all the good ones

i've had that conversation with my drum teacher. he thinks that it's easier to play with a light touch with traditional grip. if you lift your wrist up high you can angle the stick down at the drum, which makes it easier to play very lightly. it's hard to do that angling thing with matched grip. plus it's just not as powerful a grip, unless you go out of your way to make it powerful. it's just good all around for playing lightly.

another thing is that it's definitely easier (in my opinion) to play brushes with the traditional grip. i don't know why exactly, but making those left hand sweeps is easier with that type of grip.

and also, traditional grip is traditional. all the great jazz players used it, so people today trying to capture the authentic look and feel of jazz continue to use it for that reason as well.
 
dairyairman said:
another thing is that it's definitely easier (in my opinion) to play brushes with the traditional grip. i don't know why exactly, but making those left hand sweeps is easier with that type of grip.
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The mechanics of the hand. Put the palm of your hand parallel to the floor and try to twist your wrist from left to right, then do it with you palm perpendicular to the floor. Mechanically, your wrist naturally works better for that using the traditional grip.

Saying that... i've never mastered traditional grip. I use it very sparingly even when I play with Jazz bands, its just awkward for me to play that way
 
I've seen great drummers use both grips. However, 99% of jazz drummers play traditional. This can't just be a coincidence. That said, the most important thing in jazz is to be musical and to swing. No one cares what grip you use ;)
 
Moduck's Rhythm said:
Mechanically, your wrist naturally works better for that using the traditional grip.
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I've heard this argument for years.......just can't be true IMHO. If that was the case then why not hold the stick 'traditional' grip in both hands?

Trad. grip was initially developed b/c it allowed a drummer better access to a snare drum that was slung over the shoulder and angled higher on the left as a result. Pure practicality.

I have no idea why trad. grip seems to be better suited to jazz drumming, but perhaps it is indeed easier to control all the ghosted intricacies. Nor can I debate which grip is better as I tried trad. grip for about 15 mins before adopting matched. I believe the better grip, is the grip YOU choose to use. But......I'm not buying into this biomechanical nonsense either......if the right hand can do it, the left can do it too.
 
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When my dad taught to hold the sticks almost 50 years ago, the traditional grip was the only way to go. Since then, I still use the traditional grip about 90% of the time. For me I feel the sense of more finesse when using the traditional grip with better left hand rebound ability when playing soft passages and using the full dynamics of the kit.

Dennis
 
I'm equally comfortable with trad and matched. For swinging Jazz, I prefer traditional. The left hand in bebop is used completely differently than in other types of drumming. The left hand is used to "comp" with the soloist. The strokes are almost exclusively grace notes. I find this to be much easier to do and more natural with traditional grip.

Have a look at videos of drummers who play bebop with matched grip. Their left hand just looks odd to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQuDAhMXwQA - this is not standard "matched grip". Or how about Ari Heonig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0dE6Y-1uk - his "technique" is painful for me to watch it's so ugly.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
I've heard this argument for years.......just can't be true IMHO. If that was the case then why not hold the stick 'traditional' grip in both hands?

Trad. grip was initially developed b/c it allowed a drummer better access to a snare drum that was slung over the shoulder and angled higher on the left as a result. Pure practicality.

I have no idea why trad. grip seems to be better suited to jazz drumming, but perhaps it is indeed easier to control all the ghosted intricacies. Nor can I debate which grip is better as I tried trad. grip for about 15 mins before adopting matched. I believe the better grip, is the grip YOU choose to use. But......I'm not buying into this biomechanical nonsense either......if the right hand can do it, the left can do it too.
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I agree :)

I just meant that for the sweeping motion that is used with brushes
 
jordanz said:
I'm equally comfortable with trad and matched. For swinging Jazz, I prefer traditional. The left hand in bebop is used completely differently than in other types of drumming. The left hand is used to "comp" with the soloist. The strokes are almost exclusively grace notes. I find this to be much easier to do and more natural with traditional grip.

Have a look at videos of drummers who play bebop with matched grip. Their left hand just looks odd to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQuDAhMXwQA - this is not standard "matched grip". Or how about Ari Heonig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0dE6Y-1uk - his "technique" is painful for me to watch it's so ugly.
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FYI: If you want to see an excellent discussion of the dynamics of traditional grip, Steve Smith talks about it, I believe in the "History of the US Beat" DVD.He refers to the traditional left hand grip as a more 'caressing' type of grip.

I guess I would agree to a point. I don't know if I am in agreement about the snare always comping aspect. Granted that happens way more in jazz than any other genre but I'd point to Bill Stewart, Tony Williams and Jack DeJohnette as players that are way more physical with the snare than just ghost note comping. Different than say Jimmy Cobb.

I grew up using traditional and switched to matched in the '80's when I was in college. It was considered the smart move especially when you were also playing mallets, multiple percussion and timpani (where the terms French and German grip are talked about in terms of tone).

I now play mostly matched. I also find my jazz brush work always feels better with traditional. But there are two issues that interfere with me giving a blanket affirmation to using traditional for all things jazz.

The first and most important is that the angle of my snare is directly connected to my ability to comfortably play rim shots. I also had a discussion with Dave Weckl one time at a playground where our daughters were playing back in the '90's....he's local. I mentioned that I'd have to change the angle of all of my drums and cymbals at least in some way to effectively use traditional grip and pretty much commit to it for the majority of my playing. He agreed with me on that and said he had made adjustments, especially after studying with Freddy Gruber.
I can go back and forth between the two grips but feel limited, especially on snare, if I am using my standard flat or mildly angled (down toward me) snare position. If I am going to use a traditional grip, I feel I have to commit to it comprehensively and adjust my drum set. The big guys that do go back and forth (Weckl, Smith, etc.) seem to play traditional mostly and occasionally switch to matched. Not usually the opposite. The only exception being Bill Stewart who plays matched all the time except - for when he uses brushes.

The second issue is that I am always more comfortable playing matched when I get down to the floor tom, especially if I am using two floors (14 and 16 inch). I just feel like I have to torque my body more when I use traditional. Granted Vinnie, Dave and Stave don't seem to have this problem but for me it makes me more 'snare centric". That may be OK for jazz but not for pop/rock/funk. When I'm playing matched the grip seems to turn more gracefully depending where I am playing on the drums set. It can morph between French (thumbs up) and American/German (thumbs to the side). That just feels more organic where when I was first studying drums the way to get around the set included turning the traditional left hand over to play floor toms. Just never felt natural to me.

I do keep up my traditional grip on my pad and most of the time use it for brushes. However, I normally will play matched on the set, even during jazz tunes. My left hand may go to French grip for sensitivity and speed at low volumes (saw Bill Stewart do this). I will sometimes switch to traditional when my left hand is getting fatigued and I don't have to play rimshots. That's about it though.

As far as grips looking uncomfortable, I'll defer to an experience I had at NAMM back in the '80's. I saw Jeff Porcaro playing in one of these NAMM super groups (probably co-endorsees). He sounded fabulous as usual but looked very stiff while playing. I learned a lesson after thing about it. He was playing like he would at a session. I figured that sometimes you have to add 'weight' to your motions to make sure they are precise, especially at slow to medium tempos. This was his way of making things lock. Don't know if this applies to jazz but I can definitely see how the mechanics work in general.


HTH

Jim
 
I use Traditional grip about 95% of the time. It's the way I was taught years ago and the way we played. It's easier to do buzz rolls, left hand accents, etc. But I can also play matched grip, I just prefer to use traditional. To each his own, I suppose....
 
As I understand it, traditional grip was the standard grip before and during the jazz era. So, I would venture to guess that jazz drumming itself was influenced by the traditional grip. That is to say, perhaps the rhythmic motions that naturally come from traditional grip were applied more in jazz drumming, so the progression that led to jazz drumming as we know it was mechanical as well as musical. My guess is if jazz drummers had always used matched grip, jazz drumming would have evolved in a slightly different way.
 
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