Royalties Question

Kevin Jorrey

Junior Member
I left my previous band to focus on work and school for awhile. I recently found out that 2 of the members kicked the bass player out (who owns the copyright for all of the songs and the band name).

Now the remaining two members have gone back in to the studio and are "re-mixing" the album we recorded together and selling an EP of it.

They are also close to getting two of the songs into a movie.

I drummed on everything they are doing and even the ones they are re-mixing.

My question is: do I get any of the money that they are getting? If I do, how can I go about getting it? If I don't, how can I go about not letting them release anything with me drumming on it if that is even a viable option?

Thanks for reading the long post and thank you for your help.
 
Unless you had a contract with them that specified your cut of the recording, probably not. And I assume you don't, or you wouldn't be asking.

Drum parts are not subject to copyright laws, so you can't make a claim there.

You could make a claim you should be paid for your performance, if they indeed use your drum tracks. However, most of the money they stand to make is publishing rights, which unless you wrote the songs, you have no claim to. Even in the most ideal situation with the best contracts, just appearing on an album is not a huge royalty money maker.

Even if they do sell numerous copies, and have a gross income for you to make a claim against, they (and/or the record company releasing it) will get to deduct the cost of printing the EP, advertising and promotion, the recording and re-mixing costs, and any other expenses BEFORE there is a profit for you to claim a piece of.

As for preventing them from using your tracks, forget it. You willingly performed on the recording, and then you left the band of your own freewill. It's not their fault you went back to school rather than sticking with the band.

But as I said, unless you had an agreement with them in writing, making any claim is difficult.

And unless you discover they're actually making a good chunk of money off selling the EP, lawyer fees would probably cost more than you'd get, assuming you even won.

On the bright side, you're on an EP. It's nice thing to list on your musical resume.

And of course, you could always just ask for a cut, and hope they offer to buy your performances for an upfront session fee.
 
IF there is any money made selling the EP, and IF there is money from licensing the song/s for a film, you should go back and ask for some sortr of fee. Legally, especially since you left the band after essentially giving your time to a project, I doubt you have a claim. But if the remaining guys are honorable, they should throw you a bone.

Bermuda
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I indeed did structure almost every song, but I myself did not actually come up with the other parts being played minus the bass lines we did.

I will kindly ask them to be credited for performing on the tracks as well as asking for some sort of bone to be thrown to me if they do end up making a little bit.

Thanks a lot for the very nicely written suggestions.
 
I do know of one northwest band that released a record that was essentially a compilation, and included a lot of musicians who were no longer with the band. The album went platinum, and those players were able to get quite a few thousand bucks out of it, and not because the band leader decided to be a nice guy about it. I don't believe they had any written agreement at all before the fact. If they're making real money on this movie thing (like >thousands), you might consult with an entertainment lawyer and find out what your options are. If you can't find anyone in your city, try contacting Bartley Day in Portland- he can either help you or refer you to someone. I wouldn't bother trying to collect on EP sales unless they're selling thousands of them.
 
Didn't the Brass section on Phil Collins Live album win a similar case...........they got awarded royalites from the sale of his live album
 
I'm not sure. I just figured I'd ask some of the more experienced members because I couldn't find anything on the forums or on google. So thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions.
 
Kevin:

Good question and not an uncommon situation. Here is some limited advice based solely on the facts as set forth above by you. There may be other relevant facts I don't know about so please do not consider this legal advice. If this project starts to make money, however, you should go talk to an entertainment attorney. First, are you a member of the Union? If so, there may be some rights in what you did and you would have to contact your union rep. I don't know the law on this issue in Ohio but if it is a "right to work state", membership in the union may not make a difference.

Second, be careful that you do not take advice on this issue from someone who is not an attorney who deals with these type of situations. There is a lot of innacurate or partially innacurate or almost accurate advice out there and you should get the facts from someone who knows the lay of the land.

The big problem that these two guys have is with the ex bass player. If the original recordings were never released and the bass player wrote the songs and owns the copyright, then the two other guys have no legal right to re-mix and sell the material absent a license from the copyright holder. If the tracks have never been released then they are not entitled to a compulsory license and the bass player can stop them from releasing the material. If they have already released the material he can file a copyright infringement claim in federal court to get back all of the money they made. In a practical sense, however, this may not be worthwhile financially although different areas of the Copyright statute allow for an award of attorney fees and expenses if the copyright holder prevails.

As far as your rights are concerned, unless you have an agreement with these guys that they will pay you a percentage then a recovery would be hard. The agreement does not have to be in writing, but it sure helps if it is! Did you get paid for the recording? If not - and assuming that no "work for hire" agreement was executed by you, then you could have a claim sounding in unjust enrichment, but again, the costs of pursuing such a claim would be prohibitive.

Bermuda is right, that if these are good guys they should throw your a percentage bone. I would advise that you don't take an ownership interest, however, or you may find yourself a defendant in any claim brought by the bass player.

These can be painful lessons t learn in this business but it is all okay as long as you learn from it. Next time, have a written, signed agreement that sets forth the obligations and expectations of each party.

Paul
 
Thank you very much Paul. That helped a lot and cleared some things up for me. The bass player is a good friend of mine and he wouldn't file any lawsuits against me. One of the two members still in the band is kind of a shady character, so I will just have to politely ask for a percentage.

In your opinion, what would be a fair percentage of the profit they receive. I was thinking 5%-10%.

Thank you again for taking the time to give me some advice.
 
Thank you very much Paul. That helped a lot and cleared some things up for me. The bass player is a good friend of mine and he wouldn't file any lawsuits against me. One of the two members still in the band is kind of a shady character, so I will just have to politely ask for a percentage.

In your opinion, what would be a fair percentage of the profit they receive. I was thinking 5%-10%.

Thank you again for taking the time to give me some advice.

You are welcome! Anyone that knows me from around here and in the business in general knows that I am firm beleiver in the community of drummers and that means we help each other out! In terms of a fair percentage, that would depend on exactly what your role was. Did you just turn up and play some pre-written parts? Did you help with arrangements and rehearse the parts before recording? Did you pay anything toward the recording costs? Usually, in a situation like this I would suggest anywhere from 3% to 15%. There is some appeal, however, in telling them that you think 10 or 12% would be reasonable and maybe settling on 8%.

Let me know how it works out!

Paul
 
This thread riminds me of a situation I was in last year. One of my ex bandmates was involved in an independant film which was made and he gave them a song for the title sequence. It turned out to ba a song he, myself and our bass player co wrote recorded and copyrighted. I was kind of confused as to why he didnt need my permission (he thought) to give it to them to use. Trust me when I say this film was so independent, I may owe them money for the songs use so there was never going to be any money made from the use of our song but I would have like to know. just a rant.
 
I was always the sober member. I was the accountant. I took care of all the money and getting paid always and kept inventory of everything.

I also wrote all of the drum parts, and structured just about every song we had all the way through. I didn't come up with their parts, but I put the parts where they needed to be.

I'm gonna ask for 10-12% and hope for 8-10%. I think that's fair. I'm not one to ask for more than I think I deserve. Thank you for the recommendation and I will let you know how it all goes.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and good advice.
 
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