DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #121  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:08 AM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

[QUOTEThere are a 4 voices in my head telling me what to play at all times.[/quote]

Have you sought psychiatric help?
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:02 AM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,836
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Yes I count every measure in a language that sounds like this,
1 a2ena3 a4na1 2 3 a4 na1. There is a separate voice in my head that keeps the measure count.
If I play a long roll I simply count the beats for the duration of the roll
If I have a 1 beat rest, I simply say the word rest in my head.
If it is a 4 beat stop, I say rest, rest, rest, rest 1 and come in on the 1.
there is also a voice in my head that says the rudiment such as flam, Paradiddle, etc.There is a voice that is thinking ahead that speaks in verbel phrases.
There are a 4 voices in my head telling me what to play at all times.
Now that's something I can't do Bob. Perhaps in the very formative stages of rehearsing a new tune, or a significant new arrangement, or ground up composition, but never during a performance. The counting thing is a structural blueprint thing for me. It describes the foundations, but nothing more than that. Just like building a house, I don't look at the foundation drawings when building the roof. When I'm performing, the only thing I have in my head is the song. I've even mostly forgotten the structure, leaving all my limited brain power to concentrate on meter, groove & dynamic. If I had to count whilst performing, there's no way I'd have the capacity for those feel & performance elements that matter so much. Counting, just as sight reading, takes away the organic elements of a performance IMO, and replaces them with a degree of sterility. Of course, the caveat is that we're all different, & that is enough for celebration right there.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:15 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
OK, I'm only speaking for myself and your little snide remark about being capable of not wanting to do something, whew, you got me. You the man.
You say being able to read makes you a better player, I say you are wrong. I know guys who took band at school and learn to read note for note, I can out play them easily. I'm not talking about speed or crazy technique, I'm talking about just playing with musical taste. So you see, just because you can read music, does not automatically move you to the front of the drum line.
See, there is the cause and effect confusion I was talking about. I'm sure you can play rings around certain other less skilled/talented players. But it isn't the formal lessons or having learned to read that makes them worse drummers than you. It's that they don't have the musical sensibilities, talent or probably the dedication. In fact, if it wasn't for the lessons and learning music intellectually, they wouldn't be able to play anything at all.

Not having learned what you are doing is not what makes you better. It's that you are a more natural musician.

Now, consider what would happen if you took that natural musicianship and added learning how music works. You've just short circuited years of listening to records, slowing them down, putting in hours and hours figuring out what that cool thing they were doing was. Because you either recognize what it is right off from knowing the theory behind it, or you got hold of a transcription and read it. Consider how fast you could advance by being able to assimilate things that easily.

Yeah, there's some effort to develop the foundation. But the rewards are insane if getting better and being able to play anything that strikes your fancy matter to you.

Imagine if you were illiterate and couldn't write your thoughts down on these forums. And you couldn't understand what other people where saying. Your world would be limited to the folks you could meet face to face and convince to show you things. You could get by, but why handicap yourself like that?
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:15 AM
Swiss Matthias's Avatar
Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 3,185
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I would argue that reading is not the language of music; it is one language of music:
Of course, written music isn't any language per se, it's just the attempt to bring the sound of paper (and quite a poor one actually...).


By the way, nice post Aeolian! You make the advantage of knowing how to read pretty clear yet in a perfectly neutral way.

Some are still confusing the ability to read with - I don't know - the urge to count everything all the time, sight reading, being stuck
with notes instead of being creative, whatever... The truth is, notes just try to catch music on paper, and a great musician catches the
notes back and makes music again out of it.

It's really just instead of saying "bum ba bum ba" there are some dots and beams on a paper. What's dangerous about that? If I say
bum ba bum ba to my student, he probably forgets it as soon as he gets home, if he has the dots on the paper he can remember.
But whether his "bum ba" sounds great really isn't dependent on the fact that he read it from paper, or recalled it somehow else.

Last edited by Swiss Matthias; 09-25-2010 at 01:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:36 AM
JT1's Avatar
JT1 JT1 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bedlington, UK
Posts: 731
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
I don't think anyone with the contrary view to yours went that route. We are all obviously reacting to this small handful who celebrate their inability to read as if its some kind of religious lifestyle decision that actually improves and enhances their abilities as musicians.

That's a joke, and hampers the learning experience. And anyone who drinks that kool aid is living in a dream world.

It's also the kind of thing that is supposed to irritate people who are trying to be serious about this music stuff. To me the miltant drumming existentialist believes that all greatness is extracted from a 4th dimension and above reality that repudiates the absurd work demanded of us poor shlubs who exist on the earth plane. This is also many of the same crowd who repudiate technique lessons and contrary points of view. Yet they are the first to claim we don't get them.

Man if you're having a great experience without the use of written music that's great. But in no way is it a superior approach.

Does that make sense?
Yes it does make sense and now if you go back and read my post again in no way in there do I brag about it being superior ok? I always thought you were more observant than that Matt.

Nor did I ever say I was 'celebrating' I said I was happy with what I'm doing, it's hardly me jumping about going 'yay I can't read music'... even though I CAN read the basics.

Yes if you want to be open for a career in drumming you need to read music fluently, I'm not dumb, pretty much everyone knows that however if you have started a band and you like to do your own thing it'll probably be one of the last things on your mind.

So please stop assuming that we think reading is a bad idea, cause that's not what we are saying, we are simply saying we are getting along fine without it.

Also you can take the music seriously if you want, I know you've made quite a name for yourself taking music seriously and I respect that but you know, I'm having fun and I'm not turning it into a chore as I already have a career and other commitments that make me a living.
__________________
Totally addicted to BASS....drum...pedals
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:53 AM
JPW JPW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 818
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Why didn't any of my teachers ask if I wanted to learn to read or not? They just corrupted me without even asking about it. And they get paid for it! How silly is that? There should be somekind of a law protecting your fragile creative soul from this kind of evil stuff.

Why isn't there a debate about recording vs not recording yourself?

And I know one even better: counting vs not counting.

And a classic: hit a drum or not. I personally hit them sometimes, with a stick!

(yes, this thread got more serious)

Last edited by JPW; 09-25-2010 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 09-25-2010, 01:59 PM
bigd bigd is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 522
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

This thread ROCKS!!!!!!!!!

Most entertainment I've had in a while.

Matt Smith you go boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 09-25-2010, 02:37 PM
last man to bat's Avatar
last man to bat last man to bat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 259
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by con struct View Post
Yes, that's something that jazz players have been struggling with for decades now. :)
lol, yeah you have me there...
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 09-25-2010, 03:00 PM
mattsmith's Avatar
mattsmith mattsmith is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Most Everywhere
Posts: 1,915
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT1 View Post
Yes it does make sense and now if you go back and read my post again in no way in there do I brag about it being superior ok? I always thought you were more observant than that Matt.

Nor did I ever say I was 'celebrating' I said I was happy with what I'm doing, it's hardly me jumping about going 'yay I can't read music'... even though I CAN read the basics.


So please stop assuming that we think reading is a bad idea, cause that's not what we are saying, we are simply saying we are getting along fine without it.

Also you can take the music seriously if you want, I know you've made quite a name for yourself taking music seriously and I respect that but you know, I'm having fun and I'm not turning it into a chore as I already have a career and other commitments that make me a living.
I was observant...observant enough to notice that you were not one of those who celebrated an inability to read music. Now please go back and see if I mentioned you in any way. What I observed was that a reasonable poster had mistakedly assumed we were attacking everyone with the viewpoint that reading was not always essential for what they wanted out of music. I even asked Is that fair so as not to associate you specifically with some of these other guys who are touting their ignorance a positive lifestyle decision.

Did I also actually read someone call music readers Ivory Tower?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
Wow, dude, come down off that cloud you're on, I was not talking about you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
I don't want to learn to twirl my sticks, get a award for "the fastest drummer" or learn to play the accordian either.
Oh I'm sorry you were talking about somebody else?

Look, why not just take your axe to the pms?

Man, this is the single goofiest thread I've ever seen here, and that's saying a lot.

Great post Aeolian.
__________________
I endorse Zildjian sticks because I like them.

Last edited by mattsmith; 09-25-2010 at 03:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 09-25-2010, 03:09 PM
last man to bat's Avatar
last man to bat last man to bat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 259
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

How about the life enhancement that comes from learning something that makes you a more rounded musician? And how about the concept that learning music is also about the perpetuation of music?

I see what you are saying Matt, and you are right, reading for me has been a wonderful experience as I have learnt new things. But I have learnt things that I want to know now at this stage in my life. I am glad that when I was 14 I didn't have lessons/read etc. Everything I played was original, as in I had never come across it before, it was a journey of discovery where everything I played I discovered.

Now I look at playing as using everything I have already learnt in different combinations. I am now pooling from an already existent world of rudiments, rhythms etc. Everytime I work out something new I am happy, but usually to discover that it is not new at all...

I have lost the excitement of one kind of discovery to be replaced by another...

I'm not sure that I am explaining myself very well. I do not mean to say that I was a happy ignorant, but that I used to think about music and putting a groove down in a different way than the way I do these days.


You're always a very nice guy, but again this isn't either/or. It is entirely appropriate to decide whether you want to read or not for whatever reason. But questioning if reading actually improves you is not an aesthetic consideration.

But I think it is a consideration of how reading might improve you, how you view music from then on... It does most definitely change your angle on things. I think we need people from both sides of the reading not reading world, it is part of what helps to make music diverse.

Look, this is such a no brainer that even Jay Norum and I are in total lockstep agreement. And when that happens either there's an absolute truth in play or hell has truly frozen over.

Yeah Jay I know. I feel wierd too.


It is always nice to find common ground ;)

BTW I am not here for an argument I genuinely enjoy the discussion
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 09-25-2010, 03:26 PM
mattsmith's Avatar
mattsmith mattsmith is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Most Everywhere
Posts: 1,915
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by last man to bat View Post
BTW I am not here for an argument I genuinely enjoy the discussion
No worries man. I'm enjoying it too. I'm presently back in the US for a few days and its been cool sitting around and jumping more into the discussions. I always enjoy conversations with heat but still within the tent. A couple of people here have tried to open the flap, but so far so good.
__________________
I endorse Zildjian sticks because I like them.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 09-25-2010, 04:00 PM
bobdadruma's Avatar
bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: second measure of a fill-in
Posts: 11,176
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Now that's something I can't do Bob. Perhaps in the very formative stages of rehearsing a new tune, or a significant new arrangement, or ground up composition, but never during a performance. The counting thing is a structural blueprint thing for me. It describes the foundations, but nothing more than that. Just like building a house, I don't look at the foundation drawings when building the roof. When I'm performing, the only thing I have in my head is the song. I've even mostly forgotten the structure, leaving all my limited brain power to concentrate on meter, groove & dynamic. If I had to count whilst performing, there's no way I'd have the capacity for those feel & performance elements that matter so much. Counting, just as sight reading, takes away the organic elements of a performance IMO, and replaces them with a degree of sterility. Of course, the caveat is that we're all different, & that is enough for celebration right there.
I was taught how to play in a competition Drum Corps.
This is how I was taught to play while I marched.
When I began playing a kit I simply carried it over.

In Competition Drum Corps every sticking, and step has to be exactly like the rest of the drum line.
That is the reason for counting.
I have never known what it is like to play without counting and saying the rudiment in my head.
__________________
I kind of like old drums:)

Last edited by bobdadruma; 09-25-2010 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:08 PM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
I was observant...observant enough to notice that you were not one of those who celebrated an inability to read music. Now please go back and see if I mentioned you in any way. What I observed was that a reasonable poster had mistakedly assumed we were attacking everyone with the viewpoint that reading was not always essential for what they wanted out of music. I even asked Is that fair so as not to associate you specifically with some of these other guys who are touting their ignorance a positive lifestyle decision.

Did I also actually read someone call music readers Ivory Tower?




Oh I'm sorry you were talking about somebody else?

Look, why not just take your axe to the pms?

Man, this is the single goofiest thread I've ever seen here, and that's saying a lot.

Great post Aeolian.
Matt, I did not realize you could play the accordian, but believe me, I was not refering to anyone in particular. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:08 PM
mattsmith's Avatar
mattsmith mattsmith is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Most Everywhere
Posts: 1,915
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

To further the point I'm trying to make please check out this guy. His name is Louis Cato and I've mentioned him before. Louis is in possession of one of the best natural funk grooves in the music business today. He is a good friend and is currently laying down tracks for my new show. Here he is with Marcus Miller playing Freddie Hubbard's Mr. Clean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxX4pOHtsHI

Now check out what's next to that drumset. It's a sheet of music. The reason it's there is because Louis didn't know Mr. Clean and because of that music he knew it within seconds. He didn't need to hear it a few times. And he was able to use both the music and the fantastic ear to nail it cold one time on a much higher level. All you who think the music is going to mess with your fluidity, what do you think? Does it sound like that sheet of music ruined any of that?

Seriously folks. it's a myth. It's not an either/or. It absolutely aids the natural stuff too because it stimulates a total thinking and feeling process.

Now here's Louis again, this time playing the bass that he uses when backing R&B singers like Bryan McNight and when he's helping with my project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SujU...eature=related

Wow, more natural feeling and fluidity again huh?

But you know how he learned to play bass?

Notational reading...and the reason I know this is because my father was his teacher. This notational reading also made him an all state tuba player in high school. In other words he gets to not only play a piece in the chess match, he gets to be the whole board.

Give me this approach any time.

Finally let's settle this issue once and for all. No one is ridiculing anyone who doesn't want to go the whole 9 yards. No one called you any of several names I've seen implied on this thread either. Those are things you claimed we implied as if mind reading was yet another talent acquired when you made the conscious decision not to read. All I ask is that if you want to actually try to debate a contrary view about something as reaching as this that you please stick to what is actually seen on your computer screen. Moreover, stand behind the words you originally made. Don't step back when you don't like the direction and say you didn't say something when you did. And if this is a memory issue I will be glad to provide your quote for you.

Yes, I know some of this sounds caustic to some. But when it comes to issues like this there has to be a line drawn. This is one of the most valuable music tools there is we're talking about. You simply don't devalue that. And OK if the 2-3 here don't want to listen, there are those 150 or so who are hanging around lurking, meaning there very well may be some of those who can profit from a balanced discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
Matt, I did not realize you could play the accordian, but believe me, I was not refering to anyone in particular. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
And that's why I didn't boldface that in my post... so there would be no misunderstanding.

Seriously man, why not give it up the gimmicks or consider the pms already requested?
__________________
I endorse Zildjian sticks because I like them.

Last edited by mattsmith; 09-25-2010 at 06:49 PM. Reason: double words
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:32 PM
bobdadruma's Avatar
bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: second measure of a fill-in
Posts: 11,176
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Let's not forget one important thing.
Just because you are reading music doesn't mean that you can't stray from what is written a bit when you want to.

Reading music and counting when you play does not make you a robot or a drum machine.
I often change what I am playing to fit what the band is playing at the time.
If the band changes, I will change!
I still always count time and measures.

Here is an example of how counting measures can help.
Last week our guitar player had a brain fart on stage and he didn't play the same lead that he always plays during a song.
I was counting and I knew that the lead lasted for 8 measures and then we stop for 4 beats.
I stopped on the 8 and my bass player who doesn't count missed the stop because he was waiting for the lead guitar to play what he was expecting to hear.
__________________
I kind of like old drums:)

Last edited by bobdadruma; 09-25-2010 at 06:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:59 PM
droveto's Avatar
droveto droveto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 214
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

There's nothing wrong with being satisfied with not learning to read and playing happily along to things you already know, but to combine that attitude with the idea of becoming a pro is not going to work out for most people.
It's all about odds. You can still beat the odds with a few less than great decisions, but if you want to have the best odds of achieving something, you need to learn as much as you can and being able to communicate with other musicians without talking or playing your instrument is highly valuable.
There should be very little debate on this.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:12 PM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
To further the point I'm trying to make please check out this guy. His name is Louis Cato and I've mentioned him before. Louis is in possession of one of the best natural funk grooves in the music business today. He is a good friend and is currently laying down tracks for my new show. Here he is with Marcus Miller playing Freddie Hubbard's Mr. Clean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxX4pOHtsHI

Now check out what's next to that drumset. It's a sheet of music. The reason it's there is because Louis didn't know Mr. Clean and because of that music he knew it within seconds. He didn't need to hear it a few times. And he was able to use both the music and the fantastic ear to nail it cold one time on a much higher level. All you who think the music is going to mess with your fluidity, what do you think? Does it sound like that sheet of music ruined any of that?

Seriously folks. it's a myth. It's not an either/or. It absolutely aids the natural stuff too because it stimulates a total thinking and feeling process.

Now here's Louis again, this time playing the bass that he uses when backing R&B singers like Bryan McNight and when he's helping with my project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SujU...eature=related

Wow, more natural feeling and fluidity again huh?

But you know how he learned to play bass?

Notational reading...and the reason I know this is because my father was his teacher. This notational reading also made him an all state tuba player in high school. In other words he gets to not only play a piece in the chess match, he gets to be the whole board.

Give me this approach any time.

Finally let's settle this issue once and for all. No one is ridiculing anyone who doesn't want to go the whole 9 yards. No one called you any of several names I've seen implied on this thread either. Those are things you claimed we implied as if mind reading was yet another talent acquired when you made the conscious decision not to read. All I ask is that if you want to actually try to debate a contrary view about something as reaching as this that you please stick to what is actually seen on your computer screen. Moreover, stand behind the words you originally made. Don't step back when you don't like the direction and say you didn't say something when you did. And if this is a memory issue I will be glad to provide your quote for you.

Yes, I know some of this sounds caustic to some. But when it comes to issues like this there has to be a line drawn. This is one of the most valuable music tools there is we're talking about. You simply don't devalue that. And OK if the 2-3 here don't want to listen, there are those 150 or so who are hanging around lurking, meaning there very well may be some of those who can profit from a balanced discussion.


And that's why I didn't boldface that in my post... so there would be no misunderstanding.

Seriously man, why not give it up the gimmicks or consider the pms already requested?
So, you're saying he never rehearsed with this band before the show? I also noticed the guy had good chops, read or not, you have to have the chops first, it looked to me like most of what he did was improvised.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:22 PM
Steamer's Avatar
Steamer Steamer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,755
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by droveto View Post
There's nothing wrong with being satisfied with not learning to read and playing happily along to things you already know, but to combine that attitude with the idea of becoming a pro is not going to work out for most people.
It's all about odds. You can still beat the odds with a few less than great decisions, but if you want to have the best odds of achieving something, you need to learn as much as you can and being able to communicate with other musicians without talking or playing your instrument is highly valuable.
There should be very little debate on this.
Exactly...........

I've heard this belief floating around since I first picked up the sticks in the late 60's.

When I heard some older amateur players in my town tell me this a part of me thought it was suspect from the get go. Same story every time back then, learning to read or taking drum lessons will take away my natural creativity and edge. I was right in thinking as still only a child...... pure HOGWASH!

Same story, different time. still pure HOGWASH! :}

I've learned music and many things related to drumming by ear and intuition and trusting my emotions COMBINED with a full musical education well in high school. WHY?....because early on music was my #1 passion and I knew deep inside the voice telling me that my "tool box" needed to be well equipped if any hope of being a pro player down the road was to happen. Again WHY? Competition is insane in that department so why choose to be anything but being best equipped to take on the challenge and the challenges that were to come. Logic would prevale on what to do....nothing different today in my view.

Remember these are thoughts to consider for those wishing to become serious professionals about it in a competitive world and I hold nothing against those who just do it for their own fun and enjoyment.
__________________
Stan

ISTANBUL AGOP CYMBALS
PEACE DRUMS

www.myspace.com/setstan
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:27 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by droveto View Post
There's nothing wrong with being satisfied with not learning to read and playing happily along to things you already know, but to combine that attitude with the idea of becoming a pro is not going to work out for most people.
It's all about odds. You can still beat the odds with a few less than great decisions, but if you want to have the best odds of achieving something, you need to learn as much as you can and being able to communicate with other musicians without talking or playing your instrument is highly valuable.
There should be very little debate on this.
This is the best way to sum it up.

Pretty much can end the thread right there.

Excellent post.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:58 PM
mattsmith's Avatar
mattsmith mattsmith is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Most Everywhere
Posts: 1,915
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Exactly...........

I've heard this belief floating around since I first picked up the sticks in the late 60's.

When I heard some older amateur players in my town tell me this a part of me thought it was suspect from the get go. Same story every time back then, learning to read or taking drum lessons will take away my natural creativity and edge. I was right in thinking as still only a child...... pure HOGWASH!

Same story, different time. still pure HOGWASH! :}

I've learned music and many things related to drumming by ear and intuition and trusting my emotions COMBINED with a full musical education well in high school. WHY?....because early on music was my #1 passion and I knew deep inside the voice telling me that my "tool box" needed to be well equipped if any hope of being a pro player down the road was to happen. Again WHY? Competition is insane in that department so why choose to be anything but being best equipped to take on the challenge and the challenges that were to come. Logic would prevale on what to do....nothing different today in my view.

Remember these are thoughts to consider for those wishing to become serious professionals about it in a competitive world and I hold nothing against those who just do it for their own fun and enjoyment.
Exactly Stan.

But time and time again, you will still have a defensive and belligerent hobby player try to stand a guy like you down as if his pov is even remotely equal to yours. I've also been seeing this in the tiny amount of time that I've been involved. My theory is there are a lot of guys who chose another direction in their lives always believing they could be a guy like you the moment they decided. Well I don't think it works that way. There are guys who do it for fun and guys who do it for real. A guy like you is the real thing. In your world there was never thought of an alternative. But I seriously believe there are people who come to the Internet believing they can become serious musicians anytime they please, but chose not to because of their self described real lives, while somehow justifying that as reasons for why they don't do certain things. Then amazingly, they demand you play along with that skewered reasoning.

Look, God bless everybody who loves to play. But these fantasy camp one on ones got old a long time ago.

Does that mean a less serious player can't have a serious pov?

Of course not.

But when you get in front of thousands of people worldwide preaching voodoo and fairy dust, it really isn't proper to make snitty remarks about something you're not even prepared to discuss and not think you will not be downsized accordingly. Then when that happens don't brood and stamp around because you didn't get your way. You would never have such an opportunity in real life, so why would you expect a break here?
__________________
I endorse Zildjian sticks because I like them.
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:58 PM
droveto's Avatar
droveto droveto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 214
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
Exactly Stan.

But time and time again, you will still have a defensive and belligerent hobby player try to stand a guy like you down as if his pov is even remotely equal to yours. I've also been seeing this in the tiny amount of time that I've been involved. My theory is there are a lot of guys who chose another direction in their lives always believing they could be a guy like you the moment they decided. Well I don't think it works that way. There are guys who do it for fun and guys who do it for real. A guy like you is the real thing. In your world there was never thought of an alternative. But I seriously believe there are people who come to the Internet believing they can become serious musicians anytime they please, but chose not to because of their self described real lives, while somehow justifying that as reasons for why they don't do certain things. Then amazingly, they demand you play along with that skewered reasoning.

Look, God bless everybody who loves to play. But these fantasy camp one on ones got old a long time ago.

Does that mean a less serious player can't have a serious pov?

Of course not.

But when you get in front of thousands of people worldwide preaching voodoo and fairy dust, it really isn't proper to make snitty remarks about something you're not even prepared to discuss and not think you will not be downsized accordingly. Then when that happens don't brood and stamp around because you didn't get your way. You would never have such an opportunity in real life, so why would you expect a break here?
Actually I find that the majority of people act like this in real life too. You've probably been very lucky to have been surrounded by realistic and critical people in your life. Myself, and many other spoiled kids were brought up being told that they can achieve anything they believe. Unfortunately many go through their whole lives thinking this is true and never learning for themselves that their exceedingly supportive group of people around them growing up has turned them into all believing and no doing.

Having moved around a lot myself and meeting many different people and musicians, I've found that the majority of musicians may not say the things we're both finding silly here in this thread, but you can tell by the way they act and approach their craft, and life, that they already think that way. The story is always in the actions.

You're probably a little lucky to have grown up in a proper critical environment and thus you've surrounded yourself with those types of people and have been cruising ever since. If you figured it all out on your own, then even more power to you.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 09-26-2010, 12:14 AM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
Exactly Stan.

But time and time again, you will still have a defensive and belligerent hobby player try to stand a guy like you down as if his pov is even remotely equal to yours. I've also been seeing this in the tiny amount of time that I've been involved. My theory is there are a lot of guys who chose another direction in their lives always believing they could be a guy like you the moment they decided. Well I don't think it works that way. There are guys who do it for fun and guys who do it for real. A guy like you is the real thing. In your world there was never thought of an alternative. But I seriously believe there are people who come to the Internet believing they can become serious musicians anytime they please, but chose not to because of their self described real lives, while somehow justifying that as reasons for why they don't do certain things. Then amazingly, they demand you play along with that skewered reasoning.

Look, God bless everybody who loves to play. But these fantasy camp one on ones got old a long time ago.

Does that mean a less serious player can't have a serious pov?

Of course not.

But when you get in front of thousands of people worldwide preaching voodoo and fairy dust, it really isn't proper to make snitty remarks about something you're not even prepared to discuss and not think you will not be downsized accordingly. Then when that happens don't brood and stamp around because you didn't get your way. You would never have such an opportunity in real life, so why would you expect a break here?
I really think you're missing the point, you say guys like me are not serious musicians. Who gives you the right to determine that? The same people who gave you an award for "the worlds fastest drummer"? Just because I didn't move to L.A. or make a world tour, I'm every bit as serious about playing the drums as anyone on here. Yes, I'm self taught and yes I should had learned more, but don't belittle me or any other drummer here who does not make a living at it as less of a musician than you. I realized a long time ago that only a handful of drummers actually live the dream and of those half are untrained. I've seen tons of drummers who have won awards and could play circles around most of us who are still playing in smokey bars for peanuts. That makes no difference to me, I don't judge a drummer on how much stardom they recieve, rather the passion they have and love for the instrument they possess.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 09-26-2010, 12:41 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 9,971
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Threads like this suggest to me that you don't have to talk about politics to talk about politics.

I find little joy in either the Never Question Your Betters Party or the Damn It I'll Do What I Wanna Do Party. Somewhere in the vast gulf between those two poles lies sanity. If anyone happens to find that happy place by all means let me know because I think it would be a good place to be.

Until then, I'll stick with the It's a Funny Old World Party and try to get my right foot working better at low volume without aggravating my knee problems.
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 09-26-2010, 12:50 AM
Average Average is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 475
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
To further the point I'm trying to make please check out this guy. His name is Louis Cato and I've mentioned him before. Louis is in possession of one of the best natural funk grooves in the music business today. He is a good friend and is currently laying down tracks for my new show. Here he is with Marcus Miller playing Freddie Hubbard's Mr. Clean.
Actually, Mr. Clean is the perfect example of a song you need to know how to read music for, if you haven't heard the recording. There is a drum tacet towards then end of the song and if you miss it, people tend to get a little peeved. That song occasionally makes it into the setlist when we play with the horn section.

Here is a questions to non-readers: what do you do if there ISN'T a recording of the song you are supposed to play? How about if there is a recording but you show up to a rehearsal and you don't have access to a recording when the band leader hands you a piece of music?
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 09-26-2010, 12:57 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,356
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average View Post
Here is a questions to non-readers: what do you do if there ISN'T a recording of the song you are supposed to play? How about if there is a recording but you show up to a rehearsal and you don't have access to a recording when the band leader hands you a piece of music?
Personally, it's never happened. In cover bands, we chose our set lists and spent time learning them. I've always had time to go and 'parrott'.

If no recording existed then it was because I was playing in original bands, so theoretically, no charts existed either.......nor did I want them to. I wanted to create the parts.

However, that only answers you from my experience. As a general question, you highlight a good point.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 09-26-2010, 01:15 AM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,063
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
Just because I didn't move to L.A. or make a world tour, I'm every bit as serious about playing the drums as anyone on here. Yes, I'm self taught and yes I should had learned more, but don't belittle me or any other drummer here who does not make a living at it as less of a musician than you. I realized a long time ago that only a handful of drummers actually live the dream and of those half are untrained. I've seen tons of drummers who have won awards and could play circles around most of us who are still playing in smokey bars for peanuts. That makes no difference to me, I don't judge a drummer on how much stardom they recieve, rather the passion they have and love for the instrument they possess.
I agree with you. There's no question that Muddy Waters, who didn't know anything about theory or reading, was dead serious about his music. One of my favorite drummers, Al Foster, cannot read music. Roy Haynes never learned the rudiments, not one.

When I started you had to read music, so I taught myself to read music because I had no choice. These days the whole nightclub/show apparatus is gone so there's not as much pressure put on a young player to learn to read. These days people can make the choice to further their musical education or not. Such a choice didn't exist for guys my age when we started out.

Try to understand that in my opinion Muddy Waters or Al Foster or Roy Haynes are not models of how to get your foot in the door of the music business. I always think of the young players here who intend to go into music as a career, and putting forward the concept that one doesn't need to learn to read music because it isn't necessary has to be looked upon as being really lousy advice. Telling anyone not to learn anything because it isn't necessary, that doesn't sit well with me.
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 03:39 AM
mattsmith
This message has been deleted by mattsmith.
  #147  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:30 AM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
Hey wy yung. That was a great post you just deleted. You should have kept it up. It beautifully capsulized the feelings of many here.
BTW, Buddy did say that about classical musicians not being creative, when I find it I will post it here.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:34 AM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,063
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
BTW, Buddy did say that about classical musicians not being creative, when I find it I will post it here.
Buddy Rich made quite a lot of ignorant statements, ask anyone who ever played with him.
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:37 AM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

BR -I've thought about It. It's interesting, but simple. To have everything written for you ... It's not really creating. That's why I think symphony drummers are so limited. They 're limited to exactly what was played a hundred years before them by a thousand other drummers. And, you know, I think the original recording of Ravel's Bolero, probably whoever played percussion on that, will never have It played better than that. So, what do they do? They're simply following what was laid down in front and they play the same thing. So, there's no great challenge In being a classical drummer.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:39 AM
Stickit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

To be fair....

MD - I believe there's a music school in the East where the professors prefer that their students do not know how to read music. Their belief is that students can learn more by playing by ear. What do you think about that?

BR - That's right. But, I think it's very important that you read. I think you should read in order to know what the chart is all about. But, I don't think any arranger should ever write a drum part for a drummer because if a drummer can't create his own Interpretation of the chart and he plays everything that's written, he becomes mechanical; he has no freedom.
Reply With Quote
  #151  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:46 AM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,063
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
I don't think any arranger should ever write a drum part for a drummer because if a drummer can't create his own Interpretation of the chart and he plays everything that's written, he becomes mechanical; he has no freedom.
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:12 AM
Steamer's Avatar
Steamer Steamer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,755
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Here's the deal from my experience as a professional for what it is worth.......

I just came in with a sizeable check in my hand from finishing a concert with a larger ensemble holding down one of the percussion chairs for the outdoor concert in front of a large crowd. Did I have lots of fun and creative freedom within the music? oh yes indeed!...... Did I have to read difficult as stink multiple parts/instruments in odd meters with tempos changes and multiple important cues from the conductor well both reading and watching him carefully? yes indeed......

Would I have got the initial call for my services for the 3 paid rehearsels and tonights show if I couldn't read a note of music or knew how to follow a chart etc... NO ..NO and NO.....

This is the REAL world for working pros in many situations folks who freelance amongst other things to pay the bills. To discredit or "talk down" the importance of reading and the interpretive experience based skills that comes with that skill is a sad joke. The real sad part of this joke being on those sitting at home not working for believing the same old BS story as old as time about I can do it based on my truly amazing natural talent of picking things out of thin air the first time through a complicated tune or arrangement. Only one Buddy Rich folks, as for the rest of we deal with things as they are in the real world of pro playing situations.

Forget it kids don't buy this crock of s.... and those trying to convince you of this so called "truth". What works for them {if indeed true, being the internet} does NOT apply to all in the real world from my many years of experience on the subject as well as my experience with many others I also know in this business.

Thanks for reading.....
__________________
Stan

ISTANBUL AGOP CYMBALS
PEACE DRUMS

www.myspace.com/setstan
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:17 AM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,413
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

....

Steely Dan, one of the most creative and original bands of their time didn't allow a even quarter note of original creativity or 'interpretation of the charts' by any of the musicians. Drummers were'nt allowed to even open their hi- hats a touch, where it wasn't specified.

PS- some of the greatest musicians played on their records. Lets add that up.


PPS- ( Jay.. looking good! )
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:21 AM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,063
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
....
PPS- ( Jay.. looking good! )
Well thank you, aydee, but I think my teeth look just terrible in that picture...
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:23 AM
Swiss Matthias's Avatar
Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 3,185
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit
I don't think any arranger should ever write a drum part for a drummer because if a drummer can't create his own Interpretation of the chart and he plays everything that's written, he becomes mechanical; he has no freedom.
???!!!
I believe you couldn't be more wrong, because not matter how a drummer can get to his part - whether by a written drumpart, an idea from his head, a groove in a recording of the tune in question, an improvised one - he either is able to make it sound good, or he sounds stiff.
Plus, a musician will never have 100% freedom, he must take decisions all the time, which take away the freedom at this point with every note, whether improvised, learned by memory or read from a sheet music.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:32 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 9,971
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
That's why I think symphony drummers are so limited. They 're limited to exactly what was played a hundred years before them by a thousand other drummers.
Nooo, I'm limited - good classical drummers are fab. The bigger the band, the less freedom you have. If people are going off and doing their own thing unscripted in an orchestra the music would get messy, but when everyone plays their part just right the combination of many instruments is magnificent.

I love jamming but I also have zero issues with playing rote parts if it means the music sounds and feels great. You still have to execute with the right feel in the moment. We are not machines - the nuances will always be a tiny bit different every time.
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 09-26-2010, 11:33 AM
JPW JPW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 818
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

What I really would like to have at this point of this discussion is the list of those drummers on the DW's list who can't read a single note. And a list of those who CAN read and are not being at all creative. I'm sure both lists will be quite small but maybe I _could_ be surprised. But I have a feeling we are just arguing with generalizations and a view point that is tainted by personal experiences on a local level.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 09-26-2010, 11:50 AM
wy yung
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Notation, what is it and why does it exist?

In the Middle ages Christian monks began devising a method of recording musical notes. This was done in an effort to share and preserve music. Until then music had been successively lost over tine. Notation is a tool, a device.

In ancient times the Greeks and Romans used a form of notation and some survives. But the details have been lost.

So what we have today is a musical tool/device available to musicians. In the west notation is used extensively. Recording sessionsn gigs, rehearsals...in all these places notation can be found.

Why is this so? Simply put, because it works and saves time and makes life easier for those involved.

I and others who can read often have trouble with those who have ideas about reading that are at odds with our own experience. We know the benefits. And the word "know" here is absolutely crucial.

On the other side are musicians who cannot read. These people have no experience of the benefits of reading. That needs repeating. These people have no experience of the benefits of reading.

So where does the arrogance of an opinion based in ignorance derive? I do not know. How can someone comment on a subject of which they have no experience?

And yet on forums it happens all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 09-26-2010, 01:12 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,329
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
BR -I've thought about It. It's interesting, but simple. To have everything written for you ... It's not really creating. That's why I think symphony drummers are so limited. They 're limited to exactly what was played a hundred years before them by a thousand other drummers. And, you know, I think the original recording of Ravel's Bolero, probably whoever played percussion on that, will never have It played better than that. So, what do they do? They're simply following what was laid down in front and they play the same thing. So, there's no great challenge In being a classical drummer.
Sometimes I read things around here that make me do a double-take and wonder whether the person is being serious or facetious. I'm going to assume you are being serious and that - based on this post - you have very little experience interpreting charts in symphonic or other environments. That's alright, it's not for everyone. But I think you may have the wrong idea. I'm not going to get into questions about who is more "serious", because I don't think they're answerable, ultimately. But I can say something about my experience with chart reading and interpretation.

On a general level, there is plenty of room for interpretation in classical music and musical theatre. In many cases the composers are dead, in fact, so it's left to conductors and musicians to try to milk the music out of what's on the page. There are dozens of recordings of Bolero and no two sound precisely the same. There are dozens of versions of Beethoven's symphonies, but there are incredible variations in tempo, in rhythmic interpretation, dynamics, articulations, tuning, etc. In a musical theatre context, this happens even more than in symphonies and the composers are often still alive and sometimes even involved with the production! Listen to a Broadway version of a show and compare it to a West End version of a show and you'll often here a marked difference. Same charts.

Looking at percussionists in particular: no two drummers/timpanists/snare drummers sound exactly alike. Some of it is in their technique and hands, but a greater amount of it is in their musical conception. For example, Vic Firth held the Boston Symphony timpani gig for so long not because he could regurgitate timpani parts better than anyone else, but because he could interpret them in a unique and highly musical way. Snare drum is no different. Two players can play the same part and make it sound completely different based on how they interpret what's in front of them. I've played etudes along with a teacher of mine, and despite us both playing all the notes on the page "right" it doesn't sound the same. He's better at the orchestral stuff. That's his bag. In musical theatre it's no different. Having heard others play the same shows I've played, I can tell you that none of us interpret the charts in exactly the same way.

Here are some of the creative questions a reading percussionist might ask:

General Interpretation: Should I play all of this? What's the orchestra playing/what's going on on stage, and does my part work with that? Parts are omitted for all sorts of reasons.

Sound: should I use a dark sounding deep wood drum, or a bright shallow metal one? Low tuning, or high tuning? Tight snares, or loose? Which sticks should I use? What cymbals should I use - big ones, little ones, dark ones, bright ones? Tambourine with a head and brass jingles, or no head and tin jingles? (I'm not kidding) Small brass mallets on the glock, or hard plastic? Sticks or yarn mallets for that cymbal roll?

Rhythm and other inkish things: An orchestral snare drummer might ask: should I interpret rolls as closed or open? Shall I play drags or ruffs for grace notes? Shall I interpret a dotted-eighth/sixteenth rhythm strictly or closer to triplets, or as a double-dotted-eighth/32nd (some of this would be up to the conductor, too) Do I finish a roll with a button or just come off it cleanly? Shall I use a straight alternate sticking or something else? What about dynamics? The distance between p and f can be very big or very small. Do you play your crescendos as a steady climb up, or do you stay low and burst out of nowhere at the end? In musical theatre, we ask all these questions and then some: i.e. shall I add hihat to that section, or play it on the ride cymbal? Shall I use the toms for those shots, or the snare? Etc., etc., etc....

A timpanist would ask similar questions, though the issue of closed rolls wouldn't come up. But, they might decide to play rolls as a rhythmic subdivision (i.e, 16ths) rather than with no determinate subdivision. That's a huge thing and can change the entire feeling of a piece. They'd also decide which mallets to use and where to strike the drums for the right timbre. A good timpanist can give the effect of short and long (staccato/legato) notes without dampening the drums, simply by the way they strike them, and that can make all the difference. Of course, then there is the question of dampening - do you cut off all notes at their written length? Do you allow the timps to ring together? Do you shorten notes to less than their written length for rhythmic effect?

All these things sound simple on their own, but the combination of these creative decisions are what shape the sound of the piece. And they're what separate one percussionist from another and keep some working while others don't.

Last edited by Boomka; 09-26-2010 at 04:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 09-26-2010, 01:31 PM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 9,971
Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Sometimes timpanists wing it too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arqvnp6yUCg

:)

And I can't see this guy being at a loss without a black page in front of him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQHNsT5OQhY
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com