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  #81  
Old 11-23-2015, 06:47 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Originally Posted by ZLeyba View Post
Alright, big rant incoming.

I think a lot of this debate boils down to a few things.

The first issue is values, that is, what is important to you the player. Is having a bunch of drums, cymbals, and other things to hit in front of you more important than the quality of those items? I know players who opted for a big shell pack and buy cheaper cymbals because they know it's the best way to put what they feel they need in front of them. On the other end I've known players who will spend 2000 on three drums because having the best quality instrument is more important to them than having a bunch of things to hit. There isn't a problem with either way, it's just that both parties had to decide what was more important to them when they went to buy gear.

The next issue is the semantics, mainly the definition of what "high end" or "pro" really means. Honestly I consider anything that cost more than 1000 for three drums to be, at the very least, acceptable in virtually any circumstance. That being said, there are still benefits to spending more money, although some of the benefits may not matter in the context of a given player's values. So by that measure alone, most of us fall in the "Gear Matters" camp by virtue of using high/higher end equipment.

It is true that a well founded argument could made about the diminishing returns as you go higher up the price scale, but the reality of the matter is that all of the little benefits start to add up, especially if you are a working drummer. While a Gretsch Renown is perfectly fine for recording and playing out live, rigorous gigging, and tour, it's still a product mass produced in an overseas facility and it looks, sounds, and plays like every other drum off that line. There isn' much of an issue with that, but at a certain point many dedicated and professional players begin to want that "something special". The unique finishes, sizes, manufacturing techniques, and shell specifications produced by artisan drum makers from first world countries is a lot more than just some commodity piece you pick up from GC after work one day.

At the high end of the price scale, its not necessarily that the drums sound or play "better", rather it is that they become a unique piece of art unto themselves. They represent more than just a drum kit, they are the manifestation of years of dedication and sacrifice of time and money into the thing you love. Its the sort of purchase made by players who treat drumming and music as a lifestyle. If you're going to be spending between 2-8 hours a day 5 days-a-week behind the drums, better to make sure every aspect of that kit is comfortable and enjoyable than let anything frustrating seep in to your playing from the gear end.
Well, perhaps.

I know artists want something special and unique, which justifies the aesthetics of a kit, but in the end my point was about build quality. And I know, a lot of you in the "the gear doesn't matter" camp, aren't working as much as you'd like. Once you get to the point where you're out in it three or four nights a week, years could go by before anything breaks on that top-flight DW kit you spent $6000 for. But if you go out with a $1500 Pearl Vision, you may find bits and pieces falling apart a lot sooner. I know when I'm working my regular job, and then playing out three nights in a week, I do not have time to be dealing with a stripped part or having to replace something.

Also, you may not be the one moving and taking care of your gear. As a sound engineer, I've seen plenty of drumsets just show up at a venue and we'll set it up, or at least get close. When you have a bunch of stage techs doing construction work, it's kind of a shame when the drums are considered part of the construction backdrop, and those stagehands may or may not be the most delicate on musical instruments, but that's how it works for us. Even dealing with provided backline instruments, those are not treated well either. Throw 'em on a stage that can get as hot as 100-degrees under the stage lights, and then the temperature change when the lights go out and the drums are sitting there waiting to be struck, wreaks havoc in the short term.

So, if you're moving your own stuff around and can keep up with whatever issues it may be developing, that's cool. I've been doing local gigs for over 30 years now and I never let 'stuff breaking down' be an excuse as to why something's not happening. It just helps me be professional.
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  #82  
Old 11-23-2015, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Originally Posted by Ghostnote View Post
I'm not talking about what one kit sounds like acoustically next to another. What I said was that in a live setting the sound man and PA trumps the quality of the kit. Sure, a high quality kit would sound better than an entry level kit if both were running through the same system with the same guy behind the board, but an entry level kit with a good system and sound man beats a great kit with a crappy system and sound man everytime.
I would add that it matters little to none for the typical audience member who would have no idea what kit sounded better, especially in a live venue. For most people, it all sounds the same.

I would also ask if there really is such a thing as "better" sounding gear. Here again, it depends on the music. Violent Femmes were a busking band that continued to sound like a busking band after they got signed, and I'd say this sort of music can be accomplished with some really cheap gear (and likely was). The audience didn't care a whit about the quality of the gear. They were there because they loved the songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra8VTlXVqUQ

Similarly, Nirvana's song "Polly" was recorded with an acoustic guitar that Cobain bought in a pawn shop for $30. I assume he used it for the track because it gave him the sound he was looking for. If the song were re-recorded with a high-end Martin guitar, it just wouldn't sound right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scmOYyBRdy8

I'm on board with the importance of quailty drum hardware for gigging, but sound-wise, the gear just needs to serve the music. Whether drums/cymbals sound good or bad is in the ear of the beholder.

Last edited by boomstick; 11-24-2015 at 12:26 AM.
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  #83  
Old 11-24-2015, 03:42 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomstick View Post
I would add that it matters little to none for the typical audience member who would have no idea what kit sounded better, especially in a live venue. For most people, it all sounds the same.

I would also ask if there really is such a thing as "better" sounding gear. Here again, it depends on the music. Violent Femmes were a busking band that continued to sound like a busking band after they got signed, and I'd say this sort of music can be accomplished with some really cheap gear (and likely was). The audience didn't care a whit about the quality of the gear. They were there because they loved the songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra8VTlXVqUQ

Similarly, Nirvana's song "Polly" was recorded with an acoustic guitar that Cobain bought in a pawn shop for $30. I assume he used it for the track because it gave him the sound he was looking for. If the song were re-recorded with a high-end Martin guitar, it just wouldn't sound right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scmOYyBRdy8

I'm on board with the importance of quailty drum hardware for gigging, but sound-wise, the gear just needs to serve the music. Whether drums/cymbals sound good or bad is in the ear of the beholder.
Yea, but the thread is more about durability and dependability than sonic minutia.
I still maintain that "good quality" hardware will not let you down, even playing 5 nights a week, and no it does not need to be top of the range mega buck stuff.
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  #84  
Old 11-24-2015, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Originally Posted by mikel View Post
Yea, but the thread is more about durability and dependability than sonic minutia.
I see my post as perfectly relatable to the points discussed in the original post. "Right tool for the job" was a phrase discussed verbatim in the OP, and was central to my comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
I still maintain that "good quality" hardware will not let you down, even playing 5 nights a week, and no it does not need to be top of the range mega buck stuff.
Didn't say it had to be top range, just meant that the cheapest stuff won't last long.
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  #85  
Old 11-24-2015, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

Let's just settle this.


It doesn't matter! ..or does it? muhahah:-)
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  #86  
Old 11-25-2015, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

[quote=Destroyer772;1396256]Not for sure what to make of that Paradiddle Pete , but thats a great crew of artist there. Notice i said artist the greats are artist and i cant even think on there level. I guess what I was trying to say I agree that it is a good Idea to buy the best quality of anything even if you have to wait for several years like I did." Destroyer " i was praising you, you got what you thought you needed. The photo is my attempt at Sarcasm being that these three Artists portray the quality's that their time enjoyed. Sadly things have changed and Artistry has lost a little of it's simple elegance. My prehistoric brain believes that all things emanate from the source so therefor having the best kit,hardware and cymbals is the way to go. I agree that P.A's and the like cancel out the sound source at an electronic level.But when buying an Acoustic instrument surely the most endearing aspect would be the sound quality. no?
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Last edited by paradiddle pete; 11-25-2015 at 03:50 AM.
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  #87  
Old 11-25-2015, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

Gene Krupa needed a good matchbox to play "Drum Boogie" :)
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  #88  
Old 11-25-2015, 02:47 AM
chris J chris J is offline
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

Worst.
Thread.
Ever.

Sorry.........!
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  #89  
Old 11-25-2015, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Worst.
Thread.
Ever.

Sorry.........!
So make a better one then.
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  #90  
Old 11-25-2015, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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So make a better one then.
It doesn't matter.?.....
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  #91  
Old 11-25-2015, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

On a somewhat related note, I got tired of the threads striping on my On Stage stands that I got from Guitar Center. I broke down and bought a K&M boom stand and haven't looked back. It cost about twice as much as the On Stage stand but it has lasted four years and should last for many more. You get what you pay for.
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  #92  
Old 11-25-2015, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Originally Posted by mikel View Post
Yea, but the thread is more about durability and dependability than sonic minutia.
I still maintain that "good quality" hardware will not let you down, even playing 5 nights a week, and no it does not need to be top of the range mega buck stuff.
Yamaha 7000 = done!
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  #93  
Old 11-25-2015, 12:47 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Yamaha 7000 = done!
Agreed. I find the 6000 range bombproof.
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  #94  
Old 11-25-2015, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

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Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
It doesn't matter.?.....
What the heck are you saying? I use Yamaha too.
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  #95  
Old 11-30-2015, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

Juts came across this video of my friend (and client) Christopher Williams, drummer for ACCEPT!, now on the Blind Rage 2015 tour.

Perfect for this thread, I think. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8XUUNs12U
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  #96  
Old 11-30-2015, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Gear DOES matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motleyh View Post
Juts came across this video of my friend (and client) Christopher Williams, drummer for ACCEPT!, now on the Blind Rage 2015 tour.

Perfect for this thread, I think. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8XUUNs12U
Also: https://youtu.be/YxuBfuWAtKc

It's worth reinforcing. ;-)

After pointing that out, it's true that it's a bad idea for Benny to go on tour with a SpongeBob toy drumkit. But it proves that it's also true that Benny can still sound like Benny on a SpongeBob toy drumkit. Yeah, the SQ2s make it easier, but it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian.
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