Concerned about my ride cymbal for a quiet jazz gig

alparrott

Diamond Member
So previous to this, I've never had occasion to want or need another ride cymbal in my life; my trusty 20" K Custom has served me for any old thing I could possibly want to do. But this next gig will be a very low-volume piano-bass-drums jazz trio backing a female singer in a somewhat small room. And in my rehearsals, the K Custom just sounds impossibly high and bright suddenly. I'm very worried about it having too much cut and not enough cushion. I won't be doing a bunch of these gigs, but I would like to do more than one.

As I see it my options are -

1) I go as is. I put a strip of tape on the underside to dry it up just a hair, play it as light as can be, and no crashing. (I have no problem playing lightly, but even with the softest touch this thing is sounding SO LOUD right now.)

2) I switch to a rod or Blastick in the right hand to keep things on the down low.

3) I take my old 19" A medium-thin crash and use that as a ride instead - less ping, more wash, and definitely not as cutting. Never mind a second crash, I won't need it.

4) I go plunk some dough I don't have on a new cymbal I will likely not play more than a half-dozen times a year (not my preferred option).

Thoughts?
 
So previous to this, I've never had occasion to want or need another ride cymbal in my life; my trusty 20" K Custom has served me for any old thing I could possibly want to do. But this next gig will be a very low-volume piano-bass-drums jazz trio backing a female singer in a somewhat small room. And in my rehearsals, the K Custom just sounds impossibly high and bright suddenly. I'm very worried about it having too much cut and not enough cushion. I won't be doing a bunch of these gigs, but I would like to do more than one.

As I see it my options are -

1) I go as is. I put a strip of tape on the underside to dry it up just a hair, play it as light as can be, and no crashing. (I have no problem playing lightly, but even with the softest touch this thing is sounding SO LOUD right now.)

2) I switch to a rod or Blastick in the right hand to keep things on the down low.

3) I take my old 19" A medium-thin crash and use that as a ride instead - less ping, more wash, and definitely not as cutting. Never mind a second crash, I won't need it.

4) I go plunk some dough I don't have on a new cymbal I will likely not play more than a half-dozen times a year (not my preferred option).

Thoughts?

I'm surprised you only have the one cymbal. True, I would say "make it work" with your technique, but sometimes Buddy Rich playing his regular kit, as brilliant as he was, sounds out of place if it were an intimate jazz setting. It may be time for you to invest in a K Light ride or something thinner. Thin will be lower pitched, and go more "tah" as opposed to "ting". If you can find a used Sabian 20" Manhattan ride (an HH), those do that K Light Ride thing too. Or maybe just a Zildjian K labeled "Ride" (no other adjectives), those spread out well and give you more "tah".

I know you're looking at it that you're only doing so many gigs, but having the two cymbals will allow you to be more available for situations just like this one.
 
I vote for trying the 19" A medium crash.​
 
I'm surprised you only have the one cymbal. True, I would say "make it work" with your technique, but sometimes Buddy Rich playing his regular kit, as brilliant as he was, sounds out of place if it were an intimate jazz setting. It may be time for you to invest in a K Light ride or something thinner. Thin will be lower pitched, and go more "tah" as opposed to "ting". If you can find a used Sabian 20" Manhattan ride (an HH), those do that K Light Ride thing too. Or maybe just a Zildjian K labeled "Ride" (no other adjectives), those spread out well and give you more "tah".

I know you're looking at it that you're only doing so many gigs, but having the two cymbals will allow you to be more available for situations just like this one.

Well, I have the two cymbals now, but I doubt the A & Cie brilliant ride I just picked up will be more suitable - if anything, probably slightly more out of place.

The only cymbal in town that I could buy right now that fits the bill is a 20" Artisan. Beautiful thing, but I can't justify $400 for it. Anything else is a day's drive away and back, or an internet purchase. Option 4 really isn't much of an option, even though I mentioned it.
 
Well, I have the two cymbals now, but I doubt the A & Cie brilliant ride I just picked up will be more suitable - if anything, probably slightly more out of place.

The only cymbal in town that I could buy right now that fits the bill is a 20" Artisan. Beautiful thing, but I can't justify $400 for it. Anything else is a day's drive away and back, or an internet purchase. Option 4 really isn't much of an option, even though I mentioned it.

Well, as Harry said, go for the 19" and play it a little differently and maybe nobody will really notice. Heck, you're probably the only who notices anyway.

Or play brushes the whole time. I've done entire 4-hour jazz gigs on brushes. I love it!
 
Well, as Harry said, go for the 19" and play it a little differently and maybe nobody will really notice. Heck, you're probably the only who notices anyway.

Or play brushes the whole time. I've done entire 4-hour jazz gigs on brushes. I love it!

That's where I'm headed. Or I'll see if any of my local buddies has been squirreling away an old Istanbul K they want to lend me...
 
Another option is to try some lighter jazz sticks. For most things I use a 5A or equivalent, but for light jazz work I switch to Vater BeBop 525s. I'm able to get a much lighter note out of my ride using these sticks, plus I'm able to play very controlled and consistent at lower volumes. If you don't already have a pair of light jazz sticks, I'd recommend these.
 
Smaller drumstick (7A perhaps)
Maple drumstick - Less bright sounding
Smaller tip drumstick - Less volume

Any or all of the options above

Mick
 
Another vote for the 19 crash as a ride. Play that with some light sticks and you're on to a winner.

If it's not a regular gig then it's pointless wasting money on another ride that you might not use again.
 
Well....just so that the tape crowd is represented....I vote for a little tape....

Now, hear me out....

1. Absolutely the cheapest option you have.
2. Non-permanent solution.
3. You may be surprised how many of the greats have used tape in he past.
4. You may be more surprised at just how close a taped K Custom sounds to one of the "Direct from Turkey Super Jazz Series Dry Ride" cymbals.
5. Most improtantly, if it doesn't work you haven't lost anything and are free to use that 19" crash, or to spend money you don't have on a new ride. You could bring the K Custom and tape, and the 19" crash to your next rehearsal and have your answer in a matter if seconds....

(NOTE: GAFFERS TAPE)

I recently did the tape thing on a late 80s 20" A med ride.... Funny how that $130 A instantly sounds like some pie from Istanbul (to my ears anyway).... Nice "tah"....dry...quiet enough for my work.
 
Well....just so that the tape crowd is represented....I vote for a little tape....

Now, hear me out....

1. Absolutely the cheapest option you have.
2. Non-permanent solution.
3. You may be surprised how many of the greats have used tape in he past.
4. You may be more surprised at just how close a taped K Custom sounds to one of the "Direct from Turkey Super Jazz Series Dry Ride" cymbals.
5. Most improtantly, if it doesn't work you haven't lost anything and are free to use that 19" crash, or to spend money you don't have on a new ride. You could bring the K Custom and tape, and the 19" crash to your next rehearsal and have your answer in a matter if seconds....

(NOTE: GAFFERS TAPE)

I recently did the tape thing on a late 80s 20" A med ride.... Funny how that $130 A instantly sounds like some pie from Istanbul (to my ears anyway).... Nice "tah"....dry...quiet enough for my work.

Actually this aint a bad idea at all. I'll add a bit of tape on a K Custom will be easier to remove as well as it's lathed differently to an A.

Don't do what one of the previous owners of my 22 A medium did and gaffer tape the side you're hitting.
 
Can't you just try options 1, 2 and 3 during a rehearsal and see which one works best? Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.
 
I'd buy a new cymbal as a last resort. Unlike a lot of people on here, I HATE spending money; I like to work with what I have. Spending is a last resort for me. For every thing I buy, I try to sell something. If I'm not using it, it goes.

Here are my other suggestions:

Try a set of Vic Firth AJ5's. They are smaller than a 7A. I use them all of the time with the band I'm playing in now. I even use them at outdoor gigs because even though it's outside, we play on smaller stages. My litmus test is that if I can't hear the lead vocals, I'm too loud. I do my best to play to the room.

If that doesn't work, try brushes or rods...or even the tape idea.

Another thing...it may be a crummy room you are playing/practicing in too. The practice room I have at my house is nice but the it sounds horrible. Don't let one room fool you too badly.

As a side note, it's really cool that you are sensitive to what's going on around you and that you want it to sound the best you can. Not a lot of drummers would do that.
 
Another vote for the 19 crash as a ride. Play that with some light sticks and you're on to a winner. If it's not a regular gig then it's pointless wasting money on another ride that you might not use again.

Which is my thought exactly. At this point, unless I get a BUNCH of these gigs for the rest of the year, it doesn't yet justify even the cheapest cymbal in Brent's list (although you did pick some winners... thank you!)

Actually this aint a bad idea at all. I'll add a bit of tape on a K Custom will be easier to remove as well as it's lathed differently to an A. Don't do what one of the previous owners of my 22 A medium did and gaffer tape the side you're hitting.

Ha, no! I have gaffe taped the bottom of the K Custom and it sounds even a little clankier than before... I think if the 19 is too much a little tape there might be helpful.

Can't you just try options 1, 2 and 3 during a rehearsal and see which one works best? Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.

Probably what I'll end up doing this weekend's rehearsal. My current room is probably about as reflective as the actual venue, just smaller.

Try a set of Vic Firth AJ5's. They are smaller than a 7A. I use them all of the time with the band I'm playing in now. I even use them at outdoor gigs because even though it's outside, we play on smaller stages. My litmus test is that if I can't hear the lead vocals, I'm too loud. I do my best to play to the room.

These are in fact the exact sticks I'm using. Great minds...

If that doesn't work, try brushes or rods...or even the tape idea. ...Another thing...it may be a crummy room you are playing/practicing in too. The practice room I have at my house is nice but the it sounds horrible. Don't let one room fool you too badly. ...As a side note, it's really cool that you are sensitive to what's going on around you and that you want it to sound the best you can. Not a lot of drummers would do that.

Also all on the table. My practice room at home is a converted garage and sounds terrible no matter what. We're rehearsing in someone's living room (because that's where the piano is). The venue is a converted storefront with wood floors, high ceilings, and plaster walls - so my garage is probably closer in acoustics to how that will sound.

That said, man, you're a cheapskate! :) Buy a proper jazz cymbal already! Used, if you want to save cash.

At this point, yeah, I am - again, if I get a bunch more of these gigs, I'll be looking a lot more seriously at a new cymbal, but right now even $220 is a bit much to ask of the ol' budget. But again, I appreciate you looking these up for me.

Thanks to all of you guys, very helpful.
 
I suggest that if you are going to try tape, don't use gaffer tape.
Not necessary - the adhesive is too damaging to the cymbal.

Get painter's tape, the 2" wide stuff. Trust me, it works wonders and just as good as gaffer tape - when you want to remove it, no sticky mess left behind.

Even better - go to your nearest Rockler and get a couple (or more) small (1/2") rare earth magnets. They are like small disks. Put one on either side of the cymbal. Same idea as the Meinl cymbal tuners : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uxpb4XQdXI

IMHO, tape and magnets are really only effective to control wash. They won't help much to make a bright cymbal sound darker. Some of the other suggestions about using different sticks perhaps...

Or try a used 20" Kerope!
 
What's going on, is the singer going to be unmiked or something? Any reason you can't just play with brushes all night? Not that it's necessarily much quieter, but it reassures everyone else that you're trying to be quiet.

Failing that, I would try to scrounge up an 18" or 19" Bosphorus ride-- a Turk or something else dry. Or a lightish 18" flat. Then you'll also have a quiet cymbal for rehearsals in people's living rooms where everything sounds too loud.

But also: people don't want you to be as quiet as they think they do. If you're so quiet that someone serving a drink or coughing momentarily drowns you out, the audience gets distracted and eventually loses interest. The bold choice is just to use your regular cymbal and play as quietly as you can, and it will work out fine because people will be able to hear you and there will be enough sound that the other players won't be afraid to touch their instruments because everyone's so ridiculously quiet. Maybe someone will panic because they can hear the music; most likely the sound will just fill out a little bit and people will relax and enjoy playing and listening.
 
A Dream Bliss ride might be perfect for this kind of gig, and a used one should be cheap enough to justify even if it only gets used at a half-dozen gigs a year.
 
What's going on, is the singer going to be unmiked or something? Any reason you can't just play with brushes all night? Not that it's necessarily much quieter, but it reassures everyone else that you're trying to be quiet.

Failing that, I would try to scrounge up an 18" or 19" Bosphorus ride-- a Turk or something else dry. Or a lightish 18" flat. Then you'll also have a quiet cymbal for rehearsals in people's living rooms where everything sounds too loud.

But also: people don't want you to be as quiet as they think they do. If you're so quiet that someone serving a drink or coughing momentarily drowns you out, the audience gets distracted and eventually loses interest. The bold choice is just to use your regular cymbal and play as quietly as you can, and it will work out fine because people will be able to hear you and there will be enough sound that the other players won't be afraid to touch their instruments because everyone's so ridiculously quiet. Maybe someone will panic because they can hear the music; most likely the sound will just fill out a little bit and people will relax and enjoy playing and listening.

All good points, Todd. I just found out that the space has been reconfigured recently to open up more space, so I am quickly getting over my fear of whether or not I should play my normal cymbal. I think with the extra-light sticks, the larger room, and using brushes and/or rods will totally work.

A Dream Bliss ride might be perfect for this kind of gig, and a used one should be cheap enough to justify even if it only gets used at a half-dozen gigs a year.

I like how you're thinking. Thanks for the suggestion.

I also just found a used Sabian Monarch 22" in Spokane for $139 that might get the nod if I do decide to go that route - it's pretty much as perfect a sound as I've heard for this gig.
 
Back
Top