I've got the "looper" blues

I have an idea Larry.
When the guitar player starts the guitar loop, you start a pre-recorded drum loop.
Then you can stop playing and have a quick drink or take a potty break.


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Aeolian said:
I was thinking the same thing as Jim as I was going through the thread. Run an output (or split) off the looper to a Hot Spot where you can hear it but he can't.
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I may have to do this on a gig where we are far apart

Anon La Ply said:
Good on him, I say! Screw what others think of you. The only thing he's doing wrong is being a bit insensitive about how he makes others feel within themselves, which doesn't work for me but I can understand why you're fine with him. Besides, I'd rather someone be pleasant because they care about others' happiness than because they care about what I might think of them.

I like what he's doing - he's setting you a challenge with the aim of achieving a fuller band sound during solos. It seems like you need monitoring, though.

You could take Aeolian's advice or get a feed in the looped solo songs through a single can or ear bud, leaving the other ear to pick up ambient sound (I've done this before because I hate cans too - I don't even like them when just listening to music). Thing is, you wouldn't want to be in the situation where you're trying to stay locked in with a loop while playing in a room with muddy acoustics.
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I agree with everything you say darling.

Road Bull said:
Best advice I could offer after dealing with this exact issue in my current band is to simply get rid of the looper, and if not possible, get rid of the guitarist.

My guitarist, great guy, used one because when I joined the band, it was just a trio, bass, drums, and guitar. I have experienced first-hand everything you have talked about. It is the suck! There are so many variables and opportunities for a train wreck, that it totally kills the advantage this device might offer. I would say that it has its place if someone wants to practice a part or something, but NOT in a live situation!

I have had to play though one of my favorite songs against this evil device several times live. Something gets off, and then what the hell are you supposed to do? Do you follow the dumb loop, the bassist, what the guitarist is currently doing, ignore all and plow on ahead? And depending on the situation, and how well, and if you are monitored, it might not even be an option to hear what someone is doing.

They are just terrible. I can think of tons of three piece bands that got by without such a device or layered guitars, and they didn't sound empty.

Thankfully, we added another guitar into the mix, so bye bye looper!

Good luck brother!
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Thanks for the sympathy, it's nice to be validated. But it's a hill I have to climb.

Aeolian said:
Here's another thought. Thinking back to my gig last night. Some, fairly competent, guitarists don't understand how to comp. They are so busy, use full tone, or are so loud, that when they go to a single line solo the bottom drops out. They are very aware of the sudden emptiness so they tend to play very busy solos or start doing chordish things to keep it up. Or do something crazy like run a looper so what they were doing before keeps going.

The problem isn't with their soloing, it's with their comping. The mix is solo (singer or soloing instrument), drums, bass, and other comping instruments. In that order of precedence. Even in guitar heavy rock songs, that screaming distorted guitar part is still lower than the vocals, drums and equal to or lower than the bass.

Most guitarists in rock bands need to have their amp cranked to get that sound. So they play at the same volume all through the song. And you get that bottom falling out thing during the solos.

There are a few ways out of this. Frank Gambale and Jimmy Herring use a separate volume pedal in the loop of their amp to control the overall volume. They use another volume pedal (or you can use the knobs on the guitar) to control the gain. I have a buddy Ken Harrill (who is all over the first Guitar Hero tracks) who does the same thing and I've played his rig. It works really well and gave me the idea for option 2. I use an overdrive pedal ahead of my volume pedal for songs where there is a distorted comp part. It's not the tone from the gods that I get from my amp, but it works for background parts. I switch to the amps OD for solo parts, or run both together for over the top gain. Another option is to use 2 amps with a switcher. If that is too much space on stage, there is a thing called a Tonebone that switches multiple heads into the same cabinet.

One way or the other, you need to turn down the comp parts so there is some place to go with the solos. Work this part out and he won't feel the need for the looper.
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You're speaking guitar and it does not compute lol. I have no idea what you are telling me to do lol. But I appreciate the time you spent writing that.

Hollywood Jim said:
I have an idea Larry.
When the guitar player starts the guitar loop, you start a pre-recorded drum loop.
Then you can stop playing and have a quick drink or take a potty break.
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Ha ha Jim you slay me, for real. Talk about your poetic justice lol. Some day when I'm feeling snarky I'll run that by him lol.

I just came back from a wedding we just did (we are so not a wedding band)
Tonight I did pretty good with it. I made it through all (except one) of the sections he used it with only one minor adjustment, and I only really failed once.

I'll tell you what....he uses a wireless for his guitar, and when he puts that looper on and walks out into the crowd...yea I feel a little pressure. But I have to just drop that thought because it will distract me, and do my best. My biggest problem is, sometimes I second guess what I think I heard....was I ahead a little? Should I adjust? And when the bass player hits a note a tad early I have to calculate if he was early, or if I was late, then quick try and hear the loop, and that's one microsecond distraction I don't need. It's pretty cool when I make it to the end of a section though, then I can relax and enjoy myself lol.

Another thing, and it's a matter of stupid pride....I don't even want to mention that I need anything extra. I want to be able to just do it like it's no problem at all. Tonight was encouraging and I think this thread helped me organize my thoughts on the matter and I'd really like to thank you guys for helping out. Thanks.
 
larryace said:
But thanks for the concern Bo. Have you ever played with someone that you enjoyed so much that it trumps just about everything else? I consider myself very lucky indeed.
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I get it, no worries. And of course I've had to play with enjoyable jerks. My current employer doesn't really consider personalities when putting together players for a project or a long term gig. We're all just expected to be pros and get through it, and for the most part we do. In fact, one of my big lessons whenever I teach a bit about being a performer is that you should try to get along with everyone, because you spend more time together traveling, rehearsing and what not than you do actually performing up on stage. I would think every pro knows this.
 
larryace said:
And when the bass player hits a note a tad early I have to calculate if he was early, or if I was late
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It just dawned on me. What is the bass player doing this looping thing?

Maybe you could just follow him.

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That would drive me nuts. Tell guitar boy to listen to the bass for his solos. Otherwise, I would hit the road.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
It just dawned on me. What is the bass player doing this looping thing?

Maybe you could just follow him.

.
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No, the guitar player loops. It would be a disaster if the bass player looped, he's not nearly the musician as the guitar player.

MCM said:
That would drive me nuts. Tell guitar boy to listen to the bass for his solos. Otherwise, I would hit the road.
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He's more like guitar Dad. Hitting the road would be exactly like me throwing away the best gig I ever had over nothing. Not gonna happen, I worked too hard to get here. It's a skill I need to develop, thats all, and I'm up for the challenge. It's not THAT bad, I just have to really listen hard. Playing in time is not the issue, picking out the loop with my hearing is.

I know for sure now, by him walking out in the crowd while the looper is going, (new development) that he is gradually removing my safety net of him being near it to stop it.

I'm not going to let a looper beat me, it's a matter of pride at this point.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
It just dawned on me. What is the bass player doing this looping thing?

Maybe you could just follow him.

.
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Sorry for my bad sentence structure.

What I meant to say was.
Can you follow the bass player when the guitar player is looping?
Just let the bass player follow the loop and you follow the bass player.


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You should write a song about the Looper Blues, of course it must have double meaning like Panama Red or something.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
Sorry for my bad sentence structure.

What I meant to say was.
Can you follow the bass player when the guitar player is looping?
Just let the bass player follow the loop and you follow the bass player.


.
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I am situated between the bass player and the guitar player, so the bass player hearing the loop is even harder than me hearing the loop. Besides, the bass player can't hear that well. He's not the type of player that I would feel confident following. He will play wherever I lead him, time-wise. He is the weak player in the band, but it's not like he sucks. My time is just more developed than his. It's really all on me.

For some reason, I can hear the guitarists leads better than the rhythm loop. When I go out, I take the whole band with me in relation to the loop. If the guitarist would play to the looper instead of me, I would hear myself going out sooner. But I'm not going to say that. I can handle this. He probably can't hear the looper that well either until it's out by a 16th or an 8th.
 
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