Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Great idea, but that implies either one (Metheny or Kenny G) actually sing!
There's gotta be some session rappers for hire. I'm guessing Vanilla Ice could use the work! Oh wait, that would be a scandalous desecration of KGs work, wouldn't it? Or would that be the other way around? Geez this stuff is so confusing!
 
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Exactly. Anyway, it wasn't even written by or for Armstrong. It was written by a couple of industry guys who then shopped it around.

It's not as though Kenny G did an overdub on "Struttin' With Some Barbecue."

It's a testament to how a song put in the right context, here the film Good Morning Viet Nam, can come to have significance separate from the song itself.

There is still enough gray area to make it an interesting discussion, the quality of the song, the charity of the royalties, the red lighting of the estate, freedom in a democratic society for goodness sake. But Metheny is talking about the larger issue and he mentions that in the article. What exactly is the larger issue though? it's the endless exposure that mediocre musicians get at the expense of those with real talent. Well fine and good; but add on top of that the question of who really gets to define a genre.Heck even Richard Thompson agreed with Pat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucgZQGPZOpk

And Kenny G defiled a great name not only supporters of Louie but 'Kennys' everywhere should be up in arms.
 
Thanks Ken for that great link to Richard Thompson's musical jab. Pretty f'n funny!
 
During the mid 1980s I began to listen to Smooth Jazz. I bought a couple of Bob James albums and soon afterwards I had a large collection of hundreds of CDs from the GRP CD club.
I had never really listened to Jazz of any kind before that time! Perhaps a slight curiosity with Buddy Rich from his appearances on late night talk shows, etc.
I had grown up with Rock and Roll like most American kids who were born in 1957 did.

The Smooth Jazz only served to "Whet My Appetite" for exploring Real Jazz.
I began to buy Real Jazz CDs.
I began to study Real Jazz and I fell in love with it!

The Smooth Jazz artist that you purist so readily criticize only served to help convert me to listening to Real Jazz. They became a vessel that changed my musical life!

This is a true story.
I listen to, appreciate, and study Real Jazz today because of people like Kenny G!

Just my ten cents! (I have adjusted the amount for inflation)

I wonder if there are other people out there like me?
 
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What about when that rapper did his thing over Herbie Hancock's Cantaloupe Island?

Sure HH is a latter day icon, not an original trailblazer, but Cantaloupe Island is at least an actual jazz song. Wonderful World is basically a pop song that barely squeezes into jazz ballad territory. GD's quotes about KG's talks with the producer make it clear that KG wasn't approaching it as cynically as people make out.

Strangelove, no, as I said before it is NOT akin to descendants allowing an pop artist to paint over classic artworks. It's more akin to painting over a print. Louie's original remains intact - to be used liberally in schmaltz movies and advertisements. No outcry over that? Of course not - because it's not the evil Kenny G.

I just think there's a massive hate thing about Kenny G and a bunch of people fall in line for the feeding frenzy as a "common enemy" bonding session. It wouldn't matter if he called himself jazz or not - his CDs are still going into the jazz section.

Ok, Kenny's lowered the jazz bar. Big deal. The bar is being lowered in almost every area of life. It's the joy of living in an increasingly overpopulated world with a media that finds the best way to compete is to appeal to the LCD. The standard of public discourse today is pathetic, with very few commentators interested in objective analysis. Instead you get polarised groups pushing their own barrow. Same with this debate.

Objectivity is not dead, it just smells funny.
 
There's gotta be some session rappers for hire. I'm guessing Vanilla Ice could use the work! Oh wait, that would be a scandalous desecration of KGs work, wouldn't it? Or would that be the other way around? Geez this stuff is so confusing!

I don't know.

I found a clip of Metheny playing electronica/industrial music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbbzwJllWJA

I wonder if KMFDM ever posted a rant about how Metheny did it wrong. LOL
 
What about this? Sacrilege! Shocking! To desecrate the name of Duke Ellington this way! Someone get me a glass of water, I feel a little faint. Honestly, I'm not feeling well at all.
 
Excerpt from a satirical observation piece in today's paper:

All this outrage is outrageous
MYF WARHURST
26 March 2010

Ever get the feeling you're living in a world where those bitter old codgers from The Muppets, Statler and Waldorf, are sitting in the balcony seats above tut-tutting about everything? Of late, I do. And it's taking a toll on my mental health.

... enter stage left, Lady Gaga, who is in town at the moment. I'm fairly nonplussed by her music, but I do enjoy her outfits. Particularly her occasional wearing of the lampshade over her head as a fashion statement.

All was going swimmingly for Gaga until some moron in Sydney took their nine-year-old daughter to her gig and was outraged by the sexy content of show, saying it was inappropriate for a younger audience. How about doing some research before the show? Problem solved.

In absolute despair for the world in which I live, I figured, if I can't beat 'em, I'll join 'em. I can be outraged, too. So here goes . . .

I am outraged that sometimes KFC don't put enough salt on their chips, that Barbecue Shapes don't have enough of that green spice on them any more and that this week I was forced to look at yet another picture of Tony Abbott in new swimming togs that revealed he does some ''manscaping''. And that thought leaves me completely and utterly confused about life.​

I guess if Pat just said, "I thought it was pretty tacky and Kenny G isn't my cup of tea" he wouldn't have made an impact on an outrage-addicted media. It's a shame that people have to shout to be heard these days.
 
Ok, Kenny's lowered the jazz bar. Big deal.


Kenny's contribution wasn't even in the jazz bar/arena ballpark by any stretch of the imagination which is the WHOLE crux of the issue to begin with.... LOL!


Playing the music I love and ignoring the banter and social chaos applied to understanding this music is alot more fun in the long run... no pecking order intended over others folks.......just a personal set of guidelines to live {and play music} by.

Let's all sing a happy tune together that everything is just fine without differentiation without question on even ground...... god help us the way the world is going. At least I can have the satisfaction of knowing when i'll be dead I won't have to be around to see that the general population having no clue what is art is anymore and quality in general the way the bar is heading in present times. The defining line between truly good and truly bad is getting more and more murky and clouded as I sit and in front of the computer at present or turn on the TV.. American Idol anyone!

Call me a snob if you wish for stating my firm case and opinion I could care less, at least my sense of reason and set of ears will still be intact till the end..... if it sucks who cares is the credo of the day the way things are heading......
 
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What about this? Sacrilege! Shocking! To desecrate the name of Duke Ellington this way! Someone get me a glass of water, I feel a little faint. Honestly, I'm not feeling well at all.
I found that very amusing and funny!
From all that I have learned about Duke's overall demeanor, I'm sure that he would have had a good laugh also!
 
if it sucks who cares is the credo of the day the way things are heading......
OK Stan, You or I think that a musical performer or performance sucks.
That is still only our opinion. Other people may like it!
There is no reason for us to be angry!
There will always be people that like the music that you like.
If Kenny G gave up music tomorrow and his music was banned it wouldn't make any difference.
It wouldn't make more people flock to Real Jazz.
Real Jazz isn't as pop as other forms of music today. You and I can't change that!
Forcing people to listen to something that they don't appreciate will not change their minds.
 
Steamer said:
Let's all sing a happy tune together that everything is just fine without differentiation without question on even ground

What does that have to do with what's been posted?

Does the existence of Kenny G and the FACT that he is classified as jazz everywhere but in musician circles prevent others from playing music with more substance? Or does all this mean it's now compulsory for us all to play Kenny G music?
 
OK Stan, You or I think that a musical performer of performer sucks.
That is still only our opinion. Other people may like it!
There is no reason for us to be angry!
There will always be people that like the music that you like.
If Kenny G gave up music tomorrow and his music was banned it wouldn't make any difference.
It wouldn't make more people flock to Real Jazz.
Real Jazz isn't as pop as other forms of music today. You and I can't change that!
Forcing people to listen to something that they don't appreciate will not change their minds.


That's not my point at all Bob. If people only get to be subjected to the lowest quality bland tasting fast food available in general at the store how are they to know what a better quality of food taste like if it gets further and further removed out of the general available mix to choose from or get exposed to?

My point is valid even if it comes across rather harsh.......

By the way i'll keep doing what i'm doing regardless which is by personal "attitude" and "choice" towards the pure love of the music that is important to me which is important to remember. I'm long over trying to preach to get converts at this stage of the game but will still stand up for what I know is right and wrong.


Freedom of choice.......which also means exposure to stuff off the beaten track in my view which is more and more getting marginalized in today's society.
 
What does that have to do with what's been posted?

Does the existence of Kenny G and the FACT that he is classified as jazz everywhere but in musician circles prevent others from playing music with more substance? Or does all this mean it's now compulsory for us all to play Kenny G music?


It has no real substance when directly compared to anymore actually applying the art form of jazz in a credible sense. To call it jazz diminishes the efforts and contributions of others in my view to lump it all into one.

Leads to the defining lines getting completely blurred as just stated where the real jazz musicians are asked by the general public why don't you play "jazz" {?} music and tunes just like KG? Crazy s....

Sad road...no winners...for those still in the jazz trenches.
 
That's not my point at all Bob. If people only get to be subjected to the lowest quality bland tasting fast food available in general at the store how are they to know what a better quality of food taste like if it gets further and further removed out of the general available mix to choose from or get exposed to?

My point is valid even if it comes across rather harsh.......

By the way i'll keep doing what i'm doing regardless which is by personal "attitude" and "choice" towards the pure love of the music that is important to me which is important to remember. I'm long over trying to preach to get converts at this stage of the game but will still stand up for what I know is right and wrong.


Freedom of choice.......which also means exposure to stuff off the beaten track in my view which is more and more getting marginalized in today's society.
Smooth Jazz has a low number of followers when you compare it to other forms of Pop Music. Smooth Jazz is just a drop in the ocean of music. It's not a force that is taking the world over.

Everyone has choice, Everyone is exposed to all forms of music. It's not hard to find the music that you like. All that one has to do is go to iTunes and explore.
No music is rammed down anyones throat!
People choose what they like as if they were in a super market.
 
Smooth Jazz has a low number of followers when you compare it to other forms of Pop Music. Smooth Jazz is just a drop in the ocean of music. It's not a force that is taking the world over.

Everyone has choice, Everyone is exposed to all forms of music. It's not hard to find the music that you like. All that one has to do is go to iTunes and explore.
No music is rammed down anyones throat!
People choose what they like as if they were in a super market.

What if the items in question are hidden in the back room?


I made my point.......
 
With all kidding aside, I really don't think that some are getting to the subtlety of Metheny's contention. It's not about smooth jazz vs. real jazz, or I like that vs. you don't like that.

Metheny has no problem with Bob James, Joe Sample, Russ Freeman or Larry Carlton. I myself have always enjoyed certain artists, Grover Washington, David Benoit, George Benson, Al Jarreau, even Wes Montgomery and Steely Dan who were played on the same AOR stations that played smooth jazz back in the day. It was crossover music, and Metheny has always been on of its pioneers.

For Metheny it is about how the tradition is defined and who is defining the tradition and how. That is not a question that is easy to answer but when you have an artist of the caliber of Pat Metheny is stating an opinion, it has a bit more merit than you average Joe. If you don't agree with Metheny, I would ask the question what is it that you really don't agree with and do you really understand what he is saying.

The first thing that any professional musician must grapple with is the reality that music that makes money has a functional purpose, background music in offices and elevators, theater music, or mindless entertainment. The greats have always found a balance between making music of substance and making music that pays the rent. Pat Metheny is an artist who has done that quite well over his 40 year career and is one of the few jazz artists who can actually fill a mid size hall. I think the fact that posters would disrespect him says more than anything else to my 'big ears.'
 
What if the items in question are hidden in the back room?


I made my point.......
There are four College radio stations in my small state that play real Jazz programs almost every day. There are dozens of internet stations that play real jazz 24 hours a day. iTunes has a full selection. Every major city has a night club that has a Jazz night.
Real Jazz is not hard to find.
 
You know, I smell a rat here, Stan. You keep telling us how you've been a professional jazz musician for over thirty years, which means, I take it, that in all that time you've not had to rely on a day job to pay your rent and bills. If that's the case then you're one of the success stories in jazz music. Don't you know that?

In my life I've known great jazz musicians who had to drive taxis and work on landscaping crews to make ends meet. I've also known many, many players who had to play any kind of music except jazz to make a living, including myself.

You, however, are enjoying a career where you get to play the music you love, you're making a living at it, and you have drum and cymbal endorsements. Don't you know how many people would give anything to have your life? So why all this petty angst?

Kenny G and his like have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone's going to buy a Thelonious Monk record, or a Pat Metheny record, or any of the records that you or I have played on.
 
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You know, I smell a rat here, Stan. You keep telling us how you've been a professional jazz musician for over thirty years, which means, I take it, that in all that time you've not had to rely on a day job to pay your rent and bills. If that's the case then you're one of the success stories in jazz music. Don't you know that?

In my life I've known great jazz musicians who had to drive taxis and work on landscaping crews to make ends meet. I've also known many, many players who had to play any kind of music except jazz to make a living, including myself.

You, however, are enjoying a career where you get to play the music you love, you're making a living at it, and you have drum and cymbal endorsements. Don't you know how many people would give anything to have your life? So why all this petty angst?


No angst Jay just trying to put across the idea of commitment which can and does lead to success I have learned. This can be everything from what you believe and willing to put into print to what you bring to the music and not being afraid to say what matters to you and what you believe in which has a different "attitude" at its heart.


Good point Bob and thanks. The situation with the national radio station here in Canada got worse when they decided to "dumb down" the regular jazz features to ultra easy listening smooth "jazz" last year. So yes my personal gripe on the subject has shown its ugly head with good reason...at least in my opinion.
 
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