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  #1  
Old 11-24-2015, 04:02 PM
bearblastbeats bearblastbeats is offline
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Default Does size matter?

Lately I've been playing my newer Yamaha Stage Custom 10/12/14/20 set up with smaller cymbals to outfit the set up. I really enjoy being able to play the kit, not having it be super loud and I can actually hear all the voices from the assortment of cymbals I have.

I used to play an old 70's Ludwig 14/18/24, and it just seems that people were more impressed by that kit. I used a 24" ride and two 20" rides as crashes. Even though I do play with quality cymbals and the like, it was just a ton of noise and big loud crashy sounds.

Even still, I have some of my old metal friends asking me to play that set as it was a great set to play, but I feel I can still play just as well, and more coherently, with my new kit.

Are they just disillusioned by the size and how big and boomy it was? (It was a huge pain in the ass to set up and break down and also transport.)

Does size actually matter?
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I don't like big kits, playing them or transporting them. I don't think they are as musical as they are thuddy. Cymbals, same deal, not fussed on the big hats, big crash, big ride thing... I even bought a 16" crash the other day, never thought I'd do that again.

I'm in the "smaller is better" camp too.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I think size matters up to a certain point. For example, it's been my experience that a 18" kick is just not going to have the punch of a 22". With that said, I think the set you have now is very versatile. The 20" kick should be fine. The toms you have should cut through all of those amps really well given the right heads and tuning. They may not have the same "stage presence" that your bigger kit did, but who cares as long as it sounds good!
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I play a 24/13/16 with a 23" Sweet Ride, 21" Bash Ride and 15" Sweet Hats and while I really like my setup and it's great for the style of music I'm playing now it's not a universal setup, if I was to start playing country or poppier type stuff my cymbals (mainly the 23" Sweet Ride) probably wouldn't blend well.
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Depends on the music.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2015, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I use a 10 12 14 20 setup for everything from Funk to heavy rock and I love it. Smaller drums seem to have more punch and cut through better. If I rim shot the toms I can get a latin sound. Its just a personal thing but I find big toms flabby to play and step on the bass players frequencies more than the smaller sizes. I also play a 12" and a 14" crash and an 18* ride. Love them.As a side issue the smaller drums are easier to transport and store and the smaller cymbals are lighter to carry and more musical to my ears.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2015, 08:27 PM
bearblastbeats bearblastbeats is offline
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
I use a 10 12 14 20 setup for everything from Funk to heavy rock and I love it. Smaller drums seem to have more punch and cut through better. If I rim shot the toms I can get a latin sound. Its just a personal thing but I find big toms flabby to play and step on the bass players frequencies more than the smaller sizes. I also play a 12" and a 14" crash and an 18* ride. Love them.As a side issue the smaller drums are easier to transport and store and the smaller cymbals are lighter to carry and more musical to my ears.
my thoughts exactly. I think they all just want big and loud to muffle how terrible they play. Just kidding, kind of.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2015, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Depends on the tuning, too.

If you think of a drum's sweet spot as more of a range, then smaller drums are typically tuned to the lower end of it, and bigger drums to the higher end. That way they occupy a similar tonal range but a smaller drum will have more pitch bend and be fatter and wetter, whereas a larger drum will bend less and feel harder and more percussive under the stick. At that point it's just timbre preference.

But if big drums are used more for fashion and tuned low in the same way as smaller drums, they end up sounding thuddy and dead since that low end gets swallowed up in the mix. Hardly much point in that, IMO.

I prefer bigger sizes cranked up myself.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2015, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I think drums are the one musical instrument that seem to be influenced by the venue. Maybe "influenced" is not the correct term, but you know what I mean.
Your large kit would be good for a large venue, like 300 or more people in the audience. Your smaller kit would be better for a small night club, like 100 people or less.


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  #10  
Old 11-24-2015, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

No, size matters. Pop music is also visual and your little fusiony girlie man kit does not say "hairy rock n roll" like your bigger, manly kit. It's not all about what people hear. You'd be disappointed if Katy Perry didn't show off her cleavage, so she gives it to her fans, it doesn't matter if she doesn't sound good.

Personally, I like bigger sizes because I don't want to work that hard to kick the band.
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2015, 09:59 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
No, size matters. Pop music is also visual and your little fusiony girlie man kit does not say "hairy rock n roll" like your bigger, manly kit. It's not all about what people hear. You'd be disappointed if Katy Perry didn't show off her cleavage, so she gives it to her fans, it doesn't matter if she doesn't sound good.

Personally, I like bigger sizes because I don't want to work that hard to kick the band.
With bigger drums you have to work harder to "Excite" the air in them, thus its more effort. Why am I not surprised its a Californian American that thinks bigger must be better. Apologies Bo, just a joke.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2015, 11:28 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
With bigger drums you have to work harder to "Excite" the air in them, thus its more effort. Why am I not surprised its a Californian American that thinks bigger must be better. Apologies Bo, just a joke.
Especially one who's only 5-feet tall? Hahaha!

Actually, that effort to excite is negligible. Don't make it sound like a person doesn't need to make his heart beat a little harder ;)
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2015, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

If people were impressed with your 14/18/24 sized kit,
then if you get one twice as big, people will be twice as impressed.
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2015, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
If people were impressed with your 14/18/24 sized kit,
then if you get one twice as big, people will be twice as impressed.
I know I'd be impressed if I saw a 48" kick drum.
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2015, 01:59 AM
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2015, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I like big, but not too big.

I don't like crashes 16 or smaller. 17 is really pushing it. 18 and 19 is a good size for me. 22 or 24 inch rides. But I don't like 20+ crashes.

Drums same thing. I like 22 and 24 bass drums, I think 26 is a bit too much though. Toms, I like 'em at least 12, and my floors 16 at least.
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2015, 02:52 AM
chris J chris J is offline
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I want that drum set!

Seriously, one of my favourite rock drummers used to play a set with 12, 13 and 14X14 toms, 14 X 5 snare, 22 X 14" BD.
Cymbals were 22, 20, 16 and 14 with 14" hi hats.
A Small set, but he made it sound huge.

Ringo did some great work with a 12 & 14 tom, 20" BD and that Jazz fest snare.
He only used two cymbals, what else did he need?
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  #18  
Old 11-25-2015, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Tuning matters much more than size---too many drummers are obsessed with how the drums sound from the throne---the audience doesn't give a crap about sizes as long as there is a good beat to the music---a 22x14" bass, a 12" tom, and a 16" floor is all you need---14" hats, 16" crash, 20" ride and you are good to go---if you can't take care of business with that you need more lessons! I have been playing guitar for 35+ years, and the drummer has never been the problem!
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  #19  
Old 11-25-2015, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

It all depends upon the music. An 18" K china might sound good in a funk band but would be inaudible in a metal band.

Liken it to a guitar player; you'll never see a Jackson at a folk/rock gig just as you won't see an ES335 with Godsmack.
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  #20  
Old 11-25-2015, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
The Chimp Magnet.........
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  #21  
Old 11-25-2015, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

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Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
The Chimp Magnet.........

LOL

Don't start that again!



Oh and BTW, for the OP - 10/12/14/20 is the correct size.
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  #22  
Old 11-25-2015, 03:26 PM
bearblastbeats bearblastbeats is offline
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Default Re: Does size matter?

So many LOLZ in this thread.

I'm just going to stick with my new kit and retire the ludwig, that horse has been ridden and its time to put it out to pasture.
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  #23  
Old 11-25-2015, 07:01 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearblastbeats View Post
So many LOLZ in this thread.

I'm just going to stick with my new kit and retire the ludwig, that horse has been ridden and its time to put it out to pasture.
Until you join a Zeppelin tribute band ;)
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2015, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Ya - for sure, don't sell it. Could be handy to have at times.
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  #25  
Old 11-25-2015, 07:56 PM
bearblastbeats bearblastbeats is offline
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Until you join a Zeppelin tribute band ;)
Bo - i could never! the luddy was my father's kit he bought back in the 70's. I wuold love to do a zep and sabbath band. Call it stairway to the grave or something!!!
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2015, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Maybe this thread got to me - LOL.

I've been having to talk myself down for two days from springing for a used shell pack I've seen in sizes 24x14/18x16/13x9/14x10.

I used to have a 22/13/14/16 for quite a few years, and when I discovered smaller drums in the 20/10/12/14 configuration, it was a revelation.
I couldn't believe how perfectly well they worked for me.

So what it was that gave me the itch for bigger drums again - I haven't a clue.

The 18" floor tom just looks stupidly huge to me now, but the 24x14 bass drum has some appeal. I've got a kit with an 18" bass drum for cryin' out loud, and it works just fine.

The whole idea is just half baked. I'd probably make a bass drum out of that 18" floor tom, and would probably never use the other toms mounted on the bass. They'd just be too high now after having gotten used to a comfortable
configuration. It'd be cool to use it as a bass/snare two piece though.
I don't care for the idea of using a 2nd snare stand for a tom either.

So - I guess I'll keep talking myself out of it, till this impractical idea passes - LOL
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2015, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I don't think size matters. Especially when miked. But the look of it may matter to some.

Maybe they think your 20" looks too small and wimpy and they want a burly 24" that dominates the stage. No mistaking us for some cheesy jazz outfit! No sir!
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2015, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

If you're playing aggressive electric music, yeah, bigger is probably better. Mostly for visuals in my experience. For everything else, I've found it takes a pretty intense sound engineering effort to not lose the extra frequencies for everything above a 20" kick. A huge 26 incher sounds incredible in isolation, but all the depth becomes mud in a group setting usually.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2015, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

David Silveria uses a 20" bass drum. We all know how mellow and non-aggressive the music he plays is.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2015, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearblastbeats View Post
Lately I've been playing my newer Yamaha Stage Custom 10/12/14/20 set up with smaller cymbals to outfit the set up. I really enjoy being able to play the kit, not having it be super loud and I can actually hear all the voices from the assortment of cymbals I have.

I used to play an old 70's Ludwig 14/18/24, and it just seems that people were more impressed by that kit. I used a 24" ride and two 20" rides as crashes. Even though I do play with quality cymbals and the like, it was just a ton of noise and big loud crashy sounds.

Even still, I have some of my old metal friends asking me to play that set as it was a great set to play, but I feel I can still play just as well, and more coherently, with my new kit.

Are they just disillusioned by the size and how big and boomy it was? (It was a huge pain in the ass to set up and break down and also transport.)

Does size actually matter?
From the general public? No chance.

I played a bop kit (18", 12 & 14") last night and the audience were reacting to it by dancing in the same way no doubt if it was a 24, 13, 16.

If you ask me if I would prefer a larger kit at a gig? Yes. The general public? I'm guessing wouldn't be able to 'feel' the difference, in my view.
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  #31  
Old 11-30-2015, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

OK - so I went and set them up and tried them out a little. Just standing up - no throne.

The 13 and 14 mounted toms were the size of my old ones.
So while they seemed extra large compared to what I've got now (10 & 12), they seemed familiar in an old fashioned way.
The 18" floor tom was ridiculously huge and flabby.
I flipped it on its side and gave it a few hits with a bass pedal - better. It could be useable as a bass drum.

The 24x14 bass drum was just killer though. So much more balls and volume.
I'd almost get the set just for that - except:
I came home and triggered up my small bass drum and layered a couple sounds in a Yamaha module.
Ran it into a small amp, and it was just as ballsy with a lot more sound options. Sounds pretty decent on its own too.
So it's a horse apiece on that front.

Bottom line - nice, but I guess I don't need it, or the extra space it would take.

.

Last edited by wildbill; 11-30-2015 at 10:07 PM.
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2015, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

FWIW, I crank the bejeesus out of my 18 floor and it never seems to get too high and annoying. Pretty sure there's no upper limit on how high to crank it, at least not one that I've found.

Just thought I'd toss that out there since I really don't like them tuned low either.
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2015, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Does size matter?

I spent a little time dialing in the bass drum, but didn't really bother with the 18 tom.
I guess if you cranked it up, like you say, it'd be a lot more useable.
I never really even cared all that much for my old 16 though - I'm hooked on 14's for floors now.
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