I am in a classic/modern rock cover band and I had a few questions from people with experience....Are these gigs worth it? Are they hard to get? Do they pay ok? It seems like they would be fun places to play, where the crowd may be a little more into it than a typical dive bar....but that is just my hunch.
VFW/American Legion/Moose Lodge Gigs
- Thread starter jdrummys
- Start date
mrchattr
Gold Member
I'm sure that every one of them is different. In my experience, they are harder to get...you generally need to know someone in the organization who will get you into one. However, the lodges all speak with each other locally, so once you are in one, you can play a bunch of them. Some of them (Moose Lodge is the only place I've seen this) actually stop the band for a prayer, which is fine, but can seem a little strange when you toss a prayer in between Crazy Bitch and She F'in Hates Me. The pay varies greatly. There is one Moose we play twice a year (we aren't willing to do it more there) for $250. We NEVER play for that little money, but our band is friends with the guy who owns the Moose, so we cut him a discount once every 6 months. We are also the only band that he can even afford to pay $250 to, because the place is not overly profitable. On the other hand, we usually get our usual fees or more to play at some of the VFW's, etc. Each one seems to have it's own idea of what a fair price is, too...it's not like you play one VFW for $600, you play 'em all for $600.
Again, I'm sure it's different in every lodge, but it seems like most of the people that go to the various VFWs, etc, are older, and not overly into music. If they are open to the public, so you can bring your own crowd out, then it's a great idea. However, if they aren't, good luck! A lot of the times we've played these places, the audience has remained seated, and only gotten into some of the classic rock (Skynyrd is a must). Often, as we set up, the jukebox will be blaring Elvis, Sinatra, etc. We usually play our shows to seated audiences, but afterwards get a lot of compliments, and always get re-booked.
Basically, they aren't my favorite shows to play, but they are profitable, and usually there are regulars there who get to know you and the band.
Chollyred
Senior Member
We used to play a couple of VFW gigs a year. Usually around $200 a night. Like mrchttr, the pay isn't that good, but it's better than doing nothing. Be prepared to play a lot of older dance music. If you can't get them up on their feet, the night will be a bust. Also be careful with the sound levels. Get too loud and they might ask you to leave; happened to us once. At least we still got paid.
Vipercussionist
Silver Member
I'm not talking about those suedo "nightclub" setups where a booking agent hires the hall and runs it like his own personal nightclub so HE can make a profit, I'm talking about YOU hiring out a hall and holding YOUR OWN show and keeping ALL the profits!!
Being as you're just HIRING the hall, yeah, the gig is EASY to GET. ANYONE can pay the fee to use a VFW or other type of hall.
However, once you have a date set for a gig it's up to YOU and your band to advertise enough to fill the room with paying customers.
It''ll pay JUST FINE if people come to see you and they pay the cover charge at the door. Pretty simple economics, no customers, no pay.
The "crowd" will be the type of people who came JUST to see your band so they SHOULD be more "into it". Random people won't just be meandering in off the street usually, your advertising will indicate who shows up.
If no one knows you're there no one will show. The more people who KNOW, the more people will SHOW.
If 1000 people KNOW about the gig, MAYBE 50 will get their lazy asses off the couch and go out to see you. Then you'll have to make it worth their while. It better not be too expensive or they'll just turn, leave and go elsewhere to spend their hard earned dollar.
mrchattr
Gold Member
Uh, I think the OP was talking about getting booked to play the bar at one of these clubs, NOT booking the hall for your own concert.
Vipercussionist
Silver Member
Yep, that's why I prefaced it with:
Unless the ones who book bands are doing quite well, you'd be better off doing it on your own. Lots of "halls" rent for ridiculously cheap so it's not a major investment in cash, and if it works out (there's no guarantee at the other type either) you'll get to keep ALL the profits instead of a middle man keeping a huge percentage.
mrchattr
Gold Member
Ah, I didn't realize you were recommending doing that. Hmmm...
I only have one experience doing this, but from that, I have to disagree. To book your own concert legally, you need insurance for the night, etc, and the costs really add up. My old band did this for a New Years Eve gig a few years ago. We had a large following, and got over 100 people to come to the show...but, when all was said and done, we ended up paying a little bit for the night. Yup, we lost money. When you rent a hall, there is the rental fee, the price of advertising, the additional price of restrooms/trash removal (most halls have this fee seperate from the rental fee), the price of the insurance (I forget the number, our manager handled it, but this was by far and away the most expensive part of it all, way more than the hall), the price of any food/drinks (you can't serve booze, obviously), etc.
I can honestly say that, when we did it, it was the worst experience I've ever had in a band (doing all the prep stuff), even though the show was a blast.
Besides, like I said, pricing varies...we make $400 - $600 at some of these places. To make that, after expenses, if you booked your own show, you'd have to have a couple hundred people show up, or have really expensive tickets.
Again, I only have the one experience...but it was a nightmare.
diosdude
Silver Member
Back in my old home town, Bradenton, Fl, the vfw was comprised almost exclusively of old timers who fought in WW2 and Korea. Where i'm at now there are actually a bunch of dessert storm guys and a few 'Nam vets who hang out for dollar beers. I guess if you can land a gig with a younger vfw it may be fun. I'd say a better bet for you guys is to hit up your local college fraternities, those guys usually pay really well, the party is always ripe with 20 year old honeys and everyone is usually having a blast.
Vipercussionist
Silver Member
Well, unfortunately NONE of us hit a home run EVERY time. But there's plenty of places that already have a bar, and that's why the venue is so cheap, they'll make money at the bar rather than on the venue rental itself. All of those other fees are included in all of the situations I've seen.
Never inquired about insurance as in order to BE in business the building and it's business would HAVE to be insured, especially if there's a working bar in the building. Never would be bothered with food unless the venue has it's own kitchen as some of them do, and it would be their choice to serve or not. We're musicians (and drummers), not caterers.
I just did 6 weeks of Sundays of exactly this with a pick up band I work with. We rented the hall, they supplied the booze and they were HAPPY for the business!! Any monies collected at the door were for the band, they made their cash from the rental and the booze. All clean up was their problem and they even washed the floor just before load in so it was nice and sparkly for us!!
mrchattr
Gold Member
That's really cool! In my area (and I don't know if it's local or what), if a band is putting on an event, they have to get a special kind of insurance for the night. At the same time, all of the halls with bars that we have in this area book bands themselves, and when you book a hall (be it for a concert or wedding-type thing), they don't allow you to go between the bar and the hall. I'm going to start looking for places with bars that don't hire entertainment but have halls, to see if we could do something like this.
Vipercussionist
Silver Member
The place we rented was an Elks lodge, it had TWO bars, one inside the hall, staffed by their employees, and a separate Bar area for the members who didn't want to be in the Hall area so they could hang out and watch the big screen and drink.
Who knows, maybe they're breakin'; ALL the RULES, but it'll be the first I've ever heard of it.
Maybe it's their way of scamming a few more bucks out of you?? IDK.
rogue_drummer
Gold Member
After reading this thread, I'm just wondering out loud here. As an enterprising sort and with more than a few drinking buddies, would it be worthwhile to open such a hall to showcase established talent and up and coming talent? For sake of argument, all the liquor and beer and food licenses were obtainable, and decent tables and chairs, a decent bar area, and a good, solid workable PA system in place, and a good stage area.
Some place where up and coming bands could play and be heard and gain experience, and more established talent could try new material, or play old favorites. Some metro place where folks could go, relax, and hear live music, without the "meat market" club scenes. A place for musicians and music lovers, catering to country, jazz, rock, blues, atlernative, metal, international genre artists. Maybe charge a nominal / reasonable cover to get in.
In the D/FW area, there is not really a hall devoted to strictly to that. You have bars and coffee houses, but it appears to be the music is "secondary" to everything else.
Would such a place be viable???
Some place where up and coming bands could play and be heard and gain experience, and more established talent could try new material, or play old favorites. Some metro place where folks could go, relax, and hear live music, without the "meat market" club scenes. A place for musicians and music lovers, catering to country, jazz, rock, blues, atlernative, metal, international genre artists. Maybe charge a nominal / reasonable cover to get in.
In the D/FW area, there is not really a hall devoted to strictly to that. You have bars and coffee houses, but it appears to be the music is "secondary" to everything else.
Would such a place be viable???
mrchattr
Gold Member
Meh, I know it wasn't a scam, because our manager was a lawyer who did the research...but again, just because we had that experience doesn't mean I am discounting what you did. Like I said, I'm interested in it! I just don't know of anywhere here that allows that kind of thing...but I'm certainly going to look into it at some point!
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Wanting to tour the animal club circuit eh? No experience playing them but from attending a few I can tell you to forget the "modern rock" in your set list. That just ain't happening. The mean age of those places tends to be a lot higher than your average bar or club.