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  #41  
Old 01-24-2009, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Our own worst enemies

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Not quite what i meant. What i was trying to say is that they sound digitised like all of these guitar amp sound emulators. Also if i wanted no hum i'd just buy a noise gate. Oh wait i did. No hum. Most of these devices also have a built in noise gate.

MFB don't forget different tunings as well. I must admit tho WI gibson les pauls are a rip-off. I doubt most people who play the guitar would ever notice the quality difference between an 800 guitar and a 2000 les paul, mostly because there isn't any. But yeah, different tunings.
Ah, I see.

Again, a variax can get you any tuning you want. Noise gates are quite a pain, too. I guess it's all subjective. For example, I really like a cold sound, warm tones really annoy me.

Variax is for me, not for you.
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  #42  
Old 01-24-2009, 08:27 PM
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There's a point.

Actually in my experience the Variax is very natural sounding. Although it's not quite 'real' it really isn't far off. And gates are a pain.

On the other hand, I'm utterly with you on the tunings. And if anybody says 'oh you can just change it!' it doesn't work like that. New tunings require an entirely new set up of the guitar - particularly with regards to the intonation.
Noise gates are not a pain at all. You just set the threshold and the decay and off you go. Some noise gates don't even have a decay knob.

The thing about the tunings is that it's not just the setup but if you have a guitar in drop C tuning with 13-56s on it you can't just tune it up to standard otherwise you'll have a banana for a neck.

tutin, what do you define as a "warm" tone?
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  #43  
Old 01-25-2009, 12:48 AM
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The thing about the tunings is that it's not just the setup but if you have a guitar in drop C tuning with 13-56s on it you can't just tune it up to standard otherwise you'll have a banana for a neck.
Absolutely true, but I know someone who uses a 60 for a low E, so it is possible to set it up like that!

If you want a way to spend a LOT of money and never run out of things to buy, I have one word for you...

...recording.
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2009, 04:09 AM
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Noise gates are not a pain at all. You just set the threshold and the decay and off you go. Some noise gates don't even have a decay knob.

The thing about the tunings is that it's not just the setup but if you have a guitar in drop C tuning with 13-56s on it you can't just tune it up to standard otherwise you'll have a banana for a neck.

tutin, what do you define as a "warm" tone?
Well it's like the difference between old tape decks and digital recording. In short, the magnetic properties of the tape brought out really quiet harmonics that gave a sound everyone agrees to be "warm". With digital recording software (In my experience, Cubase in particular) it's harder to achieve this property. In terms of guitar tone I'd say it's like Kirk Hammet and Dimebag, warm and cold respectively. Dime went really far to get a "cold" sound, using effects etc. Cold sounds more digitised I suppose you could say.
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2009, 01:02 PM
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Absolutely true, but I know someone who uses a 60 for a low E, so it is possible to set it up like that!

If you want a way to spend a LOT of money and never run out of things to buy, I have one word for you...

...recording.
Yeah i know you can set up like that but i mean it would take a long time to readjust the truss rod and all that. And yeah that is so true! You could literally spend tens of thousands on a recording setup, not to mention all the different things you need like outboard fx, soundproofing etc...
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2009, 03:05 PM
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Noise gates are not a pain at all. You just set the threshold and the decay and off you go. Some noise gates don't even have a decay knob.

The thing about the tunings is that it's not just the setup but if you have a guitar in drop C tuning with 13-56s on it you can't just tune it up to standard otherwise you'll have a banana for a neck.

tutin, what do you define as a "warm" tone?
Nope, noise gates are a pain. I avoid using them wherever possible - but then again I am talking about setting up noise gates in relation to drum recording to prevent bleed from other microphones; which really can be a pain. To be honest, my guitar rig has some noise and I know it does - but I would much rather play around reducing that noise than slapping a gate on it. Most of the time it's just earthing and playing around with the order of the plugs and that'll get rid of the majority of the hum. The rest I can live with. I'm not someone who really strives for the 'perfect' sound - in fact (in keeping with philosophical ideas of dirt within something otherwise pure) I really like a natural approach and the occasional bit of background hum is utterly natural. Music that is clean, frankly, irritates me most of the time. The best example of the dirt is the new Portishead album - I've said this before - Portishead are the kind of band that you would expect to have 'perfect sounding' recordings, given their field of music; but no. Far from it. Little mistakes are in the music and it sounds bloody fantastic.
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2009, 04:51 PM
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Nope, noise gates are a pain. I avoid using them wherever possible - but then again I am talking about setting up noise gates in relation to drum recording to prevent bleed from other microphones; which really can be a pain. To be honest, my guitar rig has some noise and I know it does - but I would much rather play around reducing that noise than slapping a gate on it. Most of the time it's just earthing and playing around with the order of the plugs and that'll get rid of the majority of the hum. The rest I can live with. I'm not someone who really strives for the 'perfect' sound - in fact (in keeping with philosophical ideas of dirt within something otherwise pure) I really like a natural approach and the occasional bit of background hum is utterly natural. Music that is clean, frankly, irritates me most of the time. The best example of the dirt is the new Portishead album - I've said this before - Portishead are the kind of band that you would expect to have 'perfect sounding' recordings, given their field of music; but no. Far from it. Little mistakes are in the music and it sounds bloody fantastic.
Well it's not just hum that noise gates stop, it's the feedback from the guitar. You can't stop that by sorting out the cables.
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2009, 11:25 PM
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Well it's not just hum that noise gates stop, it's the feedback from the guitar. You can't stop that by sorting out the cables.
I'm standing far enough away from my gear not to get feedback. Plus feedback is no bad thing if you know how to control it. Just use the volume control!
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  #49  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Our own worst enemies

That doesn't work if you've got a mad high-gain thing going on to get mega distortion, then it just becomes unmanageable. Which is a shame. Less distortion for me please. Oh, thank you.
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  #50  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:09 AM
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That doesn't work if you've got a mad high-gain thing going on to get mega distortion, then it just becomes unmanageable. Which is a shame. Less distortion for me please. Oh, thank you.
Personally a fan of the massive fuzz sound, but I'm with you in huge distortion. It just sounds lifeless and then gates have to be used. Give me a nice piece of warm fuzz ala David Gilmour and you can't go too wrong.
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  #51  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:14 AM
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Fuzz can be fun. I do like an AC/DC twang though. The best of both worlds.
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:17 AM
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And that sir, is why I tend to play a slightly higher-than-average-output Stratocaster.
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:20 AM
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What a good idea. Mind you, that's more or less what an SG does. But you get a nice mellow sort of underpowered Les Paul tone with it as well. I do like SGs.
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:25 AM
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I like SG's too, but I'm not big on humbuckers for what I do. With that said, my other guitar has humbuckers and a shorter scale length. I prefer the longer scale length of the Strat though for every day playing - and the neck is thinner.
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  #55  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:44 AM
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SGs also weigh basically nothing.

...also, is it me, or has this place turned into a guitar forum?
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  #56  
Old 01-26-2009, 02:13 PM
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I'm standing far enough away from my gear not to get feedback. Plus feedback is no bad thing if you know how to control it. Just use the volume control!
i knew you would say that! Well clearly you must play music which doesn't have any short pauses in the guitar parts. Seriously even with the smallest gaps in the guitar playing (think playing triplets) it just sounds so much tighter and considering the gap in the music is like 1/10th of a second i would love to see you try and use the volume control to stop the feedback in such circumstances. And high gain distortion does not sound "lifeless" it's just that you clearly don't listen to it enough to hear what is good about it. I think that's the point really. Clearly we both have completely different approaches to playing guitar which is fine but don't bother telling me that noise gates are annoying or pointless because it's just not true.
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  #57  
Old 01-26-2009, 03:15 PM
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Good God you do get rather defensive don't you?

If you actually read what I say, I don't think they're pointless, I just think that for - my application - they are actually rather pointless. I shouldn't have to put down 'in my opinion' you should already assume that. I don't find a need for them. And if you'd read what I put earlier as well, then you'd also realise that I don't want a perfect crisp sound a lot of the time - therefore - for my application (which I shouldn't need to point out) - they are in fact, pointless and annoying.

I don't play music where 1/10th of a second of gap is going to cause feedback. If that were the case, I'd actually do something to my pickups (like lower them) if it were such an issue. I've never had a problem playing acoustic gigs either, even without a pickup - so for me - for my application - I've never actually had a need.

Trust me when I say I've listened to enough distorted music. I'm actually a converted metalhead so you're preaching to the initiated already. Last night I was listening to Sunn 0))) and the other night I put Cryptopsy on just to see if I could still listen to it given my shift in tastes. Trying to source a copy of 'Sol Niger Within'. I've listened to enough music that is heavily distorted and my conclusion is as follows:

High-gain distortion is great occasionally. Use it as the core of your tone and you're missing a lot of the subtleties of what can be an incredibly complex instrument. Hell, David Gilmour uses a LOT of distortion on his 'famous' tone (listen to it closely) and a LOT of compression as well as delay. Sure, he might use a noise gate, but that's about the worst situation for feedback there can be and he plays stadia. I'm not playing the same kind of guitar as him - I don't need a noise gate.

Stop the aggressive attitude and start reading.
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  #58  
Old 01-26-2009, 03:46 PM
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Good God you do get rather defensive don't you?

If you actually read what I say, I don't think they're pointless, I just think that for - my application - they are actually rather pointless. I shouldn't have to put down 'in my opinion' you should already assume that. I don't find a need for them. And if you'd read what I put earlier as well, then you'd also realise that I don't want a perfect crisp sound a lot of the time - therefore - for my application (which I shouldn't need to point out) - they are in fact, pointless and annoying.

I don't play music where 1/10th of a second of gap is going to cause feedback. If that were the case, I'd actually do something to my pickups (like lower them) if it were such an issue. I've never had a problem playing acoustic gigs either, even without a pickup - so for me - for my application - I've never actually had a need.

Trust me when I say I've listened to enough distorted music. I'm actually a converted metalhead so you're preaching to the initiated already. Last night I was listening to Sunn 0))) and the other night I put Cryptopsy on just to see if I could still listen to it given my shift in tastes. Trying to source a copy of 'Sol Niger Within'. I've listened to enough music that is heavily distorted and my conclusion is as follows:

High-gain distortion is great occasionally. Use it as the core of your tone and you're missing a lot of the subtleties of what can be an incredibly complex instrument. Hell, David Gilmour uses a LOT of distortion on his 'famous' tone (listen to it closely) and a LOT of compression as well as delay. Sure, he might use a noise gate, but that's about the worst situation for feedback there can be and he plays stadia. I'm not playing the same kind of guitar as him - I don't need a noise gate.
Well you're beginning to sound rather defensive. Yes i did see what you said about not wanting to hear a crisp perfect sound. But it's not even just high gain where you get feedback, I can't avoid feedback on distortion when we're practicing because we're playing in a 4x3m room and the amp is on a very high volume just so I can hear the thing. Therefore even if i didn't have it on high gain it would still produce a lot of feedback. But i do have it on high gain because i play metal and i live in a city full of metal music and that's what we do. If you play david gilmour, good for you. That's what i said.

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Stop the aggressive attitude and start reading.
I've read every word you've put down on here so why don't you just stop jumping to conclusions? The fact is that 90% of emotions cannot be expressed in words alone. Therefore if you think i'm being "agressive" then maybe it's because that's what you want to think?
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  #59  
Old 01-26-2009, 06:29 PM
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No, you're being needlessly aggressive and rude. I've not seen it on this forum for the nearly five years I've been on and this would be the first time.

Why, if you're in such a small room, are you playing so loud? Can you hear the other instruments? Are you wearing hearing protection?
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Old 01-26-2009, 07:59 PM
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How did we get into an argument about noise gates in a drum forum?
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:08 PM
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  #61  
Old 01-26-2009, 08:09 PM
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No, you're being needlessly aggressive and rude. I've not seen it on this forum for the nearly five years I've been on and this would be the first time.

Why, if you're in such a small room, are you playing so loud? Can you hear the other instruments? Are you wearing hearing protection?
It's a simple thing called a band practice. Oh well i'm sorry if you think i'm being aggresive but at the end of the day i've already said, you see what you want to see really. Have you not seen people be rude on here? I have.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:15 PM
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Those people have a habit of...disappearing...
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:38 PM
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Those people have a habit of...disappearing...
Like Stalin and his purges.

If the amps were feedbacking that bad (and yes, I have been in quite a few bands) even in an enclosed space - I would suggest that you need to check your volume levels. It's not a gig, it's band practice.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:36 PM
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Like Stalin and his purges.

If the amps were feedbacking that bad (and yes, I have been in quite a few bands) even in an enclosed space - I would suggest that you need to check your volume levels. It's not a gig, it's band practice.
Well it does. It does so even at relatively low volumes so that's not really the problem.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:28 AM
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What sort of distance separates your pickups from your strings? Too close and that might explain a few things.
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:05 PM
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I must admit that I've had this problem when recording the guitarist in my band at reasonably low volumes (lower than at a practise). After a certain amount of gain the distance will matter less and less, I suppose.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:26 PM
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What sort of distance separates your pickups from your strings? Too close and that might explain a few things.
No they're not too close to the strings, and it happened with both my guitars. I really don't see what your big gripe with noise gates is anyway. It really helps me with both my recordings and live playing so it's good. I appreciate you know a lot about audio and that you're trying to help me with my feedback, but honestly, i don't need any.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:47 PM
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If you want a way to spend a LOT of money and never run out of things to buy, I have one word for you...

...recording.
Holy cow, you ain't even kidding. I inadvertently infected my bassist with the recording bug and he totally ran with it. He's now at the point where he's decided that it is the profession he wants to do for the rest of his life (he's currently a HS art teacher in North Miami). The way he put it was, "there have only been a couple of times in my life where i have felt that this was something i was SUPPOSED to do". I tried warning him not to fall into the same trap that sucked in another friend of mine who owns a recording studio, where he would forego taking a paycheck in lieu of getting more gear. But I'm just as guilty. I just got back my tax refund and i'm thinking, "man i could get a 4 channel SSL alpha vhd now!". But i don't NEED it. I've already got 8 channels of presonus pre's and 8 channels of focusrite pre's. But then i'd have to get a sennheiser 421 some akg cs-1000's more 57's, mogami cables for all, waves platinum plug-ins, genelec monitors, upgrade to P/T HD, cet a c24 control surface, more auralex, more more more more... Gotta draw the line somewhere.
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