Amazing Buddy Rich clip

I really feel like I have to defend BR here which is just wrong of course. Especially me a weekend rank amatuer. But Larry I wonder about this statement:

"Now well played swing has a certain groove, but it's the straight ahead grooving with no skip notes that I would like to hear. Different disciplines."

Why? Even in the Morris interview in the end he says he ended up playing rock and playing it well. What is the point you are making? Just curious basically.
 
shemp said:
I did not type the email that I relayed. I will provide you the email of Lance....the one who relayed that information and you can email him directly...tell him I sent you. And you can get his account of the story I relayed to you. Period.

Lance is a world class drummer that has won awards for his Jazz playing here in Los Angeles and is the finest drummer I have ever seen in person.

I am PMing you with his email...feel free to contact him, He is a far greater authority on this topic than I will ever be.

Regards, Joe...fellow paisono
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no hard feelings Shemp

Buddy is a god to both of us I presume

and this discussion is borderline ridiculous because Buddy was inhuman and could basically do no wrong

...anyway....that solo in the OP is mindblowing to me

Steve Smith said to me once...and I quote.... "Buddy?....Buddy was an alien man "

EDIT: just remembered another quote Steve had about Buddy in the same conversation ....well I didn't remember so I went back to the notebook I was taking notes in that day because I wrote it down....

his exact quote was ..." Buddy ?...Buddy was an alien man....he had what I call the freak element "
 
drummer-russ said:
I really feel like I have to defend BR here which is just wrong of course. Especially me a weekend rank amatuer. But Larry I wonder about this statement:

"Now well played swing has a certain groove, but it's the straight ahead grooving with no skip notes that I would like to hear. Different disciplines."

Why? Even in the Morris interview in the end he says he ended up playing rock and playing it well. What is the point you are making? Just curious basically.
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I took Morris's statement, "and eventually, he played rock and roll. Real good." as a courtesy type of statement, but that's just an impression I got that really doesn't mean anything. I have no interest in knocking Buddy. At the same time, I see no need to tiptoe around things that he wasn't really into. He IS human after all lol. It's just I've never seen him play the rock, "real good". His mind goes 1000 miles an hour and to ask him to keep it under 100....that seems like a big ask for him.

I would gladly abandon my opinion if I saw him kill like a mo fo on some straight ahead grooving. So, mind open, waiting for examples.
 
WhoIsTony? said:
he just could not play styles that were not his native convincingly ....period
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And really, doesn't that go for everyone?

No one plays every single style under the sun as well as an expect in a specific style does.
And few, if anyone, can play a style they just don't dig in any convincing manner.

It's not a knock on anyone, it's reality.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
And really, doesn't that go for everyone?

No one plays every single style under the sun as well as an expect in a specific style does.
And few, if anyone, can play a style they just don't dig in any convincing manner.

It's not a knock on anyone, it's reality.
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if you backed the quote up a bit it would have said just that ....that it's not a knock on Buddy ...it just wasn't his thing

and even when he wasn't playing in his comfort zone he was killing ...... it was just Buddys version of a different style than he was used to
 
DrumEatDrum said:
And really, doesn't that go for everyone?

No one plays every single style under the sun as well as an expect in a specific style does.
And few, if anyone, can play a style they just don't dig in any convincing manner.

It's not a knock on anyone, it's reality.
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Very logical, and likely true in the overwhelming majority of instances....but the original assertion that started this topic within a topic is that "buddy doesn't groove too well"...and for better or worse that is what is being explored here...or what was initially being explored...it seems to have been diluted and lost it's veracity a little.
 
Buddy was a control freak and ego maniac

and even he sought out guidance when delving into a style he did not feel comfortable in

I absolutely love Buddy Rich ..... borderline worship the man

but in my opinion outside of jazz he just never sounded very convincing

which is fine with me..... when I listen to Buddy I'm putting on Big Swing Face not one of his 1970s disco adventures thats for sure
 
Wow nice clip. He looks a little more relaxed here, and is perusing the venue a lot.
The drums also sound a little different to me than usual for Buddy. Maybe its the amateur recording.
I also notice in just about every Buddy clip I've seen, his 18 tom is not really used for much more than a towel holder. True? Maybe it depends on climate of the venue.
Such a great guy to watch.
 
This is just my take on those links....

Domino....If I didn't know this was him I would never have guessed. While the time feel grooves, the drumming choices he makes leaves me kind of flat. He is stepping on soloists and putting too much drummy stuff in there. But the overall time feel taken by itself feels good. So on one hand it feels good but on the other hand he can't not stick out lol. But it is a big band arrangement so that makes it OK I guess. That would not be my first choice as far as a style to do this song in, but I am from a completely different generation than him. I don't feel the song works.

The other song, "A Different Drummer" does groove in spite of the fact that he is playing a zillion notes, so it's definitely not my favorite style of grooving. I'd like to hear him in a trio without a huge band behind him. I don't believe the guy was comfortable with much space between notes, and a lot less of them from what I can tell. Geez it sounds like I'm really railing on him, but I just never realized this stuff before.
 
Just listen to Buddy do brush work and you know he understood space between notes. But the guy was a 'busy' drummer. Some are, some aren't.

I've read where he used his left hand to play trumpet lines. That is the way he heard things and put them physically into play. Like someone above stated, he was thinking at 1000 mph. That's why I mentioned Donati and Lang, and others that think lots of notes in their playing. Just how they interpret the craft. Listen to Buddy in small ensemble playing. He knew when to lay back. But, he never saw a reason to curtail his style or interpretation of the drums in music. Would that all drummers, and all musicians played with that kind of conviction and confidence in what they do.

Vinnie once said he was asked to do a session and they asked him to play like another well-known drummer. He said, "Get him."

You develop a voice and that is your voice. Buddy loved Mel Lewis, about as laid back a drummer as there ever was. That was his voice.
 
Buddy rich was a control freak. I know this first handedly because my dad played is his big band during the early 80s. On one gig, Buddy had a disagreement with the owner of the establishment he was playing at. He didn't want to take orders so right in the middle of the gig, he packed up his band and left. He didn't even finish the tune, he just walked out of there.
He was also a very nasty person with extremely high standards and he yelled at his band if he didn't like their playing. My dad says that the biggest complement he ever got was "not bad." That's not much for the trumpet soloist.

Then again, he was an inhuman legend. So if he does or doesn't play one style well, why does it matter? Why should we focus on the negative parts of a legendary drummer's playing?

I not critiquing anyone here. You guys handled this disagreement very well. I just don't get why some amazing drummers (like Weckl) get so much hate because they lack a minor playing skill when they have mastered so much more? I dont know; just some food for thought.
 
larryace said:
This is just my take on those links....

Domino....If I didn't know this was him I would never have guessed. While the time feel grooves, the drumming choices he makes leaves me kind of flat. He is stepping on soloists and putting too much drummy stuff in there. But the overall time feel taken by itself feels good. So on one hand it feels good but on the other hand he can't not stick out lol. But it is a big band arrangement so that makes it OK I guess. That would not be my first choice as far as a style to do this song in, but I am from a completely different generation than him. I don't feel the song works.

The other song, "A Different Drummer" does groove in spite of the fact that he is playing a zillion notes, so it's definitely not my favorite style of grooving. I'd like to hear him in a trio without a huge band behind him. I don't believe the guy was comfortable with much space between notes, and a lot less of them from what I can tell. Geez it sounds like I'm really railing on him, but I just never realized this stuff before.
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I understand your position on this...sure, he is busy. Sometimes maybe he does step on a clam here or there...

On the other hand, and this may be deemed esoteric in these halls, but when people paid to see buddy, they did not pay to see Peter Erskine (before you start, i love peter erskine's playing...) sitting there, smiling and "vibeing" it out. They paid to see some fury :)

Just a different perspective
 
Drumsinhisheart said:
Just listen to Buddy do brush work and you know he understood space between notes. But the guy was a 'busy' drummer. Some are, some aren't.

I've read where he used his left hand to play trumpet lines. That is the way he heard things and put them physically into play. Like someone above stated, he was thinking at 1000 mph. That's why I mentioned Donati and Lang, and others that think lots of notes in their playing. Just how they interpret the craft. Listen to Buddy in small ensemble playing. He knew when to lay back. But, he never saw a reason to curtail his style or interpretation of the drums in music. Would that all drummers, and all musicians played with that kind of conviction and confidence in what they do.

Vinnie once said he was asked to do a session and they asked him to play like another well-known drummer. He said, "Get him."

You develop a voice and that is your voice. Buddy loved Mel Lewis, about as laid back a drummer as there ever was. That was his voice.
Click to expand...

Buddy absolutely loved Mel

after Buddy had his ....was it second or third bypass surgery ....he would have Mel waiting in the wings during his gigs in case he went down

Mel was his drummer of choice
 
Larry I have always enjoyed your posts and you have added so much to this forum, but REALLY! That's like saying I heard Miles Davis at a funeral playing taps and it just didn't sound right. He just didn't have the feel for it. :>) Or Jimmy Johnson really isn't that good of a race car driver, I saw him at a drag strip and he got beat 3 out of 4 times.

It is obvious that Buddy's heart and soul were into swing, but when a musician has such a total command over his instrument like he did and also had his understanding of music, and his years of experience, how could you for one second doubt his ability to play any style of music, or his ability to groove. Sure he loved swing and big bands but just for one second imagine him on stage next to you in a drum off with any band or any style of music. I've had the opportunity to see him live several times up close and personal and I have never seen anything that would make me doubt that he was not one of the greatest drummers of all times, whether he was playing swing or funk or r&b or whatever.

Not trying to be too hard on you, but I think this is one post you wish you could take back. Best wishes, and hope you have a great holiday season.

Just to be clear I still value your posts, just not this one, but you are still way ahead of the count. John
 
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