Make Your Own Kit vs. ??

RobertM

Platinum Member
With all this talk recently of custom kits versus all the Ludwig threads, I am wondering which is the better option:

a) have Precision Drum make me a jazz kit?

or

b) go with someone like Ludwig and get a Classic Maple bebop?

Has anyone had Precision Drum build them a kit or send them shells and lugs to build their own drum(s)? Quality good?

It seems like Precision Drum might be slightly more affordable, though the Classic Maples are nicely priced. Plus, Precision Drum would give you the option to use solid brass lugs, which might be an improvement on Ludwig's metal lugs.

Thoughts? Does Precision Drum do good work on bearing edges? Are the Ludwigs are comparatively better option?

Thanks!
 
The shells are the Keller shells that most custom companies use. They do some of the best bearing edges in the business from what I've read, and they are easy to deal with. Ludwig makes some of the best kits out there IMO. They both have vintage style mahogany/poplar/mahogany shells with rerings, and a maple series. The Keller shells may end up being cheaper and prettier, but you'll be missing that Ludwig vibe.
 
Precision Drum is very reliable; they do good work.

From my perspective, unless you're after the sound that the Keller shells they supply produce (which is quite good), there is little reason to "build" your own kit, unless you really enjoy assembling the drums, which is basically what you're doing. I mean, if they are giving you the shell, and cutting the edges, the hardest work is already done.

One other thing to keep in mind is that if you decide you want (or need) to sell the kit, Keller-shell kits typically have low resale value. I'm not sure what used Ludwig CM kits are going for, but given the revival of the product, I suspect you would have a better chance of recouping your costs.
 
Precision does GREAT work. Excellent, clean edges and holes. Wrap work is also excellent.
Very nice people too.
Their offerings on lugs was somewhat limited, but you don't have to buy those from them.
When you find one you like, just send one lug for hole spacing, and the type of spurs.

If you had them do work, you'll be very happy with it.
 
Count me in as voting for DIY.
I second Caddy's advice as well. Why go multi ply when 1 ply can be had just as affordably?
There's a certain amount of pride you will get from a DIY kit that you can't get from a mass produced kit.
In the end, 90% of your sound is heads and tuning anyway, why not save a few bucks and have a unique kit? It's a win/win from where I'm sitting.
You can always get a Ludwig kit down the road.
As soon as I can swing it, it's Vaughncraft for me, no contest.
 
I'm starting a new drum project right now. I have both the skills & the gear to put together my own kit (assuming getting someone else to make the shells), but I'm partnering with a drum builder instead. I know that sounds crazy, but what we're building is a one of a kind design, & requires multiple engineering sourcing options plus CAD. If I was making a standard construction, I'd go with the DIY method without hesitation.

I've had a really educating journey thus far. I've learnt a lot about how various shell designs & materials influence resultant sound. I'm traditionally a full on resonance guy, but I also like a kit with lowest fundamental tone capability. Unfortunately, the two are conflicting desires, so I'm cutting my own special path, & I'm fortunate to have found a builder who's unhinged enough to go with the flow.
 
Has anyone had Precision Drum build them a kit or send them shells and lugs to build their own drum(s)? Quality good?

I just built my own kit this summer. I didn't use Precision Drum, I went with a local company: AMDrumparts. Both are very similar in what they offer. The quality was good and I was very happy with the results. I was after a natural wood finish and couldn't really find what I wanted with the brand name kits - unless I wanted to drop alot of $$ on a high end kit.
I really had a good time finishing the wood and assembling the drums. Great project and I ended up with something that would've cost much more than what i've put into these.
 
It looks like Precision Drum uses the same bearing edge cut as Spaun, with the same logic as Spaun: "Around 95% of the drums we build have 'double 45' bearing edges, which give maximum resonance, clarity, and tuneability."

Do you all agree with this? Most double 45 edged kits I've heard have more of a rock, punchy sound/vibe to them, and I'm looking to build a jazz kit.

Would double 45 edges tune up nice and high for jazz, or is it better to opt for a rounded 45 (a la Pearl Masterworks) or 30 edge (Gretsch)?
 
It looks like Precision Drum uses the same bearing edge cut as Spaun, with the same logic as Spaun: "Around 95% of the drums we build have 'double 45' bearing edges, which give maximum resonance, clarity, and tuneability."

Do you all agree with this? Most double 45 edged kits I've heard have more of a rock, punchy sound/vibe to them, and I'm looking to build a jazz kit.

Would double 45 edges tune up nice and high for jazz, or is it better to opt for a rounded 45 (a la Pearl Masterworks) or 30 edge (Gretsch)?
Oooo, big subject right there. The difference in Spaun's approach is that the 45 is right towards the inner edge of the shell. This gives a slight "timpani" effect to their toms, & gets the bearing edge away from the crinkly stuff around the head rim. A sharp 45 offers a bright, lively & transparent sound. I'm not convinced that the angle makes a massive difference (+ or - a few degrees), but the sharpness of the edge certainly does. Very basically, the sharper the edge, the brighter the sound. More critical to tune too. A rounded edge (or any form of plateau landing) will soften the tone & offer a more forgiving tuning profile. Think of it as sharp = modern, rounded = vintage. Ok, I'm being ultra simplistic, & I'm sure the builders will chime in & put meat on the bones, but that's the basic theory right there. All that said, you can negate the sonic affect of any bearing edge profile with head choice. I have a Spaun kit, & I can't imagine any issues with a jazz tuning if fitted with the right heads.
 
Oooo, big subject right there. The difference in Spaun's approach is that the 45 is right towards the inner edge of the shell. This gives a slight "timpani" effect to their toms, & gets the bearing edge away from the crinkly stuff around the head rim. A sharp 45 offers a bright, lively & transparent sound. I'm not convinced that the angle makes a massive difference (+ or - a few degrees), but the sharpness of the edge certainly does. Very basically, the sharper the edge, the brighter the sound. More critical to tune too. A rounded edge (or any form of plateau landing) will soften the tone & offer a more forgiving tuning profile. Think of it as sharp = modern, rounded = vintage. Ok, I'm being ultra simplistic, & I'm sure the builders will chime in & put meat on the bones, but that's the basic theory right there. All that said, you can negate the sonic affect of any bearing edge profile with head choice. I have a Spaun kit, & I can't imagine any issues with a jazz tuning if fitted with the right heads.

Andy: Thanks--this info. is super helpful! I generally like the sound of Spauns, and I was considering them for a jazz kit, but I always get put on the fence by this bearing edge issue. I even wrote to Brian Spaun yesterday--he's added some cool, studio-based videos to the site to demonstrate how different kits sound (very good idea). However, they are all kits featuring rock tunings. I asked him to add some jazz tunings, and he said he would whenever they got a chance to build one--but, really, I just want to hear a Spaun 8x12 cranked up jazz style, that's all! I know their toms sound great in mid-range and down low, but I've never heard them up real high for bebop.

Thanks again for the bearing edge descriptions--much, much appreciated!
 
It looks like Precision Drum uses the same bearing edge cut as Spaun, with the same logic as Spaun: "Around 95% of the drums we build have 'double 45' bearing edges, which give maximum resonance, clarity, and tuneability."

Do you all agree with this? Most double 45 edged kits I've heard have more of a rock, punchy sound/vibe to them, and I'm looking to build a jazz kit.



Precision Drum will cut whatever edge you want, you're not limited to 45 degrees.
 
Precision Drum will cut whatever edge you want, you're not limited to 45 degrees.

Les: Yes, I know that, but their site says that they rarely do this or have requests for it--that there m.o. or preferred sound is their double 45. So, I was just wondering why this particular angle is so popular. I have even read physics papers attempting to prove that the double 45 offers more sound and resonance. Just wondering, then, how this would sound for jazz since almost no jazz drum builders (Craviotto, Gretsch, etc.) use that angle; they use either traditional 45 or 30.
 
I would say: If you are getting some enjoyment out of building your own drums, then knock yerself out.

If you are just trying to save some bread, then it might be better to get the drums you want from Ludwig (or whoever). At least then you are getting the benefit of their drum-making expertise. I was going to build my own drums for awhile there, but the more I learned about how much work goes into producing a really good kit (even if Keller squeezes together the plywood for me), the more I think I would rather spend the money to have DW make the little darlings, since they are the ones I would be copying anyway. Might as well get the genuine article, and know for certain that they will be exactly what I want them to be.
 
I would say: If you are getting some enjoyment out of building your own drums, then knock yerself out.

If you are just trying to save some bread, then it might be better to get the drums you want from Ludwig (or whoever). At least then you are getting the benefit of their drum-making expertise. I was going to build my own drums for awhile there, but the more I learned about how much work goes into producing a really good kit (even if Keller squeezes together the plywood for me), the more I think I would rather spend the money to have DW make the little darlings, since they are the ones I would be copying anyway. Might as well get the genuine article, and know for certain that they will be exactly what I want them to be.

MIke, I see your point; but Precision Drums can indeed make some awesome-sounding kits. Check out jazz player Steve Davis on his Precision drum kit:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=55863581

They sound amazing--check out his tom sounds (0:20-0:45) in particular.

To my ears, those drums are easily on par with Ludwig or Yamaha or Gretsch custom. Plus, Precision has thin shell options none of these companies can touch: 5-ply maple shells that are 3 mm thin (with rering option); 6-ply maple shells that are 4 mm thin (with rering option); 8-ply shells at 5.4 mm (GMS, Spaun shells, basically), etc.
 
why not using rounded on top to get more tone and sharp edges on bottom to get more sustain , you get the best of both worlds. tone plus sustain

that's how my custom kit is going to be
 
Les: Yes, I know that, but their site says that they rarely do this or have requests for it--that there m.o. or preferred sound is their double 45. So, I was just wondering why this particular angle is so popular. I have even read physics papers attempting to prove that the double 45 offers more sound and resonance. Just wondering, then, how this would sound for jazz since almost no jazz drum builders (Craviotto, Gretsch, etc.) use that angle; they use either traditional 45 or 30.



It really depends on the thickness of the shell.

There's not much room on the edge of a thin shell, so the roundness of a 45 on a thin shell will be about the same as a 30 degree, with a traditional 45 having the peak nearer the outside edge.

Now on a thicker shell, there's room to get some roundness/head-contact out of a 30 degree and its related effects.
 
why not using rounded on top to get more tone and sharp edges on bottom to get more sustain , you get the best of both worlds. tone plus sustain

that's how my custom kit is going to be
Very, very, very good advice. Just as you mix heads, you can mix bearing edges too. I'm following a similar path for my kit that's in progress right now. Actually, a little more complicated than that. We're using a short single 45 degree to the inner edge, but a full shell thickness radius to the outer edge. The reso edge will have a 0.5mm rad to the peak (very sharp), & the batter edge will have a 1.5mm flat. This is a very unusual bearing edge combo. I'll describe the thinking behind this when I introduce the kit in a few months time. As in all bearing edge decisions, the design must reflect the desired end result and take all variables into consideration. The profile I've just described can only really be applied to a specific shell build & material. It's designed to work with the natural resonance profile and fundamental tone of the wood.
 
Very, very, very good advice. Just as you mix heads, you can mix bearing edges too. I'm following a similar path for my kit that's in progress right now. Actually, a little more complicated than that. We're using a short single 45 degree to the inner edge, but a full shell thickness radius to the outer edge. The reso edge will have a 0.5mm rad to the peak (very sharp), & the batter edge will have a 1.5mm flat. This is a very unusual bearing edge combo. I'll describe the thinking behind this when I introduce the kit in a few months time. As in all bearing edge decisions, the design must reflect the desired end result and take all variables into consideration. The profile I've just described can only really be applied to a specific shell build & material. It's designed to work with the natural resonance profile and fundamental tone of the wood.

Andy: Do you think your Spaun custom maples can achieve the kind of tuning like you hear in the Steve Davis link I posted below? Just wondering.
 
Andy: Do you think your Spaun custom maples can achieve the kind of tuning like you hear in the Steve Davis link I posted below? Just wondering.
I can see no reason why not. I've tuned my 10" & 12" toms higher than that just to see what the tuning range is. They didn't choke out. I use G2's over G1's though. G1 coated top & bottom should get you close. Although I think you can tune just about any drum to such an extent with the right heads, I'm a firm believer in letting the shell dictate the optimum pitch. Although I could get my Spaun toms to that pitch & beyond, I don't think they're optimised for that. A thicker shell with re rings and gentle bearing edge would be better suited IMO. The sharper edges offer a more open sound & bring out the higher overtones, exactly what you don't want in a bop tuned kit. Thinner shells offer a lower tone (given the same wood). So, would the Spaun toms be suitable for that tuning, yes. Would they sound good, yes, but something produced specifically for the sound you're after would probably be better.
 
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