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  #1  
Old 03-15-2015, 04:38 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default German grip, which German?

So who was the German guy that invented German grip?

And the Frenchman who invented French grip?

And the American who invented American grip?

I question everything.

Can anyone prove that German grip was invented in Germany?

Doesn't anybody care about this stuff?

Well I do and I plan on getting to the bottom of it, so everybody out of my way!
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2015, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

I care Larry, so go get 'em!!! I'm pretty sure though it wasn't that German Dr. Grafenberg guy, he was busy with other . . . . ."things". So you can probably cross him off your list.
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Old 03-15-2015, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

OK not Dr. Grafenberg.

1 down, a hundred million to go.

I suspect that this grip originated in Poland, and when Germany conquered Poland, I believe they stole the title.

If I can prove this, my mission is to get the name changed to Polish grip.

:P
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Old 03-15-2015, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Doesn't anybody care about this stuff?

Can't say that I do. =\ I mean, knowing the origin isn't going to make me a better drummer....But I'll kindly get out of your way so you can figure it out.
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Old 03-15-2015, 06:46 PM
Derek Derek is offline
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Didn't I hear somewhere that the French grip was banned during the German occupation of France?
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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Didn't I hear somewhere that the French grip was banned during the German occupation of France?
That was french toast.

:P
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

The story I always heard was that it was because German timpanists usually played sitting down, and French timpanists played standing up.
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
That was french toast.

:P
Well, there I go again. I often confuse the two.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

The grip likely originated before Germany was Germany, likely back in the days of the Prussian empire. I guess "Germanic Grip" would be a more appropriate nomenclature.

The term "American Grip" is simply used to imply a marriage/bastardization/combination/hybrid of the two extremes.

The term "French Grip" is used due to the practitioner's need for so much butter, cheese, and wine.
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

I just Wiki'ed German grip. Matched grip came up. There is a reference to using German grip on the bass drum lol. Citation needed?

Ben that is an interesting tidbit. I'll have to see what I can find on that.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PQleyR View Post
The story I always heard was that it was because German timpanists usually played sitting down, and French timpanists played standing up.
There may be some truth to that. I know the French grip was developed for timpani, but I'm not sure about the German grip. One is a lighter touch, the other is heavy handed - according to national stereotype, you can guess which is which ;)
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

French and German are the names of timpani grips, and the way those things tend to go, each one was probably named by the opposite country, because it was something they hated. I know there's a type of paint that is kind of ugly, and is a real PITA to work with-- French painters called it Prussian Blue and German painters called it Paris blue. They probably did the same thing with venereal diseases.

The first place I ever heard the term "American" grip (which was never a timpani grip) used was in Jojo Mayer's video-- which makes sense. It's an appropriately European thing to a) name an informal, bastard grip after an informal, bastard people, and b) to need to have the thing be made officially OK by giving it a name in the first place.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2015, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
French and German are the names of timpani grips, and the way those things tend to go, each one was probably named by the opposite country, because it was something they hated. I know there's a type of paint that is kind of ugly, and is a real PITA to work with-- French painters called it Prussian Blue and German painters called it Paris blue. They probably did the same thing with venereal diseases.

The first place I ever heard the term "American" grip (which was never a timpani grip) used was in Jojo Mayer's video-- which makes sense. It's an appropriately European thing to a) name an informal, bastard grip after an informal, bastard people, and b) to need to have the thing be made officially OK by giving it a name in the first place.
OK so timpani predates snare drum then I'm assuming?

Pretty cool theory Todd. It seems very plausible. That might explain French kissing. Germans probably labeled that too, as boring as they are.

I can say that because I'm German.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2015, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

What, no grip for Canadia and Australia?
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2015, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
...French painters called it Prussian Blue and German painters called it Paris blue.
Also the name of a white supremacist singing duo. They ended up discovering marijuana and abandoned their racist ways. True story.

I am all for re-labeling German grip as Polish grip.
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  #16  
Old 03-15-2015, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

They are names of timpani grips. Any serious timpanist uses a combination of several grips depending on the sound that is required. Much like what most drumset players do.
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  #17  
Old 03-15-2015, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Besides orchestral and symphonic percussion there is the military influence.

This photo shows the different grips.



Tympani and snare playing styles dictate the grip styles. I guess these terms have been established apart from drumkit styles of playing regarding grip.
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2015, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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Originally Posted by TTNW View Post
I guess these terms have been established apart from drumkit styles of playing regarding grip.
I believe these terms were in-use long before the advent of the drumset came about. So yeah, they should be based on tympani and snare drum grips.
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2015, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Larry...I love you...but ....sometimes you over think stuff....kidding......:) be well my friend :)And ...winter is almost over............how great is that?

Steve B
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2015, 11:25 PM
bigd bigd is offline
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

If you ever get a chance to look at the book "the history of Timpani" give it a look. There are drawings of how they carried timpani drums into war mounted on the side of horses.
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2015, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Larry...I love you...but ....sometimes you over think stuff....kidding......:) be well my friend :)And ...winter is almost over............how great is that?

Steve B
This has already been established, and yes, I do over think stuff. Damn proud of it too lol. Come to think of it, where did the term over think come from???? Hmm....

I really just started it for a laugh, but I learned that tympani had a lot to do with it.

I don't mind being the idiot. Even though it is a little bit of a stretch lol.
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Last edited by larryace; 03-16-2015 at 01:15 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2015, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PQleyR View Post
The story I always heard was that it was because German timpanists usually played sitting down, and French timpanists played standing up.
No doubt so that they could run away faster.
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2015, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

I've been told that the grip names come from fencing styles (French and German that is). As for "American" grip, I think we just planted our flag on that one.
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2015, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
French and German are the names of timpani grips, and the way those things tend to go, each one was probably named by the opposite country, because it was something they hated. I know there's a type of paint that is kind of ugly, and is a real PITA to work with-- French painters called it Prussian Blue and German painters called it Paris blue. They probably did the same thing with venereal diseases.
That's true: Syphilis is called the "french disease" over here.
But actually the Italians gave it that name way before we did, when the French invaded Italy back in 1500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
The first place I ever heard the term "American" grip (which was never a timpani grip) used was in Jojo Mayer's video-- which makes sense. It's an appropriately European thing to a) name an informal, bastard grip after an informal, bastard people, and b) to need to have the thing be made officially OK by giving it a name in the first place.
I first heard the term "American Grip" in Ed Soph's video, but there were always plenty of Germans down in Texas.
I'm pretty sure Jojo didn't invent that name.
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Old 03-16-2015, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Pretty sure Jojo is above such things as racist thinking, given that he's
already lived all over the world in his childhood...
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2015, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griener View Post
I first heard the term "American Grip" in Ed Soph's video, but there were always plenty of Germans down in Texas.
I'm pretty sure Jojo didn't invent that name.
Well, it was a nice theory... it's still kind of fitting, even if it's BS.

I was kind of BSing with rest of my comment, too-- I always understood that French and German grips are so named because they were actually used by Fr and Ger timpanists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
OK so timpani predates snare drum then I'm assuming?
Yes, I believe timpani is an older instrument, and the grip names applied to the snare drum/drum set are borrowed from it. I've seen things from the 70s in which people refer to French/German grips in re: drum set, but they still say the names come from the timpani-- today everyone uses the words without mentioning that. It's kind of a picky thing, but people shouldn't think that there are a lot of elite French snare drummers running around playing a thumbs-up grip. People are now developing the grip on pad for use on the drumset, and have given it that name for convenience, but it's still not a "correct" alternative regular snare drum grip. Like, if I played that way in a lesson with Charles Dowd, or a drum corps rehearsal with Allan Kristensen, I would've been made to change my grip to some form of "German" grip. For all I know there could be a trend of concert snare drummers playing that way, but if so, it would be a new thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
Pretty sure Jojo is above such things as racist thinking, given that he's
already lived all over the world in his childhood...
What I was suggesting was kind of a cultural subtext-- I wasn't trying to read Jojo's thoughts.
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Old 03-16-2015, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Didn't want to imply anybody was a racist or something similar, sorry for that!
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  #28  
Old 03-19-2015, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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What, no grip for Canadia and Australia?
I call "American" grip Canadian grip.
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2015, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

I like to think that the american grip stems from holding KFC drumsticks.
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2015, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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I like to think that the american grip stems from holding KFC drumsticks.

Ossum!

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  #31  
Old 03-20-2015, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

If you roll your hand half way between the two, is that Belgian grip?...

Mark
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2015, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

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If you roll your hand half way between the two, is that Belgian grip?...
No, that's the Swiss Roll.
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: German grip, which German?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
French and German are the names of timpani grips, and the way those things tend to go, each one was probably named by the opposite country, because it was something they hated. I know there's a type of paint that is kind of ugly, and is a real PITA to work with-- French painters called it Prussian Blue and German painters called it Paris blue. They probably did the same thing with venereal diseases.
That makes me think of the Cor Anglais/English Horn (neither a horn nor English), and also some factoid (maybe apocryphal) that said the French Horn is from Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
OK so timpani predates snare drum then I'm assuming?
I think the snare drum dates from the 16th century...but the timpani was definitely a common orchestral instrument before the snare drum.
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