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  #41  
Old 02-22-2010, 04:30 AM
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Fishnmusicn Fishnmusicn is offline
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I've been playing on and off since about age 20 and am satisfied at over 50 now to just keep drumming as a home hobby I enjoy. I played back in the nineties in four different bands and though it had its good moments, I don't miss playing out but wouldn't mind jamming again just to see how it feels to get that musical connection with others and how tight it can be.

Drumming is something I enjoy and that is good enough for me to keep it where it's at. I like to shoot videos when I fish and put my keyboard stuff in the background, and I'm having fun recording myself drumming now and trying to get creative with the videos in that department as well.

I'm really too tied up with fishing when the weather is good to devote my weekend time to being in a band and that is fine with me.

Fishnmusicn
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  #42  
Old 02-22-2010, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by nhzoso View Post
Good points maybe I will get more vocal about it, The bass player pretty much try's to keep everyone in line but then he is always late and can never get together other than weeknights, plus we have a few other issues to solve but right now I am ok with it as I am still learning and am enjoying the band night once a week. if they seriously want to gig then we need to get more serious so maybe I will mention that.

They keep wanting to do an open mic near here but with us not ending correctly it will probably sukk, and I don't want to go on like that.



So you feel like I do. First let me say that I think you should do the open mic thing and get it over with. You won't really know till you do. Start the endings loud and slow it down and use a lot of cymbal hits or something. They will catch on and it's just an open mic night anyway. Not a paying job so go do it. Have a drink to settle yourself and have fun with it. If you play within yourself it will be a good time.
When you only have one evening a week nobody should be late. When someone is significantly late with us he gets mercilessly harrased by all. It doesnt happen often anymore. My door opens at 7 and closes at 7:30. It works.
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2010, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Fishnmusicn View Post
I'm really too tied up with fishing when the weather is good to devote my weekend time to being in a band and that is fine with me.

Fishnmusicn
I used to live to fish! I was brought up in the fields and woods. I'm still outdoors for fun! I've watched your videos too. Very cool!
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:24 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
OK, Here is the bobdadruma rant to answer your rant :

The guys that you play with should realize that you are not the drummer for them and you should step aside and allow them replace you. Its as simple as that! They want to gig more than you do. You don't have the same outlook as they do.
It is great that you helped to bring them together as a good band.
Now you have to live with the monster that you helped to create, or let the monster go on his way.
Sound advise and I will bring it up tonight. I have no problem disolving the whole thing. But have the rehersal space and the mics and PA and some road amps. Gee they might have to spend a few bucks. But that's another rant isnt it.
Come summer I'm gonna be hard to find anyway. That's no secret.
I may recommend bringing another drummer in here. There is 3 kits down here. Hey I might learn something! Excellent idea really. I know just the guy too and he is 10 times the drummer I am. The wheels are turning..
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Great posts Bob and DED!

Jim, your reply "Don't candy coat it, man" brought a smile - perfect :)
Polly,
Thank you.
I just wish the kid was wrong.
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

thank you for this amazing thread. i am currently 16 years old and i keep having dilemma's in my head thinking that if i drop my education, and go mainly into music it will be alright. this thread has made me realize that i only want to become a session drummer because after hearing the route of a musician ( hard work and repetitiveness everyday ) it doesn't sound all that fun. although music always comes first ahead of education, i guess i just have to go into the academic route to have a safer and more successful life, while jamming/gigging with the band occasionally on weekends
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2010, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I would probably go the pro route if given the opportunity, but more for the life experience than anything else. However, I don't know how long it would last. While I love drumming, I don't know if I could really dedicate my life to it.
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:11 PM
JeremyS JeremyS is offline
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I don't really want to be a pro. I started playing when I was 18 (36 now) and was in a band the day I bought my 1st kit. We were all beginners and our playing evolved together. Even then, my goal was really just to be able to have more than 20 or so hours of studio time to record/mix so we could get some good quality recordings and to get signed to a small indie label and get to tour.

One of our guitarists DJed the metal show at the college radio station and was able to get our demo heard by some label folks and we were hearing good feedback. Played some great shows with some awesome bands. Seemed like everything was coming together nicely. I even scored some session work here and there with some other local bands. Then in a span of a couple of months, both guitarists quit and everything I'd worked for for 8 years was for naught. I got a new job, met my wife and settled down. I kept my kit, but rarely played over the past 10 years until the passion returned a few months ago.

Now I'm pretty much just playing for fun and self improvement. My mom has been playing bass for the past 8 months or so and she's into a lot of the same stuff that I am. We're gonna learn some covers now that she's done with chemo and feeling up to it. I really don't care if we find a guitarist and play shows or anything. I'm just having fun playing, trying to regain some chops and figure out all of the innovations in the drum world from the past 10 years. The only way I would consider being a pro was is if it was on my own terms, playing stuff that I really enjoy and had a hand in creating which pretty much rules out the music industry by default.
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  #49  
Old 02-22-2010, 10:25 PM
Paul@DrumTone.com Paul@DrumTone.com is offline
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
With all respect to you Paul. Kind of uncool to jump into a thread to plug your product.
Your post doesn't really reflect the topic of this thread.
...Huh??

I was taught that ideally, music is a deeply honest and intimate expression to be "enjoyed" and not "capitalized", as I stated in my post. (Must be over your head.) 3 out of 5 of us are dead now, so those days are gone for me. Best I can do now is to contribute to the art in another fashion that will perhaps inspire creativity in others... SOR-RY!

BTW: Your childish jab had Absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of this tread. (HA! My brother would have chosen MUCH harsher words for you!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul@DrumTone.com View Post
I grew up in a musical family, including mom & dad. My two older brothers and I blew the windows out of my parentís basement playing 3-5 nights a week for almost a decade. Our play list from the 50s-60s-70s was very long and we were Smokin' Hot! Playing gigs ...for money? Eh... we did for a while, but why bother! We were having a purely natural blast as a family... what could be better? Sure, we played a few places, but it was always such a hassle and for very little money. In our minds the term "Professional Musician" was in some ways an oxymoron, and I'm sure we weren't alone. We used to wonder how much truly great music is unknown to the public because it wasn't capitalized for either money or ego...
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  #50  
Old 02-22-2010, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul@DrumTone.com View Post
...Huh??

I was taught that ideally, music is a deeply honest and intimate expression to be "enjoyed" and not "capitalized", as I stated in my post. (Must be over your head.) 3 out of 5 of us are dead now, so those days are gone for me. Best I can do now is to contribute to the art in another fashion that will perhaps inspire creativity in others... SOR-RY!

BTW: Your childish jab had Absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of this tread. (HA! My brother would have chosen MUCH harsher words for you!)
It didn't go over my head Paul. It didn't go over big foot's head either! It didn't go over anyone who read your post head! We all got it, loud and clear! You spun your post to try and sell your product. You should work for Fox News! Big foot is correct!

If you would have stopped at the musical family gigging paragraph, all would have been fine. You could have mentioned that you like to work on improvements for drums, That would have been OK.
Instead you gave a sales pitch. The sales pitch part of your post was longer than the first section that obscurely pertained to the thread!

I wasn't being childish, I was telling it like it is!

Why don't you just simply leave your web link as your signature and leave it at that! You could also place a Google ad that will appear on this site.
I looked at your history of posts and threads here on DW. Every post that you have made so far pertains to the endorsement of your product. I also looked at your profile. There are no pics of you playing with your bands. There are no samples of your playing. There are no pics of your kits. It appears that you came here for one reason, And one reason only!
That reason is to sell your product! I'm sorry Paul! You are not real to me, You are not real to many of us around here! You appear to be a spammer in the guise of a board member!
That is the way that we view you! Just ask anyone! They will tell you the same. I simply stated the obvious! That is what I do best. People laugh with me, They laugh at you!
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Last edited by bobdadruma; 02-23-2010 at 12:17 AM.
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  #51  
Old 02-23-2010, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
It didn't go over my head Paul. It didn't go over big foot's head either! It didn't go over anyone who read your post head! We all got it, loud and clear! You spun your post to try and sell your product. You should work for Fox News! Big foot is correct!
I got it as well. Didnt say anything because it was already said, fairly and politely. Enough said.
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  #52  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I didn't read anything but the original post, so I apologize if what I say has already been said or stirs up anything already gone over...

I know a few guys that just collect drums and don't play. There's nothing wrong with that. We all need our hobbies/passions.

If you want to play in a jam band, you need to find some like-minded individuals. Having people in a band "forcing" you to gig will just make the dynamics of that group hard to deal with, and you want to make music with people that you get along with at least. Although, by piecing together all of the gear at your jam space, you're basically saying to somebody who wants to gig, "Hey...he's got a PA! We can gig with that!" You need to make your intentions clear with the people that you're playing with that you just want to jam. If they're not cool with that, then you need to find other people to play with, simple as that. Otherwise, having a PA can communicate indirectly that you're "ready to gig". Clear, open communication is the key to any relationship, musical or otherwise.

Let me address the "PA" issue I just brought up. I learned the hard way over the years that when I play with a new group, I need to not let them know what gear I have. When I do that, suddenly they assume that I'm going to let the band use it. Oh, and then it would be expected that I'd have to cart it to gigs, set it up, etc. When I've refused to do this in the past, I've been referred to as "not a team player" and there's a huge tiff, and I usually end up stepping out of the band because of all of the unnecessary drama.

I used to have a band that I was semi-serious about continuing with (if they didn't get any gigs together soon, I was going to bail). The singer was responsible for bringing their PA to my house for rehearsals, just like the guitar player needed to cart their guitar/amp/microphone/stand, etc. The whole time, I had a full-on PA system stored, stacked, and put away in the next room. If I would have let them know that I had one, then it most likely would have been expected that it would be my duty to set it up for every rehearsal, spending that extra 45 minutes before AND 45 minutes after rehearsals setting up and tearing down equipment for a band that I wasn't fully committed to. That would have made the decision for me, as setting up and tearing down would have been more trouble than the band was worth at that point. Well, we started getting gigs, and when the topic of needing a PA popped up, I mentioned that I had one we could use live. The singer's jaw dropped, but when I explained the rationale behind not telling them for the past 6 months, he said that it made sense.

Anyways, slightly off-topic tangent, but you need to know what the ramifications of you hosting rehearsals with a bunch of gear for people to use is, and what it puts in other musicians' minds. But, like I said, have clear communication that you want a jam band and not a gigging machine, and you should be fine...
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My kit: http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44195
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  #53  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

caddy, You are what we in New England call a PISSAH! As a matter of fact, We would call you "Wicked Pissah Cool!" LOL!
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  #54  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
caddy, You are what we in New England call a PISSAH! As a matter of fact, We would call you "Wicked Pissah Cool!" LOL!
I sure hope that's a good thing!

Over here on the west coast, when something bad happens, we say, "Well, ain't THAT a pissah..."
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  #55  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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I sure hope that's a good thing!

Over here on the west coast, when something bad happens, we say, "Well, ain't THAT a pissah..."
Yea, Its a good thing. Just like you said. A Pissah!
East meets West dude! It's the same thing but backwards!

I just thought of a funny story.
Many years ago I was giving someone a ride home who had to much to drink. He was from NYC. (Keep in mind that I'm from Connecticut and New Yorkers didn't speak our language at the time)

He said to me "This is a real ladies car" (I was driving my 64 Thunderbird at the time)
I took it as "You're a Fag, and this is a girls car" What he meant was "'This is a good car to pick up girls in"
I punched him in the mouth!!! ( Yea, I was also sober!) He said, "What the F was that for?"
It took us about an hour to sort it out!
Language barrier! WHOOPS, Sorry Dude!
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  #56  
Old 02-23-2010, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

My goal is to make a living playing music. It would be awesome to be a rich rockstar & tour the world but I like live in reality. I am making moves to making music my main source of income. I play in 2 bands, buy/sell gear, give lessons, and work in a music retail store by day. If I can make $30-$50k a year from doing that I will be happy. I may not be a pro like say, Steve Gadd but a pro musician none the less.

So, no I don't want to be pro in the sense of famous rockstar, drugs, sex, & rock n roll (which I did way too much of all 3 in my younger years). That would be a great life but only a very select few achieve. I just want music to be my job. Its the only things I really enjoy & have passion for in life.
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  #57  
Old 02-23-2010, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Many years ago I was giving someone a ride home who had to much to drink. He was from NYC. (Keep in mind that I'm from Connecticut and New Yorkers didn't speak our language at the time)

He said to me "This is a real ladies car" (I was driving my 64 Thunderbird at the time)
I took it as "You're a Fag, and this is a girls car" What he meant was "'This is a good car to pick up girls in"
I punched him in the mouth!!! ( Yea, I was also sober!) He said, "What the F was that for?"
It took us about an hour to sort it out!
Language barrier! WHOOPS, Sorry Dude!
That's pretty damn funny!
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  #58  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I rarely dreamed about being a pro. Occasionally, yes, but I was taught realism from a very early age. I have been in a very ambitious band that made great music, but I was uncomfortable with the idea of investing too many hours in a wild dream, especially combined with a university study that didn't go too well at that time, plus the other things I had going in my free time. I was asked to quit, and complied to that request immediately.
I am currently in a band that plays mainly for fun. We rehearse 3 hours per week, and have our first gig in April. Other than that, I play drums at IFES-conferences in the Netherlands (retiring from that position somewhere next academic year). I teach drums every friday afternoon for that extra buck to fill up the gaps in my income (scholarship), and am very proud to call myself a semi-professional. But full-time drumming, dealing with boobs (the people, not the woman-parts) on a regular basis? Nah, I'll get an engineering job and make more money starting out than most professional musicians with a well established career. That'll pay for my gear, rehearsals and transport to gigs. Not to mention a family.

Jim, I enjoyed your posts and stories. My advice is to set the goals straight with your band. If you only want to play for fun, and don't want to gig too often, just let them know. Worst case scenario is they will fire you from the band. Tough sh** for them. Plenty of decent musicians to go around and you have your own rehearsal space!
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  #59  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

So last night I broach the subject. It it turns out guitar number 1 who has a boat on the same dock feels the same way. He also has a surf/Zappa band that plays in the city (NYC) once or twice a month. Guitar number 2 wants to go surfing and race with his dad every weekend. And he wants to go back to school but didn't want to let us down. Jeez kid GO. No brainer? His dad owns the marina. The guy who hits things and tries to play blues harp but also sings our two best tunes AND also has a boat on our dock doesn't care. The bass player who is "so smart he is stupid" wants to play every bar everywhere every night and be a rock star. He also doesn't even OWN a bass or a cable or an amp. I doubt I will ever take this guy seriously. The keys guy will be crewing every weekend and right now is in Texas installing cabinets. I cannot believe he builds cabinets, drives them clear across a freakin continent and installs them but he is.
Well we played our new Alvin Lee tune and a few things we are rusty on and jammed for a while. I forgot the fun of jamming!
So on we go doing our dinner sets and playing the occasional party with no illusions. Rehearsals will be more like they used to be (read more FUN) and come summer we will do whatever we do. I will say that Connecticut winters SUCK and the band got me through it in short order.
Man Caddywumpus you are hard core! Making the singer hump the PA... Haha.. Kinda my hero dude! I enjoy people using my stuff but I didn't know what a pain in the arse it is to break down here set up there break down there set up here and on and on. Now I do.
And Bob. If there is ever anything I say that perhaps you don't understand, give me a chance to explain! Funny story. Wicked cool! Guy probably needed a whack anyway. Most people do, as you know.
Well carry on people. Thanks again for the input.
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  #60  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Paul@DrumTone.com Paul@DrumTone.com is offline
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Yea, Its a good thing. Just like you said. A Pissah!
East meets West dude! It's the same thing but backwards!

I just thought of a funny story.
Many years ago I was giving someone a ride home who had to much to drink. He was from NYC. (Keep in mind that I'm from Connecticut and New Yorkers didn't speak our language at the time)

He said to me "This is a real ladies car" (I was driving my 64 Thunderbird at the time)
I took it as "You're a Fag, and this is a girls car" What he meant was "'This is a good car to pick up girls in"
I punched him in the mouth!!! ( Yea, I was also sober!) He said, "What the F was that for?"
It took us about an hour to sort it out!
Language barrier! WHOOPS, Sorry Dude!
...and this has what to do with the subject, Mr. Da?
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  #61  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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...and this has what to do with the subject, Mr. Da?
Yep, that was a tangent. The difference is that you were going on one for your own personal gain, not as part of a conversation.

Look, I understand that you want to promote your product, but there's a time and place for it, and an otherwise interesting conversation is not the right setting. Arguing about it just makes it worse.
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  #62  
Old 02-23-2010, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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...and this has what to do with the subject, Mr. Da?
What about "enough said" did you not understand Paul? Just let it go brother.
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  #63  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Yep, that was a tangent. The difference is that you were going on one for your own personal gain, not as part of a conversation.

Look, I understand that you want to promote your product, but there's a time and place for it, and an otherwise interesting conversation is not the right setting. Arguing about it just makes it worse.
^ This.

There was no need to slip in SPAM into the conversation, and trying to deny you did makes you look worse. And now, rather than making me interested in your product, I'm now so turned off I'll make it a point to not buy it.
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  #64  
Old 02-24-2010, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I'm 56 and have been playing most of my life. Although I play other styles well, jazz has always been my true love. Without relating my musical life, here's the catch-22-- if you're not a professional, you don't get to play with other professional-level players. There's the rub. And if you're an excellent player, then playing with inferior musicians just doesn't cut it.
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  #65  
Old 02-24-2010, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Flam_Taps View Post
I'm 56 and have been playing most of my life. Although I play other styles well, jazz has always been my true love. Without relating my musical life, here's the catch-22-- if you're not a professional, you don't get to play with other professional-level players. There's the rub. And if you're an excellent player, then playing with inferior musicians just doesn't cut it.
I certainly get what you're saying here and whilst I'm loathe to appear to be arguing it, I'll just add that I've played with some pretty damn fine musicians in my time that weren't 'pro'....at least not pro in anything but attitude. I really don't believe that being 'pro' automatically denotes a higher quality of musicianship than a dedicated life-long musician who still happens to have a day job (check the top 40 charts for numerous examples of this). There are many exceptions in music, hence why we so often say there are very few rules to be followed. A good musician is a good musician....regardless of what they do during the day.
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  #66  
Old 02-24-2010, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
I certainly get what you're saying here and whilst I'm loathe to appear to be arguing it, I'll just add that I've played with some pretty damn fine musicians in my time that weren't 'pro'....at least not pro in anything but attitude. I really don't believe that being 'pro' automatically denotes a higher quality of musicianship than a dedicated life-long musician who still happens to have a day job (check the top 40 charts for numerous examples of this). There are many exceptions in music, hence why we so often say there are very few rules to be followed. A good musician is a good musician....regardless of what they do during the day.
Very well said. Two thumbs up!
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

Well, yes of course, and I'm disagreeing with you. For the past 15-20 years I've been gigging with players who also have a day job. But the thing is-- most of the time their day job is college music professor or secondary school music teacher.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Flam_Taps View Post
Well, yes of course, and I'm disagreeing with you. For the past 15-20 years I've been gigging with players who also have a day job. But the thing is-- most of the time their day job is college music professor or secondary school music teacher.
Disagree away mate. My point was never to get you to agree with me, it was merely to point out that one doesn't necessarily have to be 'pro' to be effective as a working musician. I just have not found your statement " if you're not a professional, you don't get to play with other professional-level players", to always be the case. There are plenty of guys out there with no musical angle with respect to their day job, that are well worth playing with in my humble opinion. They may not be professional, but they're still damn good......and above all they have a professional attitude. That's all I was getting at....nothing more, nothing less.

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Old 02-24-2010, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

Ok, I understand. I wasn't really thinking in terms of "professional attitude" so much as simply playing ability. So long as everyone shows up at the gig ready and able to play the gig, that's pretty much all I've ever considered in terms of attitude. Over the years I've been professionally acquainted with the guys I've gigged with, but aside from one bass player with whom I shared a condo in Florida years ago, it's always been a professional, not a social relationship. I don't personally like hanging around with musicians in my daily life. That would be something akin to choosing my circle of friends based upon their driving the same kind of car I drive, or if I were a physical therapist, choosing only to have friends who are also physical therapists, etc...
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Flam_Taps View Post
I don't personally like hanging around with musicians in my daily life. That would be something akin to choosing my circle of friends based upon their driving the same kind of car I drive, or if I were a physical therapist, choosing only to have friends who are also physical therapists, etc...
Yeah, me either - why would I want to hang out with people who share my passion music and for playing? What an uninteresting waste of time that would be! I like hanging out with insurance salespeople and actuarials, myself. Man, them cats know how to price up a policy and assess risk!
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

Well, I committed a typo a few comments up. I meant to say that I'm NOT disagreeing with you. And I'd also like a apologize for not really connecting on this thread other than to imply that many people in all walks of life are creative, not just musicians, and in my particular situation, not just people who play contracted one-nighter jazz gigs. I do have one long-time good friend who happens to be a keyboard player, but over the 24 years we've known each other we've actually only worked one gig together. But otherwise, we happen to share many common interests based upon a shared philosophy of life which extends far beyond music.
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:17 AM
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Well, I committed a typo a few comments up. I meant to say that I'm NOT disagreeing with you. And I'd also like a apologize for not really connecting on this thread other than to imply that many people in all walks of life are creative, not just musicians, and in my particular situation, not just people who play contracted one-nighter jazz gigs. I do have one long-time good friend who happens to be a keyboard player, but over the 24 years we've known each other we've actually only worked one gig together. But otherwise, we happen to share many common interests based upon a shared philosophy of life which extends far beyond music.
From what I've seen so far, I really don't think our philosophies are that far removed. I was just concerned for the 13-16 year old who reads this thread in days to come, worrying that his 'musical journey' accounts for nothing because he's 'not a pro' and will therefore never get to play with 'pro musos', is all.

It's also worth qualifying here, that my definition of 'pro' is someone who's sole income is generated from playing music (whether live, recording or teaching)......NOT the sales manager who can successfully subsidise his income by playing regular gigs at a high standard.

There surely is room in the scheme of things to accommodate both. I know this because I've been in bands with guys from both ends of the spectrum. I am speaking from my experience alone. But that experience certainly tells me that there are plenty of 'non-pro' musicians about who are gifted enough to be considered worthy of playing with.

Hope this clarifies.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Grand dreams of fame and fortune are BS IMO and usually result in clerical, accountancy or automotive work. Dreams of going that next step - getting your spaces and timing more precise, improving coordinated independence, improving your dynamics, gaining a better understanding of musical interpretation, working to gel better in the band sound etc - they are REAL dreams and far more likely to yield satisfying results.
One thing to realize is that 97% of the people in this country become complacent in their lives pretty quickly. Once one has graduated from college, settled into their profession, and married that's when the complacency begins. It's that small 3% that continues to drive forward and never stops learning new things.

I like to think of Virgin Records founder Richard Branson as the most non-complacent person who ever existed. I realize he's an extreme case, but there's a good example right there. Now if you look at it that way... I do think it's realistic for a drummer to keep driving forward to the point where he can go pro. But he'd have to make great sacrfices. He'd have to move somewhere like NYC and take lessons from the best teachers. At the same time putting in endless hours of effective practice. How many of us drummers ever do that, though? Very few. They become complacent and happy with their current skills.
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

I'm 20, and though I've been in several bands in the past (I've even been paid for it a couple of times!), and hope to be in many more in the future, I know I wont ever become a professional, nor do I have the desire to. For one thing, theres a large Indie rock "scene" in my area, which is where my best chance of getting in a band is. And unless we move out to Seattle and managed to rise above the thousands and thousands of other people to rise up and become the next Death Cab or The Shins or something, I honestly dont see it happening. I really enjoy playing for fun with people, and would really love to get a small combo together with friends, and maybe play some places over the summer, but right now I'm in school and thats what matters. Another thing with being in school is that I'm 2 hours away from my drums and cant ever practice, so unfortunately I'm getting a little rusty.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Originally Posted by nocTurnal View Post
One thing to realize is that 97% of the people in this country become complacent in their lives pretty quickly. Once one has graduated from college, settled into their profession, and married that's when the complacency begins. It's that small 3% that continues to drive forward and never stops learning new things.

I like to think of Virgin Records founder Richard Branson as the most non-complacent person who ever existed. I realize he's an extreme case, but there's a good example right there. Now if you look at it that way... I do think it's realistic for a drummer to keep driving forward to the point where he can go pro. But he'd have to make great sacrfices. He'd have to move somewhere like NYC and take lessons from the best teachers. At the same time putting in endless hours of effective practice. How many of us drummers ever do that, though? Very few. They become complacent and happy with their current skills.
Not sure people become complacent so much as resigned to the limitations forced on them by life. Obviously there's very little room at the top. So if, say 50% of people strive to reach the pinnacle then maybe 0.5% of them (or less) will get there. What of the other 49.5%. They can either struggle on against heavy odds or realign their goals.

And once you get older and the energy and strength of youth fades away, it's very easy to look more for comfort than stimulation. They may well still strive to grow, but more slowly and less ambitiously then before.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:11 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Not sure people become complacent so much as resigned to the limitations forced on them by life. Obviously there's very little room at the top. So if, say 50% of people strive to reach the pinnacle then maybe 0.5% of them (or less) will get there. What of the other 49.5%. They can either struggle on against heavy odds or realign their goals.

And once you get older and the energy and strength of youth fades away, it's very easy to look more for comfort than stimulation. They may well still strive to grow, but more slowly and less ambitiously then before.

Really it truly all comes down to something all about your personal attitude and the learning process to me. We can limit what we can do based on many external factors for sure as we get older. I'm no stranger to personal sacrificies to keep doing what I do above other things many others feel are far more important in life to grab onto, its about making choices. When I saw Roy Haynes right after his 80th birthday this point came home in spades in the most humble of ways believe me. We are only limited by the boundaries we self impose on ourselves i've learned in life and the realistic choices we need to make to achieve our personal goals. Everyones goals are very different in that regard without casting judgement on wanting to be a pro or not.

I was the young guy in my latest percussion ensemble project for Vancouver 2010 for the Olympics combined with Canadian and French players and during a casual meeting with the leader yesterday I stated clearly to him what an incredible enriching learning experience it was for me to be kicked into a different direction out of my usual acoustic jazz based comfort zone. I told him this experience opened up news doors for the "old guy" musically speaking I can add into my overall musical output into any further situations as a professional player I come across down the road.

Being too comforable in life can lead quickly to growing moss..... you have to be able to push yourself and continue to take chances from what you feel most comforable doing if you want to stay "young at heart" and learn and push yourself all the time to learn even more most importantly.

The creative growing and learning process never stops based on your ATTITUDE and realistic hard choices you have to make towards it.........
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Not sure people become complacent so much as resigned to the limitations forced on them by life. Obviously there's very little room at the top. So if, say 50% of people strive to reach the pinnacle then maybe 0.5% of them (or less) will get there. What of the other 49.5%. They can either struggle on against heavy odds or realign their goals.

And once you get older and the energy and strength of youth fades away, it's very easy to look more for comfort than stimulation. They may well still strive to grow, but more slowly and less ambitiously then before.
Well, I think Steamer explained it pretty well just below me. I'm pretty sure based on what he said that he agrees with me. However, it looks like you are disagreeing and saying that most people aren't complacent, but that they have "limitations." Unless they're disabled or sick, there's no reason why someone can't achieve higher goals.

I don't know about you, but most people I know, when they get home from work, they just want to view TV all night. The average American watches 153 hours of TV a month. The amount of TV viewed increases every year. That leaves very little time for engaging in constructive activities such as learning a musical instrument. I'm not judging or criticizing people BTW. I'm stating it how it is. I'm very guilty myself of complacency, but at least I'm aware of it and try to break out of it.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:42 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Well, I think Steamer explained it pretty well just below me. I'm pretty sure based on what he said that he agrees with me. However, it looks like you are disagreeing and saying that most people aren't complacent, but that they have "limitations." Unless they're disabled or sick, there's no reason why someone can't achieve higher goals.

I don't know about you, but most people I know, when they get home from work, they just want to view TV all night. The average American watches 153 hours of TV a month. The amount of TV viewed increases every year. That leaves very little time for engaging in constructive activities such as learning a musical instrument. I'm not judging or criticizing people BTW. I'm stating it how it is. I'm very guilty myself of complacency, but at least I'm aware of it and try to break out of it.
I thought your original post in this thread was exellent nocTurnal by the way....stick around.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: Anyone NOT want to be a pro?

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Not sure people become complacent so much as resigned to the limitations forced on them by life. Obviously there's very little room at the top.
Very true, Polly, but a big problem is the almost total elimination of the "middle." When I started out (I know, old guy talking) but when I started out professionaly there were nightclubs to play in, steady gigs in house bands, six nights a week, good money and plenty of playing time, time to learn and get your stuff together.

You had to be a union member to work these jobs and that right there made you a "pro" so to speak. You got to interact with other players and compare notes and hang out and jam and all that's pretty much gone.

It's true that a lot the music we played was pretty corny stuff, standards and that, and some band leaders wanted their players to wear uniforms (!), but just having that middle ground to work in brought you into contact with all kinds of players, which often led to more high-profile, "hipper" gigs.

Now all that's gone, so there's a huge, almost insurmountable gap between the "bottom" and the "top."
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:54 AM
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Very true, Polly, but a big problem is the almost total elimination of the "middle." When I started out (I know, old guy talking) but when I started out professionaly there were nightclubs to play in, steady gigs in house bands, six nights a week, good money and plenty of playing time, time to learn and get your stuff together.

You had to be a union member to work these jobs and that right there made you a "pro" so to speak. You got to interact with other players and compare notes and hang out and jam and all that's pretty much gone.

It's true that a lot the music we played was pretty corny stuff, standards and that, and some band leaders wanted their players to wear uniforms (!), but just having that middle ground to work in brought you into contact with all kinds of players, which often led to more high-profile, "hipper" gigs.

Now all that's gone, so there's a huge, almost insurmountable gap between the "bottom" and the "top."

That's true but it also depends where you live. If you're hungry to really want it enough regardless of age to keep the dream alive you have to place yourself accordingly in the "right" place to "make it happen".

This ties into what I just referenced about making hard choices especially if you want to be a pro especially today in a tougher money making scene. Nocturnal covered this too in his fine post about what the younger players and what they have to do to be prepared AND get their foot in the door on the pro level stage. No "for sures" understood but if you are in the wrong place your chances are far more diminished in my view in todays world....
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Last edited by Steamer; 02-25-2010 at 06:06 AM.
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