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  #41  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Even for me at 5' 00", that looks really cramped. How do you wind up to hit anything? I have most of my stuff out a bit because I like a nice big swing when I go big dynamically. There's a Billy Ward video where he talks about how drummers stay in their safe spaces, then when it comes time for a big fill (or a fill in general), they have to stretch out, and then no longer feel safe, and this slight trepidation screws up the time, and I think he hit the nail on the head for a lot of drummers I've seen. You should check out his "Big Time" video, he touches on all those set-up aspects and how to feel comfortable.

I just learned from watching someone like Tony Williams play - he's not a huge guy, but his kit is big, and the way he sits it's like he's standing up, but he gets this huge sound and he has no problem flying around the kit.
It does looked cramped, doesn't it? I'm still figuring this out. I'm sure it will evolve as I play more. Right now I don't "wind up" to hit anything, LOL! Thanks for the video suggestion.


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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
...Dragonfly, rotate your snare feet so they are a triangle pointing toward you. It will get the left out of the way of the hi hat pedal. Then if you want you can rotate the hi hat stand inward just a bit so the pedal is more where your foot wants. It won't be perfectly straight under your foot, but would reduce your stretch a bit.
Thanks for the suggestion on the snare feet and hi-hat, I'll give it a try.
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  #42  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Jojo Mayer has an interesting approach.
The 10" on the other side of the floor tom. This tell me the 10" isn't important to Jojo because the further out a drum or cymbal is the less priority is has. I guess it thought about going this route I would just eliminate the 10 altogether.
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  #43  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Wow, nice kit and cymbals. That looks ergonomic but tight, almost nothing going on in the right side. If you finished a fill at the floor tom there is no crash there. Your snare stand feet could collapse a little and give more room for your bass drum foot.
That said, every body is different, and I think it takes time to tweak a new setup and get one's body working around it. Definitely a change from 4 piece to 5 piece.
I had the crash to the right of the ride, but moved it for easier (ergonomic) access, BUT I do see your point about a fill finish.

I need to get a low profile snare stand. The feet are super wide on my current snare stand in order to lower the snare drum to a comfortable position.

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Originally Posted by Winston_Wolf View Post
I'd invest in a couple of cymbal stands. It's an awful lot to ask of a stand to fly two toms, a splash and two crashes.

One, it's really negatively affecting crash placement, and two, it forces you to have the leg spread on the tom stand really wide, preventing you from moving the stand closer to the right.
There is only the small splash and one crash, not two crashes. The stand itself is a TAMA stand that is sturdy so I have full confidence it can take it, but you are right, the crash placement is sucking right now. I got the TAMA stand so that I could do the two toms and two cymbals. I'm living and learning :D
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2019, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by dragonfly66 View Post
This is good to hear, thank you for sharing.

You are right about that. All of this is weird, so I'm trying to listen to my body and let it tell me when something isn't right. My knees scream right away, but my back and shoulders take a little longer to let me know.
Stop experimenting and get a qualified instructor now and start taking lessons. There is no reason why you should feel any pain. That’s not normal.

Ps. If your knees hurt, try raising the throne and play heel down.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2019, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

that new setup looks pretty tight and compact to me.
I would make just a couple small tweaks, but that looks pretty good to me.
As mentioned by someone else, I'd reduce the spread of the snare legs, and have one leg pointed towards you. Stands are always more stable if one leg is aimed towards the throne.
I'd move the second crash over top of the ride a little more, maybe 4" to the right and back a bit towards you, and I'd move the floor tom about two inches further out to the right, just for a touch more space for your leg.
I usually put my 12" tom about a fingers width above the bass drum, that might allow you to shift the high toms just a touch more to the right, which might help bring your hi hat closer to where you like it.
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  #46  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by whiteknightx View Post
that new setup looks pretty tight and compact to me.
I would make just a couple small tweaks, but that looks pretty good to me.
As mentioned by someone else, I'd reduce the spread of the snare legs, and have one leg pointed towards you. Stands are always more stable if one leg is aimed towards the throne.
I'd move the second crash over top of the ride a little more, maybe 4" to the right and back a bit towards you, and I'd move the floor tom about two inches further out to the right, just for a touch more space for your leg.
I usually put my 12" tom about a fingers width above the bass drum, that might allow you to shift the high toms just a touch more to the right, which might help bring your hi hat closer to where you like it.
I adjusted the toms again last night and they are higher, a little less than a fingers width. They are more reachable and the angle at which I hit them is better. Didn't seem like making them higher would be better, but it is. Now that the rack toms are in a good place I'm not as bothered by the hi-hat placement.

I moved the cymbals some too. Changed up Crash 1 and the Splash to make that situation a little less awkward on the stand. I also already did what you said with the second crash.

Until I get a low profile snare stand I won't be able to do much about reducing the spread of the snare stand legs, because it will cause the snare to be too high. I do have the one leg towards the throne now though.

I did push the floor tom out because my sticks weren't hitting it in the middle on the head. It feels much better after the move.

When I sit now I can reach everything and hit all of the cymbals properly. I'll use this setup this weekend and see how it goes.
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  #47  
Old 01-04-2019, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

If you are mechanically inclined, you could save money by modifying the snare stand. All you would really need is a pipe cutter to shorten the tubes. They are easily found at any hardware store in the plumbing section. I have done this before with great success.
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  #48  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Glad you're dialing things in. It takes a while, sometimes, to find out what you want. Or need. Fortunately, there are a lot of options available, as far as gear goes.
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  #49  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
If you are mechanically inclined, you could save money by modifying the snare stand. All you would really need is a pipe cutter to shorten the tubes. They are easily found at any hardware store in the plumbing section. I have done this before with great success.
I was thinking about this! Good to know it has been done before. I'll try that out. AWESOME!
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  #50  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Exercise caution when cutting the bottom tube. If you cut it to short you may not be able to collapse the stand.
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  #51  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Exercise caution when cutting the bottom tube. If you cut it to short you may not be able to collapse the stand.
Yes, definitely measure this first. Also, you want to use the cutter that is a wheel and rotates around the tube. The ones that look like pliers will pinch the tube out of round. Some light filing around the cut might be needed. The cutting wheel will flair the tube ever so slightly. Any metal file will fix this. In like a minute. It really is that miniscule.
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  #52  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by ineedaclutch View Post
Exercise caution when cutting the bottom tube. If you cut it to short you may not be able to collapse the stand.
oooh thanks for the warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Yes, definitely measure this first. Also, you want to use the cutter that is a wheel and rotates around the tube. The ones that look like pliers will pinch the tube out of round. Some light filing around the cut might be needed. The cutting wheel will flair the tube ever so slightly. Any metal file will fix this. In like a minute. It really is that miniscule.
Got it!
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  #53  
Old 01-06-2019, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

I would just take it to a machine shop. You'll get it done cheaper than the cost of a good quality cutter.
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  #54  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

If you don't have a pipe cutter you could cut it with a small hacksaw in a few seconds then file, grind, sand, or rub it on a brick to make it smooth. I've done that with DW dog bones, snare stands, and cymbal stands a few times. You're going to put the collar back on so you won't see the cut anyway.
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  #55  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

If you don't mind me saying so here, I think the idea of the two off-set toms is flawed. And the number one reason is because it causes you to push your hi-hat a little farther out of the way than would be comfortable, just so you can have a drum in there that you'll only use maybe 15% of the time. And you'll be using your hi-hat at least 90% of the time.

So the idea is to have the instruments you'll be using more, in a comfortable spot. And then everything else follows around those. So, bass drum, snare drum, hi-hat, and ride cymbal, need to be where they are comfortable for you.

Your feet and legs shouldn't have to be doing anything strange to be on the pedals. Sitting on your throne shouldn't be too different from how you would sit correctly in a chair, or on a stool. Once you accomplish the proper placement of those four pieces, everything falls in around those, and you will be in ergonomic nirvana.
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  #56  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

I'm still waiting for DF66 to post a pic of her set with the toms mounted on the bass drum.
Taking the lift off should have been all that was necessary,
to get those toms at the same height as the tom was on her bop kit.
The hi hat could be moved into the normal spot and all would be fine.
Maybe she'll get around to it on the next try - ha ha.
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  #57  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
If you don't mind me saying so here, I think the idea of the two off-set toms is flawed. And the number one reason is because it causes you to push your hi-hat a little farther out of the way than would be comfortable, just so you can have a drum in there that you'll only use maybe 15% of the time. And you'll be using your hi-hat at least 90% of the time.

So the idea is to have the instruments you'll be using more, in a comfortable spot. And then everything else follows around those. So, bass drum, snare drum, hi-hat, and ride cymbal, need to be where they are comfortable for you.

Your feet and legs shouldn't have to be doing anything strange to be on the pedals. Sitting on your throne shouldn't be too different from how you would sit correctly in a chair, or on a stool. Once you accomplish the proper placement of those four pieces, everything falls in around those, and you will be in ergonomic nirvana.
I was thinking about this very thing, that the hi-hat is far more important to the kit than having a second tom. It is the reason why I'm still leaning toward a one up one down set up.

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Originally Posted by ineedaclutch View Post
If you don't have a pipe cutter you could cut it with a small hacksaw in a few seconds then file, grind, sand, or rub it on a brick to make it smooth. I've done that with DW dog bones, snare stands, and cymbal stands a few times. You're going to put the collar back on so you won't see the cut anyway.
Had planned to use a hack saw, since that is what we have on hand.

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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I'm still waiting for DF66 to post a pic of her set with the toms mounted on the bass drum.
Taking the lift off should have been all that was necessary,
to get those toms at the same height as the tom was on her bop kit.
The hi hat could be moved into the normal spot and all would be fine.
Maybe she'll get around to it on the next try - ha ha.
You may get your wish if I ultimately go back to the one up one down setup. I dont want two toms above the bass drum because I want the ride in that right spot.

Last edited by dragonfly66; 01-07-2019 at 07:14 PM.
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  #58  
Old 01-07-2019, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by dragonfly66 View Post
.....
You may get your wish if I ultimately go back to the one up one down setup. I dont want two toms above the bass drum because I want the ride in that right spot.

All I'm saying is keep an open mind and don't dismiss the idea before you've tried it.
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  #59  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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All I'm saying is keep an open mind and don't dismiss the idea before you've tried it.
Got it!
....................
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  #60  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Jon Fishamn of Phish is 5'3. He plays a very tight setup. Type his name into google images and you'll find a lot.

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  #61  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

also, get a rack! that might solve all your issues.

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  #62  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

I don't think she has enough goodies to fuss with a rack. She seems to be OK after losing the bass drum riser.
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  #63  
Old 01-08-2019, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Wow, that rack is hideous!

So I'm getting used to the offset setup. My biggest issue so far is the hi-hat being so far away. A couple of times I've not gotten enough of it and my stick ended up under it.

It seems that there isn't a perfect setup, just the one that has the least compromises. With the offset I sacrifice the hi-hat placement and a less comfortable stance. The over the bass drum setup sacrifices the ride placement and a bit of ergonomics. So far the offset hasn't been terribly hard to get used to. I'm practicing and not hurting myself. I've gotten used to the stance, but missing or almost missing the hi-hats is not good.

I'll be playing the offset setup for the rest of the week. Next week I'm going to try 2 up over the bass drum using a method I found in another forum on placing the ride cymbal over the second tom so the reach isn't much more than if it was over the bass drum. Might even give the Vector bass drum pedal a try to be a turned a little more to the right. Might be the best option, IF I stick with two toms, no wide stance, the hi-hat is back where it belongs, body more open to the right side.
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  #64  
Old 01-08-2019, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Jeremy "Bean" Clemons has an interesting set-up.
And he play's it here ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dSKx7_4nbM
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  #65  
Old 01-08-2019, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
If you don't mind me saying so here, I think the idea of the two off-set toms is flawed. And the number one reason is because it causes you to push your hi-hat a little farther out of the way than would be comfortable, just so you can have a drum in there that you'll only use maybe 15% of the time. And you'll be using your hi-hat at least 90% of the time.

So the idea is to have the instruments you'll be using more, in a comfortable spot. And then everything else follows around those. So, bass drum, snare drum, hi-hat, and ride cymbal, need to be where they are comfortable for you.

Your feet and legs shouldn't have to be doing anything strange to be on the pedals. Sitting on your throne shouldn't be too different from how you would sit correctly in a chair, or on a stool. Once you accomplish the proper placement of those four pieces, everything falls in around those, and you will be in ergonomic nirvana.
I very often play with tom on a separate stand, I've done so since the 90's. I have to disagree with you assertion ; it doesn't push the hihat farther at all.
At least as long as you use a twin pedal.
I played this with 12 and 13 (or 10 and 12), I push the stand the closer as possible to the bass drum, and really, it brings the 13 closer to the center of the BD than the 12" would be on a bass mount.
The thing it does is bringing the ride closer and placing the 12" right under the crash.
The first time I done so, it was to replicate the twin BD placement and it worked really well.




Last edited by Tamaefx; 01-08-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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  #66  
Old 01-08-2019, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by Tamaefx View Post
I very often play with tom on a separate stand, I've done so since the 90's. I have to disagree with you assertion ; it doesn't push the hihat farther at all.
At least as long as you use a twin pedal.
I played this with 12 and 13 (or 10 and 12), I push the stand the closer as possible to the bass drum, and really, it brings the 13 closer to the center of the BD than the 12" would be on a bass mount.
The thing it does is bringing the ride closer and placing the 12" right under the crash.
The first time I done so, it was to replicate the twin BD placement and it worked really well.
Thanks for the photos. In most offset and double bass diagrams I've seen the drummer and snare are centered in front of the toms. In your photo it appears this is not the case. With the toms centered in front of the snare my hi hat MUST move to the left otherwise it hits the left tom.

Below is the bop setup I had before and the ergonomic setup I'm using now. The hi-hat had to move for me. Though the ergonomic diagram shows the hi-hat overlapping with the snare a bit this is not the case with me. I have 14" hi-hats and if the hi-hat was that close to my snare my knee would be forward of my ankle, which is bad.



The reason the setup is centered is to provide a natural stance on the bass drum and hi hat pedals. So my placement choices are around my natural stance. I could move my hi-hat closer to me, but that prevents my stance from being natural and the angle of my legs - specifically my knee being forward of my ankle - puts undue stress on my joints.

Last edited by dragonfly66; 01-08-2019 at 10:29 PM.
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  #67  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Jeremy "Bean" Clemons has an interesting set-up.
And he play's it here ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dSKx7_4nbM
That is a wild setup. I got an overhead shot. Super tight.
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  #68  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

If you look at Tamefx's setup he has offset toms, BUT everything is tight because his tom level is sitting higher than yours, and more tilt, thats why he could tighten them in. His far tom is essentially at or above the level of the high hat, whereas your early pic was not. You see many drummers doing this who have toms off to the left, as they have to go up higher (see the drummer from Phish in pic).
By all means try anything, thats why equipment comes with all these options. Just for stability though, if you have a bass drum mount, didi you try to get your 12 hanging centered over the BD on that. That would free up your stand the 10 is hanging on.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

There is always the option of mounting the 13 on a stand and setting it up next to the floor tom, as per the diagram. This would solve many of your issues with tom placement, ride location, and foot spread.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
If you look at Tamefx's setup he has offset toms, BUT everything is tight because his tom level is sitting higher than yours, and more tilt, thats why he could tighten them in. His far tom is essentially at or above the level of the high hat, whereas your early pic was not. You see many drummers doing this who have toms off to the left, as they have to go up higher (see the drummer from Phish in pic).
By all means try anything, thats why equipment comes with all these options. Just for stability though, if you have a bass drum mount, didi you try to get your 12 hanging centered over the BD on that. That would free up your stand the 10 is hanging on.
I get Tamefx's setup. The toms are moved more to the right and that allows the hi-hat to be closer to the snare. And this can be done because the toms are raised much higher than the bass drum.

The point of having the toms in front of the snare is access so moving the toms to the right of the snare goes away from the ergonomic setup I was going for. However, I think with something like a Vector pedal that allows your bass drum foot to be in a natural position while your body is more open to the right side of the kit this would work for me.

Once I get the Vector pedal I'll try something like Tamefx's setup which seems like a good in-between the full offset and mounting both toms over the bass drum. I also wanted to try a setup with the Vector that I saw where the toms were over the bass drum and the placement of the ride was over the second tom, though I think I'd prefer Tamefx's setup.
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  #71  
Old 01-09-2019, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Yes, my toms are as high and angled as if they were on a bass mount. The tom Tripod is as close as it can be to the bass drum. My snare and Hihat are at the exact same position as if I was playing the toms over the bass drum (I play indifferently both set ups.)
I do so for two reasons : having the biggest tom in front of me. And to bring the ride closer.
The pic below was with 12 13 16 setup - with cymbals too high !!! The SD and the hihat are in the normal position, the only thing I moved from the normal position was the cowbell.



I'm not very tall either (1,71 mètre ; 5,6 ft), I don't understand all the trouble the OP goes through ; I played power toms over 22" almost all my drumming life.

Last edited by Tamaefx; 01-09-2019 at 02:57 PM.
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  #72  
Old 01-09-2019, 06:15 PM
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Troy McClure Troy McClure is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

I'm 5'7 and was always trying to get my toms as low as possible, and flat. Even bought a 20in bass drum to facilitate this, but I found I was always reaching (even if only a little) for my toms which, after a bit of playing, would cause pain in my lower back. Then I stumbled on a video by Bob Gatzen where he talks about bringing the drums to you, so you are not reaching. Dave Weckle also mentions how before he sets up his toms he air drums a fill without moving his back, and that is where you want the toms to be. I followed these two principles, my toms have come up and angled (so that when your stick hits the head they are almost parallel to each other) and I now play a 24in bass drum with room to spare between it and the 12in tom, and the back pain has disappeared.
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  #73  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:58 PM
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Tamaefx Tamaefx is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Dragonfly 66, you're making things too complicated, I think. I don't see the use of a specific pedal (the vector). When you play concert, backline kit you don't have the time to adjust everything, you need to adapt quickly. Your kit is bloody nice, with a 20" bass and shallow toms, a good start.
During the 80's 90's people not taller than you could play power toms over 22 or 24 BD. This wasn't ideal but they manage.
Try to bring your Tom stand closer to the bass drum so that the lower rim is just over the highest part of the bass shell, and angle the toms. Flat toms are fashionable but it's not for everyone.

Looking from the picture you sent :
Joking aside but get a carpet :) - bloody nice kit with great cymbals.
Everything seems "on" the drummer : floor tom is too close, the crashes are too low, you can't have power if they're that low. The racks are way too low, they're below your hats, and too much off-set.

Last edited by Tamaefx; 01-10-2019 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:57 AM
wildbill
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  #74  
Old 01-10-2019, 04:47 PM
kamel2500 kamel2500 is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

In the event that you take a gander at Tamefx's setup he has balanced toms, BUT everything is tight on the grounds that his tom level is sitting higher than yours, and more tilt, that is the reason he could fix them in. His far tom is basically at or over the dimension of the high cap, while your initial pic was definitely not. You see numerous drummers doing this who have toms off to one side, as they need to go up higher (see the drummer from Phish in pic).

By all methods have a go at anything, that is the reason hardware accompanies every one of these choices. Only for security however, on the off chance that you have a bass drum mount, didi you endeavor to get your 12 balancing focused over the BD on that. That would free up your stand the 10 is holding tight.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:41 PM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Probably the tightest 2U offset setup I’ve seen recently. HH is definitely not pushed out like some. This setup has a 22” BD.
https://youtu.be/hgyzni6qFTA
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  #76  
Old 01-10-2019, 09:53 PM
kamel2500 kamel2500 is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottliver View Post
Please get a 4x8 rug and put it under your rig. Once you get it setup nice and comfy you can use tape to mark off the layout and have a reference for when you need to move your gear. Plus the kit won’t run away from you. Videoder Tubemate Snaptube

You are on the right track to though. Please don’t worry about keeping your toms flat. Mount them back on your bass drum and angle them 30ish degrees or so. Now you can lower them to a comfortable height and strike them with efficiently without hitting the rims - unless of course you want to!

You are going to want to move your floor tom leg away from your bass drum pedal.

Ps, I’m 5’7” so not much difference.....
I keep thinking about this setup. I just tried it.

So using the bass drum mount for the 12" does allow me to get back to my natural stance with just a tad bit of the 10" drum covered. This feels so much better to me. The 10" can only go so high before it hit the hi-hats. The 12" can only go so low before hitting the bass drum. So the 10" and 12" are not at the same height, which seems awkward. The only way to remedy this is to push the hi-hat back out so the 10" can be lifted. The 12" cannot go any lower on the bass drum mount. This puts me back to the wider stance when both toms were on the dedicated mount.
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  #77  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:40 PM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Using one up one down would work, and so would one up two down. Peace and goodwill.
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  #78  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:11 AM
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dragonfly66 dragonfly66 is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

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Originally Posted by Drumolator View Post
Using one up one down would work, and so would one up two down. Peace and goodwill.
Thank you, I'm attempting to use two up now. I was using a 1 up 1 down bop kit, which is totally comfortable. Now I have a kit with two toms and am trying to figure out the best way forward with the two toms. If all else fails I'll be back to 1 up 1 down, but I think I've found my way with all of the suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
I'm 5'7 and was always trying to get my toms as low as possible, and flat. Even bought a 20in bass drum to facilitate this, but I found I was always reaching (even if only a little) for my toms which, after a bit of playing, would cause pain in my lower back. Then I stumbled on a video by Bob Gatzen where he talks about bringing the drums to you, so you are not reaching. Dave Weckle also mentions how before he sets up his toms he air drums a fill without moving his back, and that is where you want the toms to be. I followed these two principles, my toms have come up and angled (so that when your stick hits the head they are almost parallel to each other) and I now play a 24in bass drum with room to spare between it and the 12in tom, and the back pain has disappeared.
Thank you for sharing, I have been changing things around and I'm finding this very thing, that the toms being higher and angled makes them more accessible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamaefx View Post
Yes, my toms are as high and angled as if they were on a bass mount. The tom Tripod is as close as it can be to the bass drum. My snare and Hihat are at the exact same position as if I was playing the toms over the bass drum (I play indifferently both set ups.)
I do so for two reasons : having the biggest tom in front of me. And to bring the ride closer.
The pic below was with 12 13 16 setup - with cymbals too high !!! The SD and the hihat are in the normal position, the only thing I moved from the normal position was the cowbell.



I'm not very tall either (1,71 mètre ; 5,6 ft), I don't understand all the trouble the OP goes through ; I played power toms over 22" almost all my drumming life.
The "trouble" is this is all new to me. I have no idea what I'm doing and am trying to figure out the best setup for me. I've been reading different philosophies on setup and ergonomics. I came here to get some advice, which I've been given. I've been trying the different suggestions. Tamaefx, your setup is what I am trying now and it is the one I liked the most, because the hi-hat is closer, the floor tom is closer to the other toms. I was not able to get my 12 over the center of my bass drum with the double tom mount I have attached to my crash cymbal stand so I am using the bass drum mount to hold the 12 while the 10 is on the cymbal stand. The house was sleep when I changed things up so I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but sitting down and feeling everything out felt great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamaefx View Post
Dragonfly 66, you're making things too complicated, I think. I don't see the use of a specific pedal (the vector). When you play concert, backline kit you don't have the time to adjust everything, you need to adapt quickly. Your kit is bloody nice, with a 20" bass and shallow toms, a good start.
During the 80's 90's people not taller than you could play power toms over 22 or 24 BD. This wasn't ideal but they manage.
Try to bring your Tom stand closer to the bass drum so that the lower rim is just over the highest part of the bass shell, and angle the toms. Flat toms are fashionable but it's not for everyone.

Looking from the picture you sent :
Joking aside but get a carpet :) - bloody nice kit with great cymbals.
Everything seems "on" the drummer : floor tom is too close, the crashes are too low, you can't have power if they're that low. The racks are way too low, they're below your hats, and too much off-set.
I agree it seems I'm making it too complicated. This is mainly because all of this is new and I have so many sources of information and I'm trying to get it right and I don't want to hurt myself with the wrong setup. Your suggestions sounds like Tamaefx's setup and that is what I'm trying now. I had already moved the crashes and toms higher. The crashes really sound awesome (louder and crashier) up higher than they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamel2500 View Post
In the event that you take a gander at Tamefx's setup... on the off chance that you have a bass drum mount, didi you endeavor to get your 12 balancing focused over the BD on that. That would free up your stand the 10 is holding tight.
I have the bass drum mount now holding the 12" tom, positioned in the center of the bass drum. I essentially have Tamefx's setup now. I'll be tweaking it more tomorrow when I have a chance to play it properly.

Last edited by dragonfly66; 01-16-2019 at 12:02 AM.
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  #79  
Old 01-15-2019, 01:46 AM
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timmdrum timmdrum is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfly66 View Post
So using the bass drum mount for the 12" does allow me to get back to my natural stance with just a tad bit of the 10" drum covered. This feels so much better to me. The 10" can only go so high before it hit the hi-hats. The 12" can only go so low before hitting the bass drum. So the 10" and 12" are not at the same height, which seems awkward. The only way to remedy this is to push the hi-hat back out so the 10" can be lifted. The 12" cannot go any lower on the bass drum mount. This puts me back to the wider stance when both toms were on the dedicated mount.
I'd suggest putting both toms back on the stand, and not worry that the snare is exactly "between" them- on my rehearsal kit, I also have my toms on a stand like yours, but the 10" is directly up & in front of my snare. The 12" sits to the right of that, making my two-rack-tom setup kinda in-between your setup and having them mounted on the bass drum. I had to put the front leg of the cymbal stand between the BD and its left spur, but it works. I'll try to get a pic at rehearsal this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfly66 View Post
I think there is just no getting around the fact that there must be a wider stance when the toms are off set. I just have to play with the wider stance and see if I can get used to it.
Or, yes, this- keep them like they are, a somewhat symmetrical triangle with the toms & snare, and just widen your stance a smidge. Extra tip- don't feel like your BD has to look like the middle of your setup, or that it has to face directly forward. You can place *yourself* exactly forward if you want to, facing straight over your snare & the gap between the toms, and let the BD point out to the side, just like if it was a double-bass kit with the left BD missing. Nothing wrong with that.
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  #80  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:49 AM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: Struggles of Short Drummer and 5-Piece with Offset Toms

I say just set them up regular, two on the bass drum and get into the stretch. Like Said, I'm 5' 00", and I'm playing this: a 14x24 bass drum with 9x13 and 10x14 mounted on top. If I can do it, you can do it!
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