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  #1  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:45 AM
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Default Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

A few months back I was cruising Ebay pricing a floor tom add on for my kit when I came across this Mapex ad for Drummer Superstore.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mapex-Meridi...item2568f50108



That's my kit. That's my pic that I posted here on DrummerWorld the day I brought them home. I didn't even have cymbals yet.


Here it is.






I don't really know how I feel about this. It's not really hurting anything. They're not trying to fraudulently sell my kit, but it is my pic they are using to sell their kits. And not a very good pic either.

I'm curious how would you deal with situation if it were your kit pics in someone elses ebay ad?
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I agree, that's pretty weirdo if you ask me. OTOH, I like that pic!
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I know, right? Weird thing is that the other stock photos further down the ad are better pictures for a new kit ad, in my opinion.

Why would you be selling a new in the box kit using a stolen pic taken in someones basement.

Should I send them some better ones?
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by THC View Post
Why would you be selling a new in the box kit using a stolen pic taken in someones basement.
So they don't have to take them out of the box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by THC View Post
Should I send them some better ones?
You should - that would be hilarious!
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

You should tell Ebay really. If you look on your Ebay page there are links to a report form.

The reason why using your picture is wrong is because it is not of the item that is for sale. Ebay do not mind if people use stock advertising pictures to illustrate a product but if the picture purports to show the item for sale when in fact it is a different item, that is fraud.
It gives you an idea of the morals of the person concerned that they have also stolen your picture!
Report it.
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:14 AM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I agree, they may not have a pic because the drums haven't been un boxed. We all know that real world pics are better than website pics, but they should have at least asked you (maybe)... Who "owns" pics uploaded to drummerworld? Do they become public domain?

At any rate, drummer superstore is a great place to deal with and both Brad and Jeremy are very helpful in the drum department.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:17 AM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thud View Post
You should tell Ebay really. If you look on your Ebay page there are links to a report form.

The reason why using your picture is wrong is because it is not of the item that is for sale. Ebay do not mind if people use stock advertising pictures to illustrate a product but if the picture purports to show the item for sale when in fact it is a different item, that is fraud.
It gives you an idea of the morals of the person concerned that they have also stolen your picture!
Report it.
I say contact drummer superstore before running to tell mommy. I would rather see the drum finish in a real picture if I were buying the kit... I don't care if the actuall kit is not the item for sale.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:21 AM
JohnPloughman JohnPloughman is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Contact Ebay. It would not be the first time stolen pics of drums were used in a fraudulant auction. Most of the time, with stolen pics, ........ the "item" drums do not exist. It is part of the policing process for ebay, they depend on users to report fraud. Stolen pics is fraud.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

That has happened to me also on some vintage Polk SDA speakers. I offered to sell him a camera so he could take pictures of the speakers he was trying to sell. He removed the photos from e-bay in minutes. I thought it was all pretty funny.
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:39 AM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I can assure you that drummer superstore is a legit business. You won't get ripped off buying non-exsistent or make believe drum sets from them. I'm too tired to go back and read the user agreement for drummer world or the eBay add and whether or not they disclose that the drums pictured aren't for sale.......

......but I have a feeling you might have given that photo away to whom ever wanted it the minute you posted it online.
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

So ... What are they trying to sell? A new set in an "unopened" box? So they took you're photo, which shows what the set looks like ... (color, number of pieces, etc.) Which is far more interesting than a photo of an unopened box, eh? The seller is not claiming the photo to be "the set for sale" ... so, no harm, no foul. You don't own the rights to the photo ... so no big deal. With 3670 sales under their belts, Drummersuperstore looks legit, though I wouldn't buy that kit for $850 ... so good luck to them, on that.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
You don't own the rights to the photo
Uh, he took the photo, so yes, he absolutely does own the rights to a photo he took, and strictly speaking, this is commercial infringement of his copyright. Minimally, they should request to use the photo, provide proper attribution for the photo if he so demands, and pay appropriate licensing fees for usage. You could even submit a DMCA takedown request to eBay and have the photo taken down.

Mind you, there probably isn't really any money to be made off of licensing a single photo in limited usage like this, but maybe it's a good angle for negotiating price on an add-on floor tom. They can use the photo, you can save a few bucks, everyone wins.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2011, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

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Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
Uh, he took the photo, so yes, he absolutely does own the rights to a photo he took, and strictly speaking, this is commercial infringement of his copyright.
Unless he had the image copywritten beforehand then thay have infringed nothing. They have used an image that was posted on a public medium. It's fair game. It's done everyday of the week. He's trying to sell his drums, not your photo. All it tells us is that he's too lazy to take his own pics.
My avatar came from Google images. I didn't draw it, I have no idea who did. They provided it publicly and I borrowed it accordingly. If the artist ever complained, I'd stop using it......but I certainly don't owe him a red cent for displaying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THC View Post
I'm curious how would you deal with situation if it were your kit pics in someone elses ebay ad?
Me? Mate, I have things that are actually worth my time worrying about. I wouldn't deal with this situation at all. I honestly can't see who is disadvantaged by this. Calling ebay....running to the authorities.....it's creating a storm in a tea cup, for mine. I'm not meaning to sound harsh.....merely to provide some perspective. :-)

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 11-14-2011 at 05:33 AM.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2011, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I would ask for an attribution for the picture. I can see why this has upset you but it's not doing any real harm to you personally. I would make it clear that you took this picture and request the seller to attribute accordingly.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2011, 03:51 PM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
He's trying to sell his drums, not your photo. All it tells us is that he's too lazy to take his own pics.
Actually all it tells us is that the actuall set for sale is factory sealed in it's original box. Not to mention, many of the drums they sell ship straight from the manufacturer to your doorstep. I bought my Ludwigs from Drummersuperstore and they came in an unopened box from the Ludwig factory in NC. Alot of their Mapex kits also come from the factory and not in-store stock.

Honestly I thought that running and crying to eBay was a little much... But all you guys suggesting that he try to get money out of it are being ridiculous. It says a lot about the selfish, whiny, self-entitled, poontang-a-fied culture of today.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

no harm, no foul. why get all bunched up over nothing?
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:47 PM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

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Originally Posted by THE MUFFIN MAN View Post
no harm, no foul. why get all bunched up over nothing?
Exactly! If anything, the pic just helped a fellow drummer chose a new kit. Be happy for him/her, and happy drumming!
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I would call them and at least let them know about it. They actually are using your photo to make money. I am a hobby photog. and protect all of my work no matter how insignificant
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:03 PM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I guess if you are a photographer and they stole your "work" or "art", that would be one thing. But come on...
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I wouldn't complain too much as the bass drum is round the wrong way which is excusable and understandable in your enjoyment, excitement and enthusiasm of setting up a new kit but unforgivable for a shop selling drums.

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  #21  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:03 PM
Devils Haircut Devils Haircut is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

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Originally Posted by kuren84 View Post
I wouldn't complain too much as the bass drum is round the wrong way which is excusable and understandable in your enjoyment, excitement and enthusiasm of setting up a new kit but unforgivable for a shop selling drums.

Kevin
Haha, didn't even notice that. Maybe he wants his toms further back... makes sense.?.?...
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I would do exactly what you did, put up a thread and get opinions.

Once you post something on the internet, you gave it to the world. I would be surprised too if I saw my own personal pic somewhere else too, but you put it out there.
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  #23  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Haircut View Post
Haha, didn't even notice that. Maybe he wants his toms further back... makes sense.?.?...
LOL..Yeah, I did that on purpose just to try and get the toms a bit closer. I'm 6' 2" and have to have the bass drum pretty far away. That set up lasted about long enough to try it for a few minutes, snap a few pics, and then take it back apart. I ended just putting the toms on a stand.

I think I'll send them some better ones. ;)


Just to clarify, I am not upset about it at all, and never have been. I have no intention of making a mountain out of a molehole. I understand that once you post something on the internet it's out there for the world, and who knows where it will turn up. They've been using it for a long time. If anything I'm a bit flattered that of all the pics on the web they chose mine.

I've no doubt that Drummer Superstore is a legitimate business. They're all over ebay.
I don't want to run to Ebay and tell. I agree, there are definitely more important things in life to worry about. I probably shouldn't have referred to it a "situation"

I was just curious how others would handle it if they came across the same thing.

About the most I came up with was contacting them, letting them know, then seeing if they'd give me a hell of a deal on a matching 16" floor tom as compensation. They could use my pics all they want then. :) .
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Last edited by THC; 11-13-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

What would I do? It's explained perfectly here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Unless he had the image copywritten beforehand then thay have infringed nothing.
Utterly false.

Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...al.html#mywork

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

THC's photos absolutely are copyrighted and protected under the law, and posting them publicly does nothing to change that. That's like saying that a movie no longer has any copyright protection once it's played in a theater, or a song has no protections once it's on the radio, or a book has no protection once it's in a library.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
THC's photos absolutely are copyrighted and protected under the law, and posting them publicly does nothing to change that. That's like saying that a movie no longer has any copyright protection once it's played in a theater, or a song has no protections once it's on the radio, or a book has no protection once it's in a library.
Maybe it is an infringement, but do you really want to spend the money on an attorney? Even a cease and desist notice will cost you $. If you actually want to sue for damages, (what are your damages?) that will cost more in legal fees which you may recoup after the case has been settled.


You could put a watermark on your photos from now on if it really bothers you. But if you do a google image search, you will find that most photos are not watermarked.

Here is a watermarked example I found using google images.


Jeff
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

They did so they didn't have to open a new one and then have to sell it at a reduced price. Many of us want things sealed in there original packaging.
I have dealt with boys at Drummersuperstore a few times and they are great to deal with. They meant no foul by this. Just trying to prevent opening up the drums. You helped someone get a new never opened kit for Christmas. :)

I would be fine with them using my pick in a positive manner. Call them up and ask for Brad, he might give you some sticks or a head for the use of your pic
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  #28  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:54 PM
Soupy Soupy is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Maybe it is an infringement, but do you really want to spend the money on an attorney?
Never said that I would recommend such. Jumping straight to the "nuclear" option is somewhat silly. But it isn't my photo that got used, so it isn't my decision either.

I do think that is important that everyone understand their rights, especially when there is a lot of misinformation floating around.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Unless you payed to license the Mapex brand you do not REALLY own this picture. Hypothetical...." you have committed fraud with my picture I'm suing you for 100 million dollars wuhahaha" - Mapex- " you profited off of our brand without licensing so we are suing you for 100 million dollars, wuhahaha"
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
That's like saying that a movie no longer has any copyright protection once it's played in a theater, or a song has no protections once it's on the radio, or a book has no protection once it's in a library.
There is no correlation with those examples at all. Movies, music and literature are all protected via copywrite or publishing rights before they enter into the public domain.....there's disclaimers at the end of films, on album artwork and on book blurbs that are installed long before they hit the public domain. You can't seriously be suggesting a generic picture taken of a drum kit is in any way the same thing?

Peoples "rights" are one thing. You're big on them in the States and I realise our differing veiwpoints are probably as much down to cultural diversity as anything else. But until I actually see someones rights infringed, my position on this won't change. It's a photo that has been used to sell a similar drumkit......not a Leibovitz snap that was swiped and either passed off as the work of someone else or used for financial gain. He's not selling the pic, he's selling the drums.

I'm happy to stand corrected on the timing of when something is deemed to have been copywritten.......but I still can't see who has been genuinely aggrieved by this scenario. I honestly don't get why this is such a big deal. It is a storm in a tea cup if ever I've seen one.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 11-14-2011 at 02:41 AM.
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  #31  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:05 AM
Lickety Britches Lickety Britches is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

i had a very similar thing happen to me. i was selling an amp on craigslist and someone posted another ad with the same pic. i called him and asked him politely if he would take down the picture and he insisted the pic was his and he took it and we must just have similar houses. it was pretty ridiculous, the idea that someone would actually lie about something so petty blew my mind. sorry... thats pretty irrelevant, i would do the same though. rather than get any one else involved, just see if hed be nice enough to remove it. if he refuses, report it.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Having that photo as well as the stock 'promo' photos implies that the one in your photo is the actual kit for sale. It's not really misrepresentation as such, but they probably should have stated that it was not the actual kit. I dealt with drummersuperstore recently and they are good guys, but I would still email them. If you don't then they will just use that photo again next time they advertise a green Meridian Birch. Try get a discount on something (in addition to their discount for joining the CSM forum) but I doubt they would give you much, otherwise they'll just unbox a kit and take some photos of their own.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

If you do a Google image search for "Mapex Meridian Birch Black Forest Fade" your pic is:

√ 8th overall
√ 2nd non-stock pic
√ 1st non-stock set-up to play pic

The seller went looking for a pic and yours was easy to find. As someone else pointed out, you have turned your kick around, presumably to get your toms out over the, what is now, the front hoop. I wonder if the seller is getting questions as to the spurs located at the drivers end.
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  #34  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kettles View Post
Having that photo as well as the stock 'promo' photos implies that the one in your photo is the actual kit for sale. It's not really misrepresentation as such, but they probably should have stated that it was not the actual kit. I dealt with drummersuperstore recently and they are good guys, but I would still email them. If you don't then they will just use that photo again next time they advertise a green Meridian Birch. Try get a discount on something (in addition to their discount for joining the CSM forum) but I doubt they would give you much, otherwise they'll just unbox a kit and take some photos of their own.
You can get that discount as a member of my site also. In fact anyone can if you just ask. :)
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  #35  
Old 11-14-2011, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

I had a similar thing happen where a guy used my photo to sell his drums on craigslist. I emailed the guy about it and he went on and on about being endorsed by Sonor and this was a kit they gave him. I said too bad Sonor didn't give you a camera to take pics of the kit. Also, my kit was a different model than what he was selling. What a jackass.
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  #36  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Haircut View Post

Honestly I thought that running and crying to eBay was a little much... But all you guys suggesting that he try to get money out of it are being ridiculous. It says a lot about the selfish, whiny, self-entitled, poontang-a-fied culture of today.
+1 Everyone wants a handout
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  #37  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Oh, they probably just have some schlep (is that Yiddish?) who doesn't know squat about drums doing the e-bay work for 10 bucks an hour.
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  #38  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPloughman View Post
Contact Ebay. It would not be the first time stolen pics of drums were used in a fraudulant auction. Most of the time, with stolen pics, ........ the "item" drums do not exist. It is part of the policing process for ebay, they depend on users to report fraud. Stolen pics is fraud.
Agreed. Maybe the seller is legit and just too lazy to get their own pictures of their own stuff. But unless you are using stock photos, the photos should be of the actual item you are selling. I would also contact eBay, if it annoys you that people are swiping your photo. It is YOUR photo and if you don't want using it for any reason, or no reason at all, then you are entitled to do it. If this seller is going to go to mommy eBay to sell their stuff, then you are also entitled to go to mommy eBay.

The right way to handle this would have been for the seller to email you and ask permission. I would allow someone to do something like that - if they asked.
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2011, 08:32 AM
Jim Mattingly Jim Mattingly is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Go by my philosophy...."It Is What It Is", I personally don't see it as a big deal. You are not loosing any money or business over this. Quite unethical, yes...That being said, they certainly are not posting nude pics of my wife, so it would not be a big deal too me....Like someone else posted, I have alot more important things to worry about than someone snaking pics of my kit...
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:17 PM
Soupy Soupy is offline
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Default Re: Ebay seller stole my pic - What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
There is no correlation with those examples at all. Movies, music and literature are all protected via copywrite or publishing rights before they enter into the public domain.....there's disclaimers at the end of films, on album artwork and on book blurbs that are installed long before they hit the public domain. You can't seriously be suggesting a generic picture taken of a drum kit is in any way the same thing?
Photographs, movies, books, and music are exactly the same thing. All have equal protection under copyright law. All are protected by copyright the moment they are created and do not need disclaimers or blurbs for that to be true. Music certainly contains no such tags in the recording, but copyright on audio recordings is vicously defended in court. Just ask Joel Tenenbaum.

Quote:
Peoples "rights" are one thing. You're big on them in the States and I realise our differing veiwpoints are probably as much down to cultural diversity as anything else. But until I actually see someones rights infringed, my position on this won't change. It's a photo that has been used to sell a similar drumkit......not a Leibovitz snap that was swiped and either passed off as the work of someone else or used for financial gain. He's not selling the pic, he's selling the drums.
People's rights are defined by copyright law, so our viewpoints don't matter much. Which is somewhat unfortunate, but I personally don't have the funds to buy a congressman to rewrite copyright law like the Disney Corporation can.

Seriously, would you suggest that someone could use a John Lennon song to sell blue jeans in a TV commercial without licensing the rights for the music first? After all, you're selling the pants, not the song. And if you told a judge that, Yoko Ono would be laughing all the way to the bank. (I really have no idea who owns the Lennon catalog, but you get my point).

Quote:
I'm happy to stand corrected on the timing of when something is deemed to have been copywritten.......
Australia has been a signee of the Berne Covemtion since 1920, (the US only since 1989), so that fact holds true in both countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ght_agreements

Quote:
but I still can't see who has been genuinely aggrieved by this scenario. I honestly don't get why this is such a big deal. It is a storm in a tea cup if ever I've seen one.
Honestly, I agree with you completely in this case, if it were my snapshot. But I am not a professional photographer. This thread could easily be about a person who is only a hobbiest drummer but is a professional photographer, who has significant interest in defending their photography. It doesnt really matter that the actual damages in this case might only be dollars or even just pennies.

Last edited by Soupy; 11-14-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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