The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I was alluding to the fact that there really is no way to have a greatest anything of all time. There's just no objective way to do that, since by its very nature a GOAT is very subjective.



I don't think anyone is wrong, since it's all so subjective. Unless of course anyone actually thinks Jeff Indyke is the best ;)

I SO don’t know who Jeff Indyke is. I feel left out of a joke or something.
 
If you take the subjective, which anything in the world can be, and "art" out of the equation then you still have the greatest. Why? Because there's no one that can do what he could do on drums. Not even the top end guys that practice and gig with the top musicians of today.

There are the greatest(of many different subject) and that's what inspiration and hopefulness of another being born in our lifetime is. Not worship. The scale is there and we can get to it in our own way, but there's no doubt that there are people born to do these things naturally. Those people are the inspiration and hope that exists. They are one in millions!!!

There are people out there that could be the greatest, but they don't have the privilege or the opportunity to be in the spot light. So that is still the scale.

You can take almost any subject and pick out the greatest. It's what everyone learns from and the greatest learned from everyone else as well. It's not a one way street. It's a collective whole and someone will be on top.
 
No.Blaine, Gadd, Gordon, Earl Palmer, John "Jr" Robinson are.WHY?! , simply because of the sheer number of sessions played on&DIFFERENT & VARIOUS STYLES of music played!.Imho(&humble opinion) BR 's overrated & could only play ONE style of music:bigband, bebop&jazz!.
 
No.Blaine, Gadd, Gordon, Earl Palmer, John "Jr" Robinson are.WHY?! , simply because of the sheer number of sessions played on&DIFFERENT & VARIOUS STYLES of music played!.Imho(&humble opinion) BR 's overrated & could only play ONE style of music:bigband, bebop&jazz!.

The thing is about style is that there is no style. Any of the big band drummers can play any style. That's what's missing that people don't understand. There are styles from different cultures around the world. Big band/jazz has a combination of all that, and you can say that about every other style but it builds up to that. . Sure there are extreme styles that are more straight forward(like speed metal and rap which I can't stand), but it's all there. A whole collective! You can take any subject in the world and apply that. The sub categories are a pleasure and are built upon, but it all comes together just like a pot of chili.

I'm more of fan of those guys you mentioned when I listen to music because they play more simple with the level of musicality that Buddy had. Buddy is in your face and playing to extreme levels of energy, but when he is playing it's just the natural way he plays. He himself didn't know how he was doing what he did on those drums. The info is out there and I'm not telling you nothing new. This is my opinion and your welcome to disagree. We can only go by the info we have accepted-sorry I just made that up. That's what I love about people... Arguing, learning, and a little Peace.
 
Not really related to the question about the greatest drummer, but it does get me thinking about something I've been contemplating lately.

There aren't many physical feats that aren't surpassed over time. Athletes get faster and stronger. One of the few things in drumming that I feel has not really been done better would be Buddy's single-stroke roll. Another is Tony's ride cymbal playing, those crazy five-note groupings at blazing tempos. I guess it's not so shocking when you think about the relatively low demand for those particular skills in modern music. But still, they have stood the test of time.

For Buddy, the specific thing I'm amazed by is that single-stroke roll thing he did, where he starts slow and builds it up, moves it to the rim of the snare and then back, from pianissimo to forte. I don't think anyone has the technique to do that like him, even today. Play faster? Sure. But the power, control and speed combined needed to pull that off so cleanly across tempos and dynamics is what sets Buddy apart. I've watched Mangini, Jojo and others try it and I don't think they come all that close. The speed is there, but the gradual build-up, the power to go from a whisper to a roar, their techniques don't seem to quite work the same way. There are players who can play more notes in a minute, but the complete command of it is something I don't think has been done better in all the decades since.

Again, nothing to do with the topic of who the greatest drummer is. Just saying.

Maybe. Actually, the one thing I’ve never seen anyone do as well is his buzz roll. Buddy himself said Billy Gladstone had a better buzz roll, but I’ve never seen video of Gladstone’s playing.
 
Evidently, many of those who do not believe BR is the greatest drummer of all time don't have the proper perspective. Most of those who have commented above who don't believe BR is the greatest have only seen YouTube videos of him in his 70s when he was just a shadow of himself compared to his prime. I suggest that these people get the album "Swingin' New Big Band" that was recorded live when Rich was 50 years old and still in his prime. Those who commented that he didn't have foot work like the chops masters of today need only listen to "West Side Story Medley" where they will hear polyrhythms and time signature changes. Also, there is a YouTube recording made in the 40s in which Rich comes out on stage where there were only two bass drums set up. He proceeds to play double bass patterns to show that the whole Louis Bellson double bass drum thing was no big deal.

BR had an idetic memory and when his new big band was rehearsing, a drummer was brought in to play the songs using the charts on the initial play through, after which Rich would have the whole song down.

Buddy Rich could play 600 strokes per minute continuously with his left hand--cleanly.

The speed drummers of today playing very fast compared to how Rich played in the context of a song or a solo is like comparing the kids who can do all kinds of dazzling dunks to Michael Jordan dunking against a couple of 6'11" NBA players during an NBA game.

Anyone who knows anything about jazz knows that it is significantly more complex than rock--even progressive rock (example Take Five by Dave Brubeck Quartet). Rich could play anything in front of him of any genre.

There are those who maintain that John Bonham is the greatest rock drummer. Guess who John Bonham thought was the greatest drummer and was a huge influence--Buddy Rich.

How many drummers have fronted his own band for decades?

I could go on, but I rest my case.
 
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I like the greatest "of all time" part. Yes Buddy Rich is the greatest and no one will ever be better. From now until eternity.


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Many names thrown about in this thread. Sure some of them have the ability. Many may have him licked in technical facility. Some may even have it over him as far as a broader application of their musicality is concerned.

But which one of them has stood taller?

Go and ask the average man on the street who Steve Gadd, or Hal Blaine, or Gavin Harrison, or Mike Mangini are. You'll draw a blank. But there was a time where everyone knew Buddy.

Like I said in the very first response. Much like Ali, his greatness lies as much in the profile he managed to raise and the attention he was able to bring to to his craft, as it was actually plying that craft. He transcended the actual act of playing drums and became a focal point for the entire craft.

He was a giant. None have stood taller or shone brighter. That's not subjective. That's just cold hard fact. And for that reason alone, rightly or wrongly, he'll continue to top "best ever" lists.
 
That's essentially the point I was trying to make. Drummers like that can match (if not exceed) Buddy's hand technique, yet are leaps and bounds better at foot technique.
Seriously? Do your homework dude. Buddy played a complete set once with NO SPRING on his pedal. Give that a shot.
 
Chick Webb was way ahead of his time, probably more so than Buddy was during his era. And he was a nice, modest and encouraging guy.
 
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