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  #161  
Old 04-27-2010, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

I stand by the opinion that WFD isn't any worse then a lot of Olympic sports, you just need to stop considering it music and start viewing it like sport.
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  #162  
Old 04-30-2010, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

Before it gets too far off the tracks, I'd like to point out that my negative opinion of WFD is not rooted in any technical problem. The truth is, I see nothing of real value in speed for its own sake. Yes, you can get something useful from it, but why not let the music take you there than go for "all speed all the time"?

Remember, this is all a magic trick anyway. I know, Butch Miles said so. Being fast is only one aspect of drumming, and without musicianship, it adds up to squat in the really-real world of music making.

Folks out there want to jam out and shake their butts. Fast only goes so far.
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  #163  
Old 04-30-2010, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

...and Polly - if a man says something and no woman hears him - will he still be wrong??





(sorry)
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  #164  
Old 04-30-2010, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
I stand by the opinion that WFD isn't any worse then a lot of Olympic sports, you just need to stop considering it music and start viewing it like sport.
I get that, you get that, many of us get that, but thousands of drummers out there don't get that, and instead sit behind their computers and scrutinize every other drummer for how fast they are aren't. Like it freakin' matters.
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  #165  
Old 04-30-2010, 05:35 PM
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...and Polly - if a man says something and no woman hears him - will he still be wrong??





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I'll ask my wife. :-P
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  #166  
Old 04-30-2010, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I get that, you get that, many of us get that, but thousands of drummers out there don't get that, and instead sit behind their computers and scrutinize every other drummer for how fast they are aren't. Like it freakin' matters.
It matters if you want to be an athlete NOT a musician, I wish kids would realise that, even WFD themselves call it a new kind of sport.

The thing is, drumming at those speeds doesn't even help you if you want to play tech death as no matter how fast you drum you still need to keep in time if you want it to sound any good, that is a problem a lot of drummers going for those extreme speeds have, they need to clean up their drumming a bit and get it in time.
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  #167  
Old 04-30-2010, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by moqtev View Post
...and Polly - if a man says something and no woman hears him - will he still be wrong??





(sorry)
Yes, of course, mogtey. In your heart of hearts you know that :)

However ... nothing is 100% and jazzin' has come up with the below pearl of a comment, even if he ignored my PM (a stereotypical male response, I might add :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzin'
Man, when I'm lugging my crap around every single night and day to a different place to gig or rehearse I want it all as simple and light as possible. I want a tom to be just a tom with nothing extra on it. A stand to be just a simple, easy, light stand only solid enough to hold up my little cymbal, instead of some 200kg double braced, titanium plated, nuclear pulsed reinforced thing with nine arms on it.
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  #168  
Old 04-30-2010, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

"custom" drum companies who make a 22x22 bass drum .. powder coat the hardware pink .. and paint the shell exorcist vomit green
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  #169  
Old 04-30-2010, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
When spokes came out, I tried to imagine the meeting at Remo when they were conceived. It probably started with, "Holy crap! All our distributors just refused delivery of 50,000 rototoms because they can't sell them! We're dead! Emergency meeting!"
LOL, I remember when they hit the market. I particularly remember a long blonde haired version of Terry Bozio being featured in Modern Drummer, complete with an early crazy-large kit. He had Spokes hi-hatted up, and I'm thinking ya know, you can take this big kit thing a bit too far.
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  #170  
Old 05-01-2010, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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It matters if you want to be an athlete or a musician, I wish kids would realise that, even WFD themselves call it a new kind of sport.

The thing is, drumming at those speeds doesn't even help you if you want to play tech death as no matter how fast you drum you still need to keep in time if you want it to sound any good, that is a problem a lot of drummers going for those extreme speeds have, they need to clean up their drumming a bit and get it in time.
I like watching WFD just because it makes my eyes bug out. But it has nothing to do with music, just like how watching someone break the running speed record has nothing to do with ballet, although they both rely on moving the legs.

I would like WFD to see how fast someone could actually play a real song that was recorded at like 300 bpm or whatever. I mean playing the bass drum, hats, snare, toms, ride, etc. like you would in a normal song, just at superfast speed. Now that would be getting more toward musical relevance. Even though no one listens or dances to music that fast, being able to accurately play that fast would be useful in developing some aspects of musicianship.
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  #171  
Old 05-01-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by mrchattr View Post
Seriously, all of you people complaining about the mounted floor tom, go play one that is mounted well! Again, mine sits on a light-weight stand, and I have no issue with it at all. I rest all sorts of things on it while playing musicals, and it never bounces...
Exactly. Do it properly and you won't have a problem. Now go pick on something like "basswood" shells!
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  #172  
Old 05-01-2010, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
I like watching WFD just because it makes my eyes bug out. But it has nothing to do with music, just like how watching someone break the running speed record has nothing to do with ballet, although they both rely on moving the legs.

I would like WFD to see how fast someone could actually play a real song that was recorded at like 300 bpm or whatever. I mean playing the bass drum, hats, snare, toms, ride, etc. like you would in a normal song, just at superfast speed. Now that would be getting more toward musical relevance. Even though no one listens or dances to music that fast, being able to accurately play that fast would be useful in developing some aspects of musicianship.
I meant to say it has nothing to do with music, it's solely a sport, that's why I gave an example of 300+bpm music that still doesn't completely involve it as time is still a concern.
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  #173  
Old 05-02-2010, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
Before it gets too far off the tracks, I'd like to point out that my negative opinion of WFD is not rooted in any technical problem. The truth is, I see nothing of real value in speed for its own sake. Yes, you can get something useful from it, but why not let the music take you there than go for "all speed all the time"?

Remember, this is all a magic trick anyway. I know, Butch Miles said so. Being fast is only one aspect of drumming, and without musicianship, it adds up to squat in the really-real world of music making.

Folks out there want to jam out and shake their butts. Fast only goes so far.
I don't think it's got anything to do with music though and even the guys here who have done it and won say the same thing. They have developed their technique to a great level, along with their musicianship to the same degree, and when this came along they tried it out and did well. They would have had the same great hands, technique etc with or without the WFD thing and they all play beautifully. It hasn't changed any of those guys for the worse.

It's a separate entity from music altogether. That technique practice many of us do daily? They have simply used that to go in a comp. It's not as if they give up everything they do and just play single strokes all day long and stop playing music and let everthing else by the wayside. Nothing changed for them.

It does add up to squat in the 'real world' of music making because it has nothing to do with music making. It's just a technique thing. They don't try to pretend it has anything to do with it.

Anyway, I agree that WFD isn't so bad. I don't even understand why or how some get so riled up about it. It just is what it is and those that do it can and those that can't should stop thinking it has anything to do with music. It's just rudiments played on a pad. No one thinks they are making music doing it and it doesn't stop anyone from playing music outside it. It's not ruining music or having an impact on anyone playing music or the world music scene. If people that go into WFD come out and play non stop speed outside in the 'real world' of music, then they will get fired in two seconds flat so it makes no difference either way. They either do it and get fired immediately or learn very quickly that you don't play single stroke rolls throughout a whole song on a practice pad with a speed counter next to you.

I have a suggestion for those that really dislike it. Just think of it like this: The more players that go into the WFD, and spend all day, every day doing nothing but single strokes (supposedly anyway, or at least that's what some like to think they do) in an unmusical fashion, it just leaves all the music playing and many more jobs to you! So, in that sense you should encourage everyone you can to do it more because then your non single stroke roll, real world music making drumming will be seen for it is.

Annnnnnyway, I would go along with glowing sticks, 'drumming' shoes too.....because they are different from normal shoes you put on your feet. You put them on your feet and then press the foot pedals with them. Amazing isn't it? Revolutionary! They also are made by special drumming fiber that makes all your playing better. Just like those piano shoes that make your chords sound better.
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  #174  
Old 05-02-2010, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yes, of course, mogtey. In your heart of hearts you know that :)

However ... nothing is 100% and jazzin' has come up with the below pearl of a comment, even if he ignored my PM (a stereotypical male response, I might add :)
lol! No I didn't ignore it. Your inbox is full and nothing can be sent through. I tried to send one after typing a very long exciting reply which I'll never be able to replicate. So, you missed out! hehehe

Typical irrational female response. Not looking at the practical aspects of why.

;)
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  #175  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Agreed. I really think it's dumb to see suspended rack toms mounted to the bass drum. Um, why you doing that exactly?

I think the worst idea in drumming is plywood shells. Plywood has its uses and advantages, like superior strength, workability, low cost and low weight, which is why as a wood composite (not real wood) it is well suited or construction. Plywood was useful in making drums affordable but with modern manufacturing techniques, I think mass-producing affordable stave or solid-shell drums is very possible and it would be neat to see that happen.
I don't think that plywood shells are a bad idea. Plywood shells make drums more durable than solid, steembent or stave. Durable drums are useful.

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  #176  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

What about those metal practice drumsticks?

Were they useful or were they wack?
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  #177  
Old 05-05-2010, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by jazzin' View Post
lol! No I didn't ignore it. Your inbox is full and nothing can be sent through. I tried to send one after typing a very long exciting reply which I'll never be able to replicate. So, you missed out! hehehe

Typical irrational female response. Not looking at the practical aspects of why.

;)
LOL - I remember being surprised that my Inbox was 100% full and I cleared some messages out immediately. Sorry 'bout that, Jazzin. It's a pain to type a message only for it to crash and burn on technical limitations *embarrassed* ... and one can hardly expect a jazz musican to create a message the same way twice :)

Or am I stereotyping? hehehe
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  #178  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
That's not the worst, though. THAT prize goes to World's Fastest Drummer. What a pointless exercise in futility. It should be regarded as an athletic competition that happens to use drums.
That IS what it's regarded as. How can anyone by now have missed that?

Go to this 2008 documentary I made with Boo McAfee and Johnny Rabb and check out my comments beginning at 4:28. I say it word for word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VBUfxbo82s

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yep, the WFD concept is non musical but the abilities required to do it give the participants the technique a lot of freedom to play what they want to play when applied to musical settings.
Yep, I learned how to be a relaxed musician with a lot of endurance because of that comp. I also met a great many of the world class players I now have the good fortune of sharing business and performance associations with because of it.

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
And thanks to WFD, early every drum video on youtube is full of lame comments "oh, so-and-so can play that faster", without any regard to if said drummer was actually trying to play fast or not.
No--- Travis and Joey videos caused that. As for the fascination with playing fast---Buddy Rich 25-50 years before youtube.

Oh and DrumsEatDrums I really like your playing BTW.

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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
I actually know Australia's fastest feet, he admits it's more of an athletic thing, it's like having shred guitar competitions, it's not pointless, it's just not musical but that isn't what it's about, it's about taking a skill (playing a drum) to the extremes to find the best of the best. It's macho if anything but no worse then weight lifting at the olympics.
Correct answer.

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Originally Posted by MisterMixelpix View Post
The WFD didn't cause that, it's a manifestation of the problem. You think without the contest people wouldn't still be linking to Inferno/Hoglan/Kollias/Marco videos to compete over speed?
Correct answer.

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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
I stand by the opinion that WFD isn't any worse then a lot of Olympic sports, you just need to stop considering it music and start viewing it like sport.
Correct answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I get that, you get that, many of us get that, but thousands of drummers out there don't get that, and instead sit behind their computers and scrutinize every other drummer for how fast they are aren't. Like it freakin' matters.
Come on man, do you really believe that? Do you really believe that my 2-5 year old videos are bringing the computer enhanced drumming world to its knees at the expense of someone's live show or a musicianship issue that when pressed the same complainer can rarely explain to anyone's satisfaction?

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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
The thing is, drumming at those speeds doesn't even help you if you want to play tech death as no matter how fast you drum you still need to keep in time if you want it to sound any good, that is a problem a lot of drummers going for those extreme speeds have, they need to clean up their drumming a bit and get it in time.
Agreed, a lot of the guys in those comps suck on all levels. But that's also why they never win. You can't play those speeds with bad technique. And again, it's not about playing at those speeds, it's about the endurance attained by the relaxation required to do it well. We have a callus /blisters thread that delves into this very issue.

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
I like watching WFD just because it makes my eyes bug out. But it has nothing to do with music, just like how watching someone break the running speed record has nothing to do with ballet, although they both rely on moving the legs.

I would like WFD to see how fast someone could actually play a real song that was recorded at like 300 bpm or whatever. I mean playing the bass drum, hats, snare, toms, ride, etc. like you would in a normal song, just at superfast speed. Now that would be getting more toward musical relevance. Even though no one listens or dances to music that fast, being able to accurately play that fast would be useful in developing some aspects of musicianship.
First paragraph, you're absolutely right. That's all it was supposed to be. It was only part of the practice regimen.

Second paragraph, yes that would be cool, but the only intention of those WFD comps was to see how fast you could play. Why should that comp have to assume any musicianship responsibilities for any reason? I mean when Usain Bolt runs a record breaking 100 meters he doesn't get extra style points for grace. But yeah I do understand the coming up with new techniques just to win speed drum comps, and yeah that's garbage. With that said, a lot of us refused to do that, saying that we would only compete the same way we would perform in a musical setting. That's why when you see Tom Grosset or my stuff, we played with sticks high, just like real life.

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Originally Posted by mrchattr View Post
...also to say that something like that, or WFD is one of the WORST ideas in drumming, compared to Drumming Shoes or light-up sticks that break the first time you use them is a bit of a joke...
Correct answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
Before it gets too far off the tracks, I'd like to point out that my negative opinion of WFD is not rooted in any technical problem. The truth is, I see nothing of real value in speed for its own sake. Yes, you can get something useful from it, but why not let the music take you there than go for "all speed all the time"?

Remember, this is all a magic trick anyway. I know, Butch Miles said so. Being fast is only one aspect of drumming, and without musicianship, it adds up to squat in the really-real world of music making.

Folks out there want to jam out and shake their butts. Fast only goes so far.
This comment is an old wive's tale disproved again and again on this forum over the years.

OK you say this...Yes, you can get something useful from it, but why not let the music take you there than go for "all speed all the time"?
Who said speed all the time?

Name one guy who was ever any good at this say speed all the time and not of course agree with what Butch Miles and many others say.

Mangini?
Rabb?
Verdi?
Grosset?
Me?

Right fast only goes so far/ totally agree man.

As for me, I like careful practice to take me to where the music is actually located, by gaining the necessary technical proficiency to embrace the higher forms. Jumping unprepared on a musicianship train only throws you on a treadmill. Those comps were an award ceremony for a practice exercise that was extremely beneficial from all musical vantage points. Sorry but it just was.

What's more, 2 years after my last run--- not one thing claimed by the naysayers came true. I actually picked up work of all musical genres, and most of it has absolutely nothing to do with speed. Ironically I'm going to be doing the Euro MTV Awards with a pop chillout band. Imagine that?

Moreover, the whole thing never produced an army of crazed misguided kids. In fact every single high end young competitor is doing well in high end musical settings and their careers continue to grow.

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Originally Posted by jazzin' View Post
I don't think it's got anything to do with music though and even the guys here who have done it and won say the same thing. They have developed their technique to a great level, along with their musicianship to the same degree, and when this came along they tried it out and did well. They would have had the same great hands, technique etc with or without the WFD thing and they all play beautifully. It hasn't changed any of those guys for the worse.

It's a separate entity from music altogether. That technique practice many of us do daily? They have simply used that to go in a comp. It's not as if they give up everything they do and just play single strokes all day long and stop playing music and let everthing else by the wayside. Nothing changed for them.

It does add up to squat in the 'real world' of music making because it has nothing to do with music making. It's just a technique thing. They don't try to pretend it has anything to do with it.

Anyway, I agree that WFD isn't so bad. I don't even understand why or how some get so riled up about it. It just is what it is and those that do it can and those that can't should stop thinking it has anything to do with music. It's just rudiments played on a pad. No one thinks they are making music doing it and it doesn't stop anyone from playing music outside it. It's not ruining music or having an impact on anyone playing music or the world music scene. If people that go into WFD come out and play non stop speed outside in the 'real world' of music, then they will get fired in two seconds flat so it makes no difference either way. They either do it and get fired immediately or learn very quickly that you don't play single stroke rolls throughout a whole song on a practice pad with a speed counter next to you.

I have a suggestion for those that really dislike it. Just think of it like this: The more players that go into the WFD, and spend all day, every day doing nothing but single strokes (supposedly anyway, or at least that's what some like to think they do) in an unmusical fashion, it just leaves all the music playing and many more jobs to you! So, in that sense you should encourage everyone you can to do it more because then your non single stroke roll, real world music making drumming will be seen for it is.
This is the post of the thread and wraps the whole thing up in a nice little bow.

Might be time to put this one to rest guys. I remain amazed that 2 years after the last scheduled WFD World Championship that people are still all ragged out about this, especially in pushing along the same disproved issues again and again as if it were still five years ago. To me it just looks like all that indignation was at best misplaced. We all play better, we have more gigs with better musicians---not less, understand the business better and became more understanding of the other drumming subcultures via numerous debates over the years in public and on drumming forums.

You just can't go back in time and pretend the contrary outcome never happened.
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  #179  
Old 05-07-2010, 01:07 PM
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Might be time to put this one to rest guys. I remain amazed that 2 years after the last scheduled WFD World Championship that people are still all ragged out about this, especially in pushing along the same disproved issues again and again as if it were still five years ago. To me it just looks like all that indignation was at best misplaced. We all play better, we have more gigs with better musicians---not less, understand the business better and became more understanding of the other drumming subcultures via numerous debates over the years in public and on drumming forums.
BTW, why haven't there been any more championships?
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  #180  
Old 05-07-2010, 02:16 PM
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Yep, I agree with that! I cannot stand those stupid things. I'm sure there are a lot of people that like all the stuff with no bits on it and want everything on it's own little stand but I can't believe those crazies! Man, when I'm lugging my crap around every single night and day to a different place to gig or rehearse I want it all as simple and light as possible. I want a tom to be just a tom with nothing extra on it. A stand to be just a simple, easy, light stand only solid enough to hold up my little cymbal, instead of some 200kg double braced, titanium plated, nuclear pulsed reinforced thing with nine arms on it.

... So, my beef is hardware. All the new heavy-duty rubbish that is included on drums now. You don't need double braced boom stands with weights on the end! Man, I have two tiny little Dixon stands that I got for about $40 (aus) each and they have lasted forever now without ever even moving slightly, tipping over or whatever. If I had to carry around a massive set of drums with huge heavy duty hardware bits and special tom mounts and suspending floor tom tings and all the rest, I would just give up. If I had to carry a bigger set than I do I would want it all lighter than even I have mine. But, I'm weird like that maybe.

I just can't wait to get rid of my Gibraltor bass pedal. It has this massive plate on the bottom, and all these little knobs and bits all over it, which is utterly pointless and weighs about nineteen tonnes. It's only a bass drum pedal! It doesn't need to knock down a building.

I wanna be out of the car, into the place with all my gear in no more two trips and set up within five minutes. Any longer is too long and any more trips is too many. I have a funny feeling I'm not nearly as obsessive about my stuff as most probably are. This is not a bad thing and not meant in a bad way at all. I just find myself bemused when people talk about marks where the bass drum pedal goes....I had never even thought about it until it was mentioned here. But then, I don't really care what it looks like or anything. As long as it's light and easy to take around and sounds great, it's all good.
I would just like to quote this post so it can be read again ... "some 200kg double braced, titanium plated, nuclear pulsed reinforced thing with nine arms on it" ROFL

Some people dis Dixon stands. When I was assembling my kit I asked for the lightest stands in the shop. The guy kept showing me these big things I kept saying "is there anything lighter?". Finally he delved into the dark cobweb-laded recesses to pull out these little Dixons that cost next to nothing. For joy for joy! When I saw the brand I had a brief twinge because I remembered how inadequate they were in a rock setting, but they're perfect for laid back drummers who hate lugging heavy crap around.

BTW, I find it hard to complain about WFD when I hear Johnny Rabb making those e-kits he promotes sound like a million dollars. I wonder how many kids have bought those kits after seeing his promotional vids and then wonder why the drums don't sound anything like they did in the video? :)
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:48 PM
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  #181  
Old 05-09-2010, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I would just like to quote this post so it can be read again ... "some 200kg double braced, titanium plated, nuclear pulsed reinforced thing with nine arms on it" ROFL

Some people dis Dixon stands. When I was assembling my kit I asked for the lightest stands in the shop. The guy kept showing me these big things I kept saying "is there anything lighter?". Finally he delved into the dark cobweb-laded recesses to pull out these little Dixons that cost next to nothing. For joy for joy! When I saw the brand I had a brief twinge because I remembered how inadequate they were in a rock setting, but they're perfect for laid back drummers who hate lugging heavy crap around.
heheee

That's exactly what happened to me! I went into a store and asked for the lightest simplest stand they had, and even though they had those crappy little Dixon's, they didn't show me those and actually tried to refuse to sell me them. He kept saying "No, these won't do. You need something cooler, and bigger and more retro if you're going for the little straight stand look" and I had to keep explaining that I wasn't going for a 'look' but he wouldn't believe me.

He took me over to these new DW stands that were all retro and hip and looked like the old stands from the 60's etc, and the guy says "Hey man, if you're looking for that hip retro look like Ringo, you can't go past these babies. All the chicks will dig you, and as long as you buy that retro drum kit with a 26" bass drum, you'll get all the gigs in town with these stands" after which I said "Hmm, I was actually just looking for the lightest, cheapest straight stand. I wasn't really after the chick magnet, retro Ringo, gig getting stands that cost $200 nor the 26" bass drum which defeats the purpose of my getting the lightest stuff I can find. What about that little stand over there hiding up the very back tucked away behind everything else?" at which the guy just shook his head and walked away obviously thinking "What's he even into music for if he doesn't want those chick magnet, retro Ringo, gig getting stands along with the 26" bass drum in cool swirly psychedelic patterns? That's not the look"
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

Jazzin, there's another way to look at mounted FT's. When I had my previous two kits the FT was hung off the right crash cymbal stand. The top "shell" tom was mounted off the left side cymbal stand. When I had lighter rides, I even had that on a boom off the right side stand. Since I don't typically fold up the tops of my stands, I was up and running in no time. And everything was in the exact same place. I only had to position two things on the floor and 4-5 things fell into place. I even had cowbell brackets and all set up so all I had to do was open up the stand base, set it on the floor and hang everything on it. Couldn't be quicker. In or out.
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  #183  
Old 05-09-2010, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by jazzin' View Post
... 'drumming' shoes too.....because they are different from normal shoes you put on your feet. You put them on your feet and then press the foot pedals with them. Amazing isn't it? Revolutionary! They also are made by special drumming fiber that makes all your playing better. Just like those piano shoes that make your chords sound better.
Quite a few people spend a considerable amount of time searching for the perfect shoe. Drumming shoes are very affordable and suit the needs of most of those people as far as I have seen. They make sense as much as drumming gloves and stick tape - most drummers don't need them, but they make life easer for those who do.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by jazzin' View Post
heheee

That's exactly what happened to me! I went into a store and asked for the lightest simplest stand they had, and even though they had those crappy little Dixon's, they didn't show me those and actually tried to refuse to sell me them. He kept saying "No, these won't do. You need something cooler, and bigger and more retro if you're going for the little straight stand look" and I had to keep explaining that I wasn't going for a 'look' but he wouldn't believe me.

He took me over to these new DW stands that were all retro and hip and looked like the old stands from the 60's etc, and the guy says "Hey man, if you're looking for that hip retro look like Ringo, you can't go past these babies. All the chicks will dig you, and as long as you buy that retro drum kit with a 26" bass drum, you'll get all the gigs in town with these stands" after which I said "Hmm, I was actually just looking for the lightest, cheapest straight stand. I wasn't really after the chick magnet, retro Ringo, gig getting stands that cost $200 nor the 26" bass drum which defeats the purpose of my getting the lightest stuff I can find. What about that little stand over there hiding up the very back tucked away behind everything else?" at which the guy just shook his head and walked away obviously thinking "What's he even into music for if he doesn't want those chick magnet, retro Ringo, gig getting stands along with the 26" bass drum in cool swirly psychedelic patterns? That's not the look"
Fair dinks? They were trying to flog you pretend-retro stands? Ha! I wonder if they're on commission and our cheapo Dixons aren't too lucrative?

All power to Dixons, I say. Have to admit that the kick pedal is crap, though - but it was cheap and light and fortunately my kick playing is so fundamental and understated that it's only a minor inconvenience :)
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  #185  
Old 05-30-2010, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by JPW View Post
BTW, why haven't there been any more championships?
Just saw this. Apparently Boo has been very successful marketing and selling his WFD video arcade game, and that shouldn't surprise. He can actually make money doing this. He never made any money off the competitions and was always getting crap from the NAMM people who thought he was a distraction, when all it did was make for a fun side activity and create an incredible amount of interest. Now I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that NAMM wishes they had him back. Some of the promotional stuff they came up with after Boo left just hasn't panned out like they thought it would.

Boo's longtime WFD co owner Craig Allen also pulled out when his new full time job truly became full time in every way. I think it was just too much work for 1 guy to do. Of course no one was surprised when the usual crowd tried to claim that world championships ended due to lack of interest when nothing was further from the truth. When I walked away exactly 2 years ago the whole thing was as popular as ever, and the videos have remained viral on Youtube.

I know I get a lot of junk from some people for saying this, but I've always thought that the biggest end of the criticism came from rival comps/ especially one from a large music chain/ and a lot of guys angry that their sell didn't sell as much as this sell. It was such a simple idea as to be maddening, alongside how those without this one singular skill felt left out and simply lashed out under the guise of unrelated musicianship principles that always seemed to want to divert attention over to what the critics themselves were doing at the time. During my very little time in the actual music profession, I've noticed almost every time that most of the big fights are over one group supposedly getting a marketing leg up over another group.

Although I'm finished with that experience I wish any future event the very best. I think it would also be cool to see Tom Grossett get to finally beat Mangini's overall world record on a big stage, and be able to use that to market whatever plans he has for the future. He's worked really hard and deserves it.
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  #186  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Ainulindale View Post
how many millions are spent trying to create a better tom mount, but the poor bass drum - clamp a pedal on the wood hoop and drop it on the floor - we got to the moon, cant we think of a better way to attach the pedal to a bass drum???
All of the crazy tom mounts always just seemed like a marketing gimmick to me anyway. I've heard it explained that the toms sound better because the shells have not had holes drilled in them for the mounting bracket.

That should make you laugh.

How many friggin' holes are drilled in the shell for the lugs? Drilling 24-32 holes in the shell is okay, but a couple more for the mounting bracket is going to make a big difference in the sound? And then I've seen toms with fancy thingamabob mounting systems included with kits that have good old three-leg floor toms. That's holes for three mounting brackets drilled into the floor tom, but that sounds okay whereas the rack toms would not? And then the bass drums have even more holes in them, plus holes for the spurs, plus often a big hole for the tom stand.

I don't know, maybe some folks can hear a difference in the sound of a tom on some fancy suspension system rather than an old-fashioned mounting bracket, but I sure can't.

Last edited by BrewBillfold; 07-30-2010 at 08:15 PM.
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  #187  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
OOOH, cool thread. Off the top of my head- suspended floor toms. What the hell are those about!? I don't need 'em to ring that long, they bounce all over the place, I can't rest my sticks on them, and I need to attach them to a 70 pound cymbal stand so it doesn't tip over! Hate 'em, hate 'em, hate 'em.
I always hated those, too, especially since I prefer 16" and 18" floor toms. I can't help thinking, "Look, that guy's pretending that a 14" rack tom is a floor tom!" . . . which is odd, because I'm usually the complete opposite of a purist, but, well, at least I'd never buy a kit that only had a small suspended "floor" tom. When those sets first started appearing in the 80s I was tempted to use 14", 16" and 18" floor toms, each set up on three legs, as rack toms, and find a 20" floor tom to complete the set. Heck, that still sounds like a fun idea to me.

Last edited by BrewBillfold; 07-30-2010 at 08:13 PM.
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  #188  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Pre-dating the Remo Muffle, there was a product called "dead rings" or something like that. Billy Cobham actually endorsed them for a brief moment. There foam rings that had a sticky surface and you glued them to the underside of your drum heads to get a very dead 70's sound.
At one point in the 70s, I'd say that at least 2/3, maybe 3/4 of the drummers I knew had those or something equivalent. I was too cheap to buy them for my kit--and that was more of a problem because I was playing a 11 piece kit at the time, excluding the snare. My dad had a friend who could get large sheets of foam cheaply, so I bought two sheets and cut them so that they wrapped around the entire inside surface of the toms and bass drums, lol.

I went into the studio like that a couple times, too, and the producer and engineers liked the sound.
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  #189  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Chonson View Post
Power toms, concert toms, dead bass drums, open bass drums, piccolo snares, 12" snares, etc - that stuff to me is a constant cycling of what's in and out of fashion. Concert toms were almost the most un-hip thing imaginable in the early-mid 90s but now I'm seeing them more frequently. I think this stuff is just a constant cycle of rediscovery every 20-30 years.
It's the same idea as fashion in general. It's pushed by the manufacturers. They need you to keep buying stuff, so they're hoping that if they can make your gear from 7-10 years ago unfashionable, you'll cave in to peer pressure and lay out some more dough to be in style.

Over time, It's also easier to recycle some old ideas rather than coming up with new ones--and nostalgia after awhile helps drive that, too, so in 25-30 years, say, the same ideas can come around again, because by the time, most folks have long since parted with that gear and will need to buy it again.

Last edited by BrewBillfold; 07-30-2010 at 08:12 PM.
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  #190  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Well things are only as limiting as you make them. I use double bass in a lot of music that isn't necessarily rock or metal.
Me, too. It seems like maybe some folks can only conceive of doing endless 16ths, 32nds, etc. on them. You can use two sticks on your snare drum in any kind of music--you can use two bass drums, or two beaters on one for any kind of music, too. Practicing rudiments on double bass is one good way to get ideas for other kinds of things you can do . . . heck, even just the ability to do flams on the bass drum is nice.
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Stock no name cymbals that usually come with a budget kit are a travesty I think you'd be better off hitting a dust bin lid personally.
I like a kit with a very wide variety of sounds. I like having the dustbin lid sound available, and those cymbals have the advantage of having holes already drilled in them. ;-)
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  #191  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yup. Good find, Kev. I thought those things were super cool when they first came out lol. I don't mind a bit of ugliness if it's interesting - like bulldogs, for example :) The problem was that you needed much bigger cases than usual for them.

Funny that people here are more offended by messed up inventions to be played in real time than the gadgets that are squeezing us out.
I almost picked up a used North set two weeks ago . . . the reason it was only "almost" was because I realized that I'd have to get custom cases made for them that would cost far more than the drums (although Staccato cases might work), and it would probably also be next to impossible for find parts if I would need to replace a lug or something.

I don't at all mind concert toms. I had a Ludwig vistalite kit with concert toms that I wish I would have never sold. It was probably my favorite sounding kit out of everything I've had so far. At some point in the future, I'm going to buy another vistalite kit.
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  #192  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

To address the question directly. From my parents perspective it was the idea of letting me buy a drum kit when I was 14!
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  #193  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by Spreggy View Post
This has to rack right up there:



I believe the product is called the Gibraltar Paperweight.
I want one of those with a Duallist triple kick pedal.
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  #194  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by thatguykalem View Post
Why do you think this is a bad idea? It made learning how to play songs free and highly accessible. Who cares if it's not sheet? I can read both sheet and tab, and learn by ear, too. Learning tabs might not make you better at learning drumming by ear, or by sheet, but it doesn't make you worse.
I don't know if I've ever seen drum tablature. What the heck would the difference be? Just that there are no note stems, etc. to indicate the exact rhythms?
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  #195  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

The worst idea in drumming is the idea of having no more new ideas. Every new idea in drumming has a place and I welcome and cherish all of them! Even the mystical air-inflated bearing edge, though quite frankly I would have no need for such a thing.

I sure am hoping my new ideas for drums that I am working on don't end up in this thread or one like it....
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  #196  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

I'll tell ya the worst idea in drumming. Outdoor drum pr0n. I'm mean really. Who, besides a gigging drummer, sets up their drums outside? They're drums. Not a car. Not lawn furniture. They belong inside in their natural habitat.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
OK, You're a drum company. You want your drums to sound good.
Why not put good heads on them!!! HELLO!!! . . .
Yeah, and what's particularly dumb about that is that beginners, especially younger kids, are not likely to know that the problem is the heads. So they get a $600 Tama kit, say, it comes with those stock heads, and it doesn't sound so great. Then maybe they hear someone playing, say, a Sonor kit with good heads on it, and figure the crucial difference must be the drums. So when it comes time to buy another kit, they avoid Tama. Of course the reverse could happen, too (Sonor first, then they hear a Tama kit with good heads) . . . so then they'd avoid Sonor. Either way, it's a bonehead move in terms of acquiring long-term, loyal customers when you're marketing entry-level kits.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

Ultra-heavy hardware of any kind- If you aren't playing metal or some other heavy-hitting genre of music you just don't need it. Having big, beefy hardware if you are playing coffee shop gigs is teh stoopid.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by JT1 View Post
Now I do like the idea of mounted floor toms as you can position them closer to you without the feet getting in the way
I've always used floor toms with legs, and if I had my floor tom and snare any closer to me, my leg couldn't possibly fit in between to play the bass drum. (I like all my drums really close together, so that the least amount of arm movement is required to hit stuff--I'd say it's because it's more efficient/you can get to everything with a lot more speed and precision, but it's probably just as much because I'm lazy.)
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and they are usually a lot easier to pack as Polly stated.
But heck, maybe I'm not that lazy. How difficult is it to undo three knobs and move the legs up?
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Yeah, I get that, and I was never a hater of deep toms (I actually like them except for their difficult placement), but I just had my 22x18 shortened by 4 inches a couple months ago and it's like a weight has been lifted. It's so much easier to hear it now.

If want a bigger sound, I'd rather go with a larger diameter than a longer tube. I think I might not like deep sounds on a kick.
Just mount a pedal on a 36" concert bass drum.
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