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  #1  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:12 PM
deathdrummer666 deathdrummer666 is offline
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Default Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Hey all,

I play extreme metal in my band with some thrash influence, bands like Cryptopsy, Nile,The Berzerker, Black Dahlia Murder and Wintersun. All that is important is I play a lot of blast beats at fast tempos and hit very hard. I cannot seem to find cymbals that last...I have broken HHX's, A customs, Z customs Paiste's rude serious cymbals in a matter of months. The local cymbal companies around here are not very good but I have seen advertisements for cymbals called "Soultone" anybody know if these are any good/ would they be durable enough for a death metal drummer to play? If they aren't just any advise on extremely durable and good sounding cymbals would be very much appreciated.



Thank you
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:56 PM
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PQleyR PQleyR is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Any videos of your playing so we can see how you hit them?

Counter-intuitive though it may seem, thinner cymbals are actually more durable since they flex more and so are less likely to break. Thicker cymbals will break more easily.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2011, 08:20 PM
deathdrummer666 deathdrummer666 is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Unfortunately I do not. Nor do I own a camera to record to show you.
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:44 PM
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Red Menace Red Menace is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Sounds like a technique issue to me. I'm all for loud metal drumming but at the point where you're going through gear as fast as you are then maybe it's really time to look at your technique.

Thinner sticks might help, I'm guessing you're using 5B's or something. If you're miked up then you're not going to need the extra volume.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:55 AM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathdrummer666 View Post
Hey all,

I play extreme metal in my band with some thrash influence, bands like Cryptopsy, Nile,The Berzerker, Black Dahlia Murder and Wintersun. All that is important is I play a lot of blast beats at fast tempos and hit very hard. I cannot seem to find cymbals that last...I have broken HHX's, A customs, Z customs Paiste's rude serious cymbals in a matter of months. The local cymbal companies around here are not very good but I have seen advertisements for cymbals called "Soultone" anybody know if these are any good/ would they be durable enough for a death metal drummer to play? If they aren't just any advise on extremely durable and good sounding cymbals would be very much appreciated.



Thank you
Firstly,you have to stop blaming the cymbals.You have cracked cymbals produced by the top 3 cymbal makers in the world,

You have to face the fact that you are:
1...hitting way too hard
2...have a technique problem

With cymbals as with any instrument..drums,guitars,piano..if you strike it too hard,you will do two things.You will possible damage it,and you will choke it.The sound you will then get from it is noise.The same applies to drums and cymbals.If you're hitting it that hard that the cymbal is cracking....you have gone way beyond making music,and are now making just noise.

Drummers with good technique can hit hard but still get a great sound out of their instrument,because they hit properly,while still ....looking ......like they are beating the crap out of it.

You need softer hands my friend.I broke 2 cymbals back when I was in my teens.Then I finally listened to my drum teacher and learned HOW to hit the drums,and the cymbals.
I played Rock and some jazz for around 50 years and have never cracked another cymbal.

Soultone cymbals has a website to listen to their cymbals,but they seem to be more focused toward jazz players than metal.

Steve B
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  #6  
Old 05-14-2011, 02:43 AM
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braincramp braincramp is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

I have to agree with everyone here..I use 2B sticks and have played metal/hard rock my whole life..I'm 48 and have only cracked ONE cymbal...if your cracking Rude's you gotta be doing something wrong...
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2011, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

I'd have to ask:

Are you using cymbal sleeves? Any metal contact will lead to a cymbal breaking.

Do you tighten down the wing nuts? over tightening the wing nut can lead to cracks.

What sizes are you using? If you're mostly using 16"s it could be you are hitting too hard to over compensate for the fact small cymbals are not going to be as loud as an 18" or 19".

I don't know. Most people who play blast beats don't actually hit that hard because they're keeping their strokes shorter to get the speed. And even the hardest hitting most aggressive drummers out usually don't break cymbals with-in months.

There is more to it then what brand you're choosing.
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2011, 05:17 AM
deathdrummer666 deathdrummer666 is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Firstly,you have to stop blaming the cymbals.You have cracked cymbals produced by the top 3 cymbal makers in the world,

You have to face the fact that you are:
1...hitting way too hard
2...have a technique problem

With cymbals as with any instrument..drums,guitars,piano..if you strike it too hard,you will do two things.You will possible damage it,and you will choke it.The sound you will then get from it is noise.The same applies to drums and cymbals.If you're hitting it that hard that the cymbal is cracking....you have gone way beyond making music,and are now making just noise.

Drummers with good technique can hit hard but still get a great sound out of their instrument,because they hit properly,while still ....looking ......like they are beating the crap out of it.

You need softer hands my friend.I broke 2 cymbals back when I was in my teens.Then I finally listened to my drum teacher and learned HOW to hit the drums,and the cymbals.
I played Rock and some jazz for around 50 years and have never cracked another cymbal.

Soultone cymbals has a website to listen to their cymbals,but they seem to be more focused toward jazz players than metal.

Steve B
Well I'm self taught and been playing for two years, so try not judge too hard haha I guess lessons for technique sure would help. Thanks for the advise.
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2011, 05:23 AM
deathdrummer666 deathdrummer666 is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I'd have to ask:

Are you using cymbal sleeves? Any metal contact will lead to a cymbal breaking.

Do you tighten down the wing nuts? over tightening the wing nut can lead to cracks.

What sizes are you using? If you're mostly using 16"s it could be you are hitting too hard to over compensate for the fact small cymbals are not going to be as loud as an 18" or 19".

I don't know. Most people who play blast beats don't actually hit that hard because they're keeping their strokes shorter to get the speed. And even the hardest hitting most aggressive drummers out usually don't break cymbals with-in months.

There is more to it then what brand you're choosing.

The smallest cymbals I have 8 and 10 inches for my splashes and my hi hats are 14" everything else being my crashes, chinas and ride are all 18 or over and yeah your not the first person to say that, I guess the orthodox way to do blasts is using a lot of wrist and fingers when I primarily use forearms...again Ive been playing for 2 years and Im self taught....so forgive me for seeming like I dont know much hahaha.
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2011, 09:18 AM
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Evilbagua Evilbagua is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

I think everyone here nailed it. I don't think it's the cymbals. Unless we see how your playing them/the angle of them etc I don't think anything will help you. I used to break cymbals frequently (crashes/splashes/chinas) not as quickly as you said though. I am a pretty big dude, and I play metal grindcore/death metal/doom and when I blast I always wanted a lot of volume so I wouldn't play with fingers lightly, full force all the time. Also I originally thought like you to get huge thick cymbals (z customs), turns out I like them, but thats beside the point. I've cracked cast and sheet cymbals, thick and thin etc. I don't think cymbal thickness is going to prevent breakage unless it's like a power ride even hit with a hammer that would be fine.

With time I fixed my technique and angle's they were set up at/hit, I always check the cymbal sleeves frequently and make sure nothing is over tightened. I also started using sticks around 5A size. Since then I have only broken a splash which isn't that bad. I think if I ever wanted to use larger sticks again I wouldn't be cracking things.

Anyway if your going to be eating cymbals this quickly and are looking for a new line to check out then I'd look at Sabian's APX. They are way cheaper than Z3's/rudes and still sound really good. If your gunna smash um don't waste as much $ atleast.

Last edited by Evilbagua; 05-14-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-14-2011, 10:17 AM
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Goreliscious Goreliscious is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

I have to agree with 'tamadrm', it aint the cymals, it's you. I know it aint much fun being told that and it can feel like we're being high and mighty, but we're saying it for your own good.

Cymbal felts are a must. Transporting cymbals carefully is a must. Don't over tighten the nut that holds them down. Don't let your band mates have a go and abuse your gear. Developing your technique from forearm to wrist to fingers will definitely help. Most importantly tough - don't be a rock star and smash the hell outta them, even if you play to 11, they'll only go to 10.

I've play sludge//death metal with 16" crashes and they're loud enough to cut through B tuned walls of distorted bass and guitar. I've seen sludge bands that wanna sell an image of playing to 11 so they smash the hell out of their cymbals and because of that they use Stagg cymbals because they're cheaper to replace.
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2011, 01:32 PM
xymbalreborn
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

I'm endorsed by Soultone and I play all sorts of genres (mostly rock and metal). Check out my youtube page in my signature below. They sound GREAT.

However, much like everyone else responding, it sounds like you unnecessarily bash your cymbals. Any cymbal will break if you crack at it hard enough. It's not a good or cool thing to do. Truth me told, when I marched cymbals in college, I broke 3 cymbals from just crashing them! Bear in mind though, it WAS marching band.

If you want to hear some metal played on some Soultones, check out my vids. If you want to stop breaking cymbals, change your technique.
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2011, 02:03 PM
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PQleyR PQleyR is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Actually, if you did want to solve this problem by buying something, you could always hunt down some old Zyn 5-Stars, they are pretty much the only kind of cymbal I never managed to break in my old bashing days, AND they've been going for 40+ years. That's probably the exception to the rule though...and not a totally serious suggestion on my part, of course. I do wonder why they are so hard-wearing though, they're very thick. Maybe it's because they're so loud that you don't need to hit them so hard.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2011, 09:26 PM
deathdrummer666 deathdrummer666 is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Ok thanks for the tips everyone. Sounds like I need to get me some drum lessons! hahaha Thanks again everyone!
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:19 PM
The Middle C The Middle C is offline
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by braincramp View Post
I have to agree with everyone here..I use 2B sticks and have played metal/hard rock my whole life..I'm 48 and have only cracked ONE cymbal...if your cracking Rude's you gotta be doing something wrong...
All that should be said, paiste rudes were forged in the bowels of the underworld
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Death Metal/ Thrash Drummer, Need Cymbal Advice!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathdrummer666 View Post
...I have broken HHX's, A customs, Z customs Paiste's rude serious cymbals in a matter of months.
I stopped reading right about here.
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