 and 2 are great, Tokyo '96, Up For It, the Out Of Towners... great places to start... For his solo piano recordings, Koln Concert is great. He's also got a new one out that I'm going to pick up today that is quite good (I listened to it at my friend's house a couple weeks ago.) Everything Keith does is so fantasic and artistically pure, you can't help but love it. Plus, Jack DeJohnette sounds like an alien on those Trio recordings... Gary Peacock is a wonderful bassplayer as well. Check out his older American and European group recordings as well. Some of it (particularly the American stuff with Paul Motian and Charlie Haden) is a little out but very very enjoyable.
As for something a little more groove oriented, try Joshua Redman's newer stuff. Like Elastic or Momentum, his latest. Momentum's got Questlove, Brian Blade and Jeff Ballard (one of my new favorites) beating the skins. Also, Flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers on bass for a few tunes... he sounds fantastic in this context. He's a better bass player than I gave him credit for.
I also love some of the new-ish Roy Haynes led albums. Love Letters is awesome- it has a complete all star band on it. He released one with John Pattituci and Danilo Perez which is one of my favorite trio albums. Birds of a Feather, his Charlie Parker tribute is very interesting... Kenny Garrett on alto, Roy Hargrove on trumpet, Dave Holland on bass... Dave Kikoski (?) on piano. Very very cool stuff.
Newish Wayne Shorter's good- his newest release "Breaking the Sound Barrier" and Alegria before that both have Brian Blade, John Pattituci and Danilo Perez. I saw the group live and they smoked!
For something new, check out Ari Hoenig's last two releases... they are very creative and have a new cool concept behind the drumming.
Hope that helps you out.
edit: oops Stu I just saw "Hard Bop influenced". Okay, so maybe check out the Jazz Messangers recordings from the early 80's with Wynton... Or the VSOP recordings with Wynton and Branford.. The Roy Haynes stuff definetly has a little bit of nostalgia to it. Particularly the Charlie Parker tribute. Pick that one up, you'll love it.
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2006, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Stu,

I'm no jazz expert, but I can add a little advice:

Jazz is a really great music to check out on a local level in most major cities (I've never been to the UK, but I'm guessing some other members here could point you in the right direction.) A lot of those artists will have their own cds to sell too. On a local level, there are a lot of contemporary artists still playing hard-bop and doing a really great job of it in most cities. -though, I have no idea if you're in the middle of no-where, so this may be no help!

Also, I know you're looking for more traditional, but I think Duke pretty much covered that! As far as recorded stuff goes, There's a lot of great new jazz too that's not strictly bop, but it's not all elevator either. Check out MEdeski Martin and Wood -their first few cds sound more traditional, but I love their more recent stuff too. Also, have a listen to the Bad Plus, Charlie Hunter, and brad mehldau

Also, yeah, sadly a lot of the greats have passed. But a lot are still around. Horace Silver put out a great album in '99 called "jazz has a sense of humor" Sonny Rollins still tours, as does Brubeck, and Arthur Taylor put out a *great* live album as recently as the mid-ninties called something like: wailin' at the vanguard.

And, although this is traditional, it isn't bop ...but since it's Fat Tuesday, I had to mention the Preservation Hall jazz band. Saw one incarnation of them about two summers ago in Jersey and they were GREAT! Go here:
http://www.preservationhall.com/2.0/

I highly reccomend the disc 'shake that thing' (click on "the label" to have a look.)
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2006, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

http://www.birdlandjazz.com

Hey jazz lovers, here is a great place to read about who the jazz greats are and some of their gigs in N.Y. Also, many great jazz artists came from and are evoving out of Chicago, IL.
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2006, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

a great jazz band is the lionel lyles quintet out of maryland, they could be playing the newport jazz festival, up in RI, and they are reat to listen too, look them up on the internet, they have some great songs
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2006, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

As a bandleader and a great, great drummer, I really like Thelonius Monk Junior. His "Changing of the Guard" album kicks. The tribute album to his old man, "Monk on Monk" is a good one, too.

Auger mentioned Brad Mehldau - I think his trio is among the best around and I feel he's destined for historical significance as a pianist. All of the "Art of the Trio" series are excellent and there are many other albums (some "harder" than others).

And McCoy Tyner's Trio has released some killer stuff in the last few years (one of the older "legends" but his recent stuff is thouroughly of
the moment).

And don't forget The great sax man, David Murray. Incredible body of work.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2006, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Thanks guys for all the comments...some of them I already beat you to it; Mehldau, Charlie Hunter, Medeski Martin and Wood,

I'm definitely gonna check out Ari Hoenig, as his name comes up a lot in drumming circles.

Thanks, and keep the ideas coming in.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2006, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

This may be slightly off topic but as Stu Strib mentioned Ari Hoenig it made me think.

I am a new drummer and I am working hard, with the help of my teacher, to develop the Moeller technique. I saw the video of Ari Hoenig and was surprised at how incredibly stiffly he holds his wrists and the sticks. It seems to be completely at odds with what I am being taught about movement of the wrist/hand like bouncing a ball. I am sure he's a great drummer but would love to know why he plays like he does
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2006, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Good question. I haven't seen him, so I can't say. Maybe I'll go surf over to the drummerworld drummers section.


Ok, back. Hey Bernhard, you link to both videos on Ari Hoenig sites go to the same video so check the link!

Yeah, I see what you mean! He holds his sticks extremely weird. But hey, it sounded flawless, so there you go!
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  #11  
Old 03-03-2006, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Jazz is wonderful.....

"new" jazz is in so much styles....its crazy....

a brilliant Jazz/Bebop band around nowadays are the fantastic "Seatbelts"(with Yoko Kanno)...located in Japan...they do teh whole soundtrack to a japanese animation called "Cowboy Bebop"...i hate all anime except this one...just because of its brilliant soundtrack!!

you shud check them out!
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2006, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Yeah, try and play like Ari, but don't play like Ari....
Make sense?
Don't get me wrong, I think his drumming is awesome, he's a good writer too, but his technique is a little weird.
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2006, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

I am a huge fan of anything Jim Black plays on. He plays some great stuff with AlasNoAxis. Just listen with an open mind. Dave Douglas would be another guy to check out.
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2006, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamndrummer
http://www.birdlandjazz.com

Hey jazz lovers, here is a great place to read about who the jazz greats are and some of their gigs in N.Y. Also, many great jazz artists came from and are evoving out of Chicago, IL.
One of the baddest drummers on the planet today is based in Chicago- Hamid Drake. He's probably a little 'out' for many of you though. Ken Vandermark is a killer reed player and great bandleader from Chicago as well. Same with the 'out' though.

I'm not sure I understand, Stu, with the 50's-60's influence? Some of these posts seem confusing the way I'm interpreting it.
G
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2006, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

ya, i'm seeing a somewhat contradictory cross-over too.

it seems a lot of newer artists are doing 'retro' explorations of bop, but they also are doing a lot of reworking of soul and rock music [lots of people covering the music of santana, etc]. i guess they're doing a little of everything. then there's the smoothy stuff, but ehh...er...eeeeeeee... i'm not really into that.

javon jackson, joe lovano, don faddis, eric alexander, nicholas payton and certainly wynton are pumping out the hardbop, so that might be a starting point. also geri allen, kenny garrett and terrence blanchard. i don't really know of drummers per se that are focusing on the genre.
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  #16  
Old 03-03-2006, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu_Strib
I've been reading a lot of history of Jazz lately, and it is depressing how many of the greats are gone now. Which led me to think, who are the contemporary jazz legends in the making that still have that 50s (and earlier) bop/hard bop inluence? Not just drummers, but musicians in the vein of "band leader" of the old days.

I ask, because I really enjoy the high fidelity of modern recordings of jazz standards. Right now I am really into Wynton Marsallis, as his sound is modern, yet his music is true to the history of jazz.

Any other suggestions?

Stu

YES monty alexander.... hes an awesome keys player, his trio..... they just....rock or JAZZ
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2006, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoggrocks
i don't really know of drummers per se that are focusing on the genre.
There are plenty of drummers today who've made entire careers on the hard bop genre, but of course, hard bop isn't modern.

What I meant by confusion is that how can people like Dave Douglas (of whom I'm a huge fan), Jim Black (ditto) and Chris Potter (who always plays better on other people's albums, IMO) be mentioned if we're talking about modern guys playing the standard repertoire, i.e. 'standards' or 'Hard Bop influenced.. DD ain't playing standards, that's for sure. Is that what you mean, Stu?
G
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2006, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzgregg
Ken Vandermark is a killer reed player and great bandleader from Chicago as well.
Oh,yeah! Loved the stuff he did with his band "The Vandermark 5". Makes it to Atlanta every once and a while.
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

I would like to put in a good word for my father Tom Smith's own music. He has always been a tradition in transition jazz guy, but alot of his music with eastern european musicians has been kind of out there. His website is pretty great, with his bands backed by alot of amazing drummers that include Louie Bellson and my mentor Romanian drummer Vlad Popescu. The website is thsmith.com. I have learned alot listening to the live concerts audio section.

Alot of you guys mention Chris Potter. He is originally from the Carolinas where we are all from. In fact on my mom and dad's first date, dad took her to a gig he was playing with Potter when he was still only 15 years old. My parents say that Potter wiped everybody out back then too even at his age. Mom remembered that dad took out a white hankerchief and waved it at Potter as a sign of surrender when Potter went into about his tenth minute of Rhythm changes. Dad kind of took mom on that date to see if she could handle the musician's life. She did and they were an exclusive after that gig.
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Old 03-04-2006, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzgregg
One of the baddest drummers on the planet today is based in Chicago- Hamid Drake. He's probably a little 'out' for many of you though. Ken Vandermark is a killer reed player and great bandleader from Chicago as well. Same with the 'out' though.

I'm not sure I understand, Stu, with the 50's-60's influence? Some of these posts seem confusing the way I'm interpreting it.
G
Oh man, I just got a double album with hamid drake and fred anderson, it is my favorite album of the year thus far, it is killin!

Matt- Good to see you in here, I've seen you play on videos. You sound great man.
A bass player I play with played with Chris Potter when he was 14 in Red Rodney's band. He says he was smoking back then too.
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  #21  
Old 03-04-2006, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke86
Matt- Good to see you in here, I've seen you play on videos. You sound great man.
A bass player I play with played with Chris Potter when he was 14 in Red Rodney's band. He says he was smoking back then too.
Thanks Duke. I like how you express yourself on posts about all the different subjects. I can tell you are probably a great player yourself. Yeah, its kind of wierd about Chris. Had my parents not gotten along on that gig, I wouldn't be here LOL. Dad says Potter has a photographic memory where he takes Real Books and just flips the pages until its all in his head. What a gift that would be.

Thanks about the videos remarks, but I'm kind of embarrassed by those now. I have some much better stuff out soon, thank goodness. Actually I just got back from a Andy Narrell concert. They had this unknown drummer from Martinique who was incredible with great taste and chops, like everything together. Just goes to prove that great guys are everywhere, and not just the famous ones.
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2006, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzgregg
There are plenty of drummers today who've made entire careers on the hard bop genre, but of course, hard bop isn't modern.

What I meant by confusion is that how can people like Dave Douglas (of whom I'm a huge fan), Jim Black (ditto) and Chris Potter (who always plays better on other people's albums, IMO) be mentioned if we're talking about modern guys playing the standard repertoire, i.e. 'standards' or 'Hard Bop influenced.. DD ain't playing standards, that's for sure. Is that what you mean, Stu?
G

Well, the majority of the albums I have seem to be from the Blue Note label, during the 50s and 60s. I see it is mostly called hard bop. The artists I really like are Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Cannonball Adderly, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Horace Silver, Lee Morgan etc.

I'm just looking for guys that play those standards/style but in modern recordings. I really like the Wynton Marsallis stuff and a Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra recording of Love Supreme.

thanks
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2006, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu_Strib
I really like the Wynton Marsallis stuff and a Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra recording of Love Supreme.
With all do respect, I can never 'speak' to you again.
Except to say, why not just buy some more recordings of those guys? Sound Quality? Buy Japanese Imports, the remastering is terrifyingly clear. Any modern recordings you hear with people playing like that are just rehashing old ideas anyway, why bother?

And my suspicions were right, most of these replies certainly weren't what you're looking for with regards to the 'Hard Bop' part.
G
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  #24  
Old 03-04-2006, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith
Thanks Duke. I like how you express yourself on posts about all the different subjects. I can tell you are probably a great player yourself. Yeah, its kind of wierd about Chris. Had my parents not gotten along on that gig, I wouldn't be here LOL. Dad says Potter has a photographic memory where he takes Real Books and just flips the pages until its all in his head. What a gift that would be.

Thanks about the videos remarks, but I'm kind of embarrassed by those now. I have some much better stuff out soon, thank goodness. Actually I just got back from a Andy Narrell concert. They had this unknown drummer from Martinique who was incredible with great taste and chops, like everything together. Just goes to prove that great guys are everywhere, and not just the famous ones.
Haha thanks man. I'm not a touch on you though- I hit 925 on a drumometer a couple weeks ago and I nearly had a cow. Plus, I'm 19. I need to develop quicker. hehe.
I look forward to hearing your new stuff, I'm sure it's fantastic. Be sure to let Drummerworld get a sample or two when it's up! We like to hear some great young jazz players. Yeah, there's a ton of great unknown players that we don't know about... I wish I lived in a place where I could hear more of them!!

Stu- I heard Wynton and the LCJO do Love Supreme live, it's not half as good as the way Branford does it. With half the pretention too! Also, the Marsalis Standard Time recording is great too- some interesting rhythmic ideas on that one.... There's a great trumpet player in Toronto named Chase Sanborn who plays in the Clifford Brown type style.... Awesome stuff. You'd have problems finding his stuff in the UK though.
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Old 03-04-2006, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzgregg
Any modern recordings you hear with people playing like that are just rehashing old ideas anyway, why bother?
G

Well because I love the tunes, but hate the mono microphone live recordings and low fidelity of most of them. Newer stuff "just to be new" to me isn't very interesting. Why mess with a good thing, comes to mind?

Thanks though everyone for the comments.
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  #26  
Old 03-05-2006, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu_Strib
Well because I love the tunes, but hate the mono microphone live recordings and low fidelity of most of them. Newer stuff "just to be new" to me isn't very interesting. Why mess with a good thing, comes to mind?

Thanks though everyone for the comments.
Stu, try any of the Blue Note RVG remasters or as I said, the Japanese import 24 bit masters of the Blue Note recordings. These sound better than most CD's released today, IMO because of the warmth and depth that is unavailable from digital recording. In the late 50's, Rudy Van Gelder (RVG) was mixing and recording for the most part in stereo. All of the cats you mention earlier (with the exception of Cannonball who only recorded a single album, 'Somethin Else' for them, iirc): Blakey, Dex, Horace, Lee Morgan, etc- are basically staples of the Blue Note catalog and the entire 'Hard Bop' movement'.

G
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Old 03-05-2006, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Well, it's not hard bop, but for a tradition-oriented group with modern recording quality, you could check out Ray Brown's stuff. The Telarc live/in studio recordings sound great. Benny Green on piano and Jeff Hamilton. Of cousre, it's not going to have that gritty hard bop "play till your fingers fall off" energy, but it's really good.

I think though that there is a definite forward motion to jazz stylistically. Most newer groups/artists are doing their own thing, and playing hard bop the way Blakey and Cannonball played it would be like playing with someone else's style. Joshua Redman, Cyris Chesnut, Christian Mcbride, Brad Mehldau- you can hear be bop and hard bop infuences in their playing but they're not going to get together and play "Blues March" just for old times sake. Not that that would be a bad thing, it just isn't the direction the music is growing in.

Sorry if I misspelled any names.

PS My favorite piano player of the hard bop era: Bobby Timmons! He swings hard!
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke86
Yeah, there's a ton of great unknown players that we don't know about... I wish I lived in a place where I could hear more of them!!
Duke, I would strongly suggest you get down to one of the yearly IAJE Conventions. Its like PASIC, except all jazz and has the same vibe. There are something like 400 different things going on, and every single jazz guy of note is there, so all the concerts are hot because the guys in the audience are also all the top guys, and students like us, who can sometimes be a meaner audience lol.

It costs students about $135 American. But its the best bargain going. You can actually see just about everybody in one four day period. It's always in January and about seven to eight thousand people go. My family goes every year. Next year it's back in New York, right on 52 street and will shift to Toronto in 2008. Hotels are discounted, so its not as expensive as you think. It's one of those deals where you save up a little at a time until you have enough. You can even get college credit.

All the top drummers go and perform and do the clinics, DeJohnette, Haynes, Hamilton, Stewart, and lots of others.
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Old 03-05-2006, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

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Originally Posted by Drad-dog
W Of cousre, it's not going to have that gritty hard bop "play till your fingers fall off" energy, but it's really good.

I was under the impression that "bop" is the super up-tempo tunes "play till your fingers fall off music" and that "hard bop" was more medium tempo groove oriented stuff. I read that "hard bop" is like slower bop with gospel and blues influences (thus the groove), yet still has the hard swing feel of bop, just slower tempos.

I'm not sure how old this is but I bought Scott Hamilton "Tenor Shoes" with Jeff Hamilton and it definitely fits the "hard bop" bill.
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  #30  
Old 03-05-2006, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

I dunno about you guys, but apparently Joey Jordinson and Tre Cool can play jazz so they must be the new great jazz legend....... i now hate myself for saying that. But yea i was listening to a miles davis album called "Sketches of Spain" and the drummin was very cool. I'l check the drummer's name.
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  #31  
Old 03-15-2006, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Marcus Baylor of The Yellowjackets is excellent. Check out the clips on this site and the album Time Squared.
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Old 03-16-2006, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

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Originally Posted by rendezvous_drummer
I dunno about you guys, but apparently Joey Jordinson and Tre Cool can play jazz so they must be the new great jazz legend.......
Don't believe everything you read on Drummerworld ;-)
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  #33  
Old 03-16-2006, 05:38 PM
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Guillermo Guillermo is offline
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Well I am so glad to find another die hard Keith Jarrett fan... this man is a giant in music in every sense of the word... an absolute titan in every aspect... creative, charisma, inspiration, technical, work... you name it...

As far as the topic for jazz drumming, I think there are two main avenues with NEW vitality going on today...

On one side drummers strongly centered in tradition that have produced what I call a "New Bop sound" an evolution started with Jack DeJohnette after Tony Williams... and continued by new talent, these are guys like Joey Baron, Bill Stewart, Matt Wilson, Susie Ibarra, Brian Blade, Lewis Nash, etc.

And another in wich experimenting with electronics and textures, and being influenced by styles others than rock, such as slick neo-jazz producer made electronic music like Bugge Wesseltoft, Lars Petter Molvaer, Kruder & Dorfmeister and Amon Tobin... these are guys like Bobby Previtte, Adam Deitch and Billy Martin to name a few.

I think this is where jazz is standing drumwise now.
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Old 03-16-2006, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Guillermo,
How in the world do you mention Lewis Nash in the same sentence as Susie Ibarra? There aren't 2 more opposite drummers.


Seriously.
G
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  #35  
Old 03-16-2006, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Well I am not saying this group of people are similar ins style... I should have been more clear...

This cluster of drummers are those that in my opinion come from an evolution of jazz drumming from before... Brian Blade and Bill Stewart are also as different as can be...

In the case you mention in particular, I think someone like Lewis Nash is much more influenced by guys like Roy haines and Ed Blackwell... while Susie is much more influenced by free jazz... in any case those are evolutions from previous jazz work.

The other cluster of guys mentioned anre those fusing styles rather than evolving in the more traditional jazz drumming... regardless of style.

Jazz has many different styles... we tend to think or associate difference is style more as a thing for other kinds of music... but jazz musicians are as varied and colorful in their differences as anything else... take for example, if you compare someone like Joe Henderson to Sun Ra, even in the same instrument and genre, can't be more different.
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  #36  
Old 03-16-2006, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Guillermo,
I wasn't talking about style, either. I was talking about how Susie is a boundry breaking, innovative and imaginitive, creative improvisor and Lewis Nash is a Max Roach clone, more or less.

We are all drummers based on drummers who came from before, people like Susie take it somehwere, people like Nash don't.

What Nash does could hardly be called 'New., as in this thread.
G
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  #37  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Oh I see what you mean... Nash is sort of a purist.

Yes...

Even if rooted on tradition and without that "inventiveness"... in my opinion his drumming is a very modern take on classic 50's bop drumming, with a traditional sound... sort of like John Riley, Smitty or even Jeff Watts too... yes, he may not be as "out there".

I do think however much of his 90's work with Tommy Flanagan was very fresh... unlike his stints with guys like Brandford Marsalis that to me would be the best example on his take in acoustic jazz drumming...

I think a new point has come out though...

And it is that the inventiveness and spark comes now at a much smaller pace... I mean we see that basicly in jazz most guys at the forefront creatively are sort of old... like say Paul Motian... his trio work is very interesting musically... Peter Erskine's trio is another example... the younger guys playing acoustic jazz now seem to be less risktakers and more reserved than what young guys were 30 years ago.

But that is the INVENTIVE aspect of it... I think guys like Nash shed new lights in their playing in much more subtle ways than say the way Susie does, wich is amazing... if Susie were a piano player she would be Cecil Taylor... Nash would be John Lewis.
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Old 03-16-2006, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Lars Ulrich! Yeah!

Seriously, I think Chris Potter is really good. This guy's grooves are crazy.

- Marc
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Old 03-17-2006, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guillermo
Even if rooted on tradition and without that "inventiveness"... in my opinion his drumming is a very modern take on classic 50's bop drumming, with a traditional sound... sort of like John Riley, Smitty or even Jeff Watts too... yes, he may not be as "out there".
IMO, Nash isn't a modern anything, he's an old take on an old idea (albeit a good idea). At least Watts has done a few more modern things and has more modern concepts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guillermo
And it is that the inventiveness and spark comes now at a much smaller pace... I mean we see that basicly in jazz most guys at the forefront creatively are sort of old... like say Paul Motian... his trio work is very interesting musically... Peter Erskine's trio is another example... the younger guys playing acoustic jazz now seem to be less risktakers and more reserved than what young guys were 30 years ago.
I kind of agree, but mostly not. On the one hand, yeah, no one has done as much to Jazz drumming since Motian,et. al (assuming we aren't counting DeJohnette) And don't you young whippersnappers start saying 'oh, but Billy Kilson', or whoever.
1. We are talking Jazz (Weckl is out)
2.Bill Stewart comes CLOSE, but only close.

As for Erskine- Peter's a great player (as is Nash) but they just aren't on the artistic level of a Joey Baron in that they are NOT taking risks- not with their playing OR their actual product output.

Why I kind of disagree is that there are younger people like: Susie, Hamid Drake, Paal Nilssen-Love, Joey Baron, Bobby Previte (who I don't like, but is totally a risk taker), Tom Rainey, Christope Marguet, Eric Echampard, Gerry Hemmingway and a bunch I can't remember right now. So they're out there, you just have to know where to look. Risk taking is not at all present in mainstream Jazz and hasn't been for quite some time. (Although it took a lot of balls for Brantford to do 'A Love Supreme' and though on principal I refuse to hear it, I hear it's very good. THAT is a risk). You just don't find the kind of adventureous attitude in Scofield, Adam Rogers, Mark Turner and so on. I'm not commenting on the music, just calling it like it is. Do any of you wishing to obect think that Mark Turner DOESN'T know what will happen in his composition and/or improvisation next?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guillermo
But that is the INVENTIVE aspect of it... I think guys like Nash shed new lights in their playing in much more subtle ways than say the way Susie does, wich is amazing... if Susie were a piano player she would be Cecil Taylor... Nash would be John Lewis.
Again, Guillermo, I can't totally agree. Nash as Lewis, yeah. More subtle the Susie? No, easier to understand and follow? Yeah. Have you heard Susie's 'Folklorico' where she's playing Kulintang (Gongs)? How about her duo recording with Mark Dresser 'Tone Time'? Any of Her trio stuff with her own trio like 'Flower After Flower' or 'Radience'? Her stuff with William Parker's 'In Order to Survive'? If you JUST listen to Susie with someone like David S. Ware or Zorn, you might get the impression she can't or isn't subtle, but if you look further, she's far more nuanced than that. Maybe I'm being too picky, since I know what you're getting at, but Susie is one of the most sensitive, multi faceted musicians I'm aware of and more people should know about her. That goes for everyone I mentioned above (Hamid, Paal Nilssen-Love, etc.)

My 2 cents,
Gregg
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  #40  
Old 03-17-2006, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: "New" Legends of Jazz?

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Originally Posted by Stu_Strib
Don't believe everything you read on Drummerworld ;-)
Hahaha oh i know that. i got a question..... could stanton moore be considered a jazz drummer?
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