Bitter Ginger Baker slating Zeppelin and Bonham - again

Add that to the fact that I'm more of a jazz guy, and I just didn't remember his name. I wouldn't expect people that weren't into jazz to remember players like Black Benny, Alvin Stoller, or Connie Kay... You'd just remember the bands they played for.

This is interesting. My collections in jazz are limited, so I knew a few drummers (say Roach, Blakey, Rich, Krupa) but have to admit my lexicon of the many other great jazz drummers grew immensely joining this DW site.
 
In twenty years will be still talking about Bonham?
Yes

Will people be talking about Ginger Baker?

Well let's put it this way, were they talking about him before he opened his mouth recently and upon the release of 'that' documentary!

err nope

People claim he was one of the original double kick players.........listen to Cream, his double kick work was awful !!!
 
Agree completely, Jules. Still, it's good to have a few miserable old pricks around to stir the pot. His comment about half the people in the hall of fame not deserving to be there brought a smile to my face, but most would be too polite to say it.

Rock n Roll Hall of Fame is a farce...........look at Green Day

what a f***ing joke...........will the last person to leave please turn off the lights
 
Ginger Baker was the first John Bonham.
Ginger Baker is no John Bonham.


PS
Clapton is no Page.

PPS
Cream is no Zeppelin!
 
Coming out of left field here. I'm a newbie drummer who has, up until recently at least, not paid too much attention to the drummers in a band unless they really stood out.

I've always liked Led Zep but not loved them. I saw them live at Knebworth in 1979. John Bonham did not stand out to me. But hey, I was just 17 years old.
 
Having seen Cream in April '68 very close up (at the lip of the stage in front of Clapton), I can only say that Baker was a shattering experience.
 
I have a hard time believing Art Blakey or Elvin Jones would waste their time sitting down to a duel with a "mediocre player"

Ummm .... I googled Elvin Jones Ginger Baker and got this:

"On the other hand, exposed to some jackass — i.e., Cream’s Ginger Baker — dishonoring his beloved instrument of choice, Jones shifted about painfully before offering the lost soul some much-needed career advice: “They should make him an astronaut and lose his ass.”"

http://thehighhat.com/Potlatch/004/jones.html
 
My two cents here.

Huge Cream fan, also pretty young relatively speaking. I'm 28, but Cream didn't have the same penetration into the younger "generation" that Led Zeppelin had. So there's going to be more love for Zeppelin naturally. I personally think Cream was better. They were better musicians across the board (Clapton > Page, Bruce > JPJ, Baker > Bonham, Bruce > Plant). Zeppelin however wrote better songs, and had much better production. I'd say that Zeppelin was better in the studio, but Cream killed it live.

Bonham definitely had this deep pocket thing that Baker didn't have, but I felt that as far as pure chops and versatility goes, Baker wins, and I'm talking about the Cream period, not what he's done since then. I'll take Toad over Moby Dick any day.

EDIT: I do agree that Baker is a big douche though. There's no denying that.
 
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Was he that notable? I didn't meant to offend anyone, I'm in my 30s, when I was growing up Led Zeppelin was considered "Jock Rock". I've listened to them, but nothing has really stood out to me, and they were never that big in the circles I grew up in.

Add that to the fact that I'm more of a jazz guy, and I just didn't remember his name. I wouldn't expect people that weren't into jazz to remember players like Black Benny, Alvin Stoller, or Connie Kay... You'd just remember the bands they played for.

I'm not a fan of poetry, but I'm familiar with Alan Ginsberg and William Carlos Williams, you know?

Absolutely no offense taken - by anyone here, I'm certain. I was being a bit of a wiseacre, but it's actually more interesting to me that a drummer has NOT heard of Bonham. Sort of refreshing in a way.

Still, though I'm not a jazz guy, I am very familiar with the huge names of the genre - Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, Max Roach, etc. (actually listening to 'M'Boom' right now) - and Bonham fills a similar role in the rock pantheon: a big name that has spilled over a little into popular culture, not just drum culture. (Whether he deserves it or not is a completely different question; I'm just talking popularity.)

You're 100% correct about the names you mention above - I'm not overly familiar with any of them. Their rock parallels are probably guys like Mac McNeilly, Matt Sorum, and Jon Stanier: three of my faves, amazing drummers in some amazing bands, but for various reasons, not popular enough to be readily recognized by anyone other than die-hard fans.
 
I think a lot of people here totally underrate how "influential" a drummer and musician Ginger Baker was. He brought so much to the table when was in bands such as the Graham Bond Organization (actually Organisation), but especially Cream and Blind Faith. If I had to cite one thing I would say his approach to beats stands out the most but there is oh, so much more.

And I totally get that people don't like GB the person...he's a bitter, nasty person who really has no one else to blame but himself. Hell, his musical soul-mate, Jack Bruce, hated him to death. I'm sure Bruce died hating GB. But make no mistake GB changed the way many other musicians--including Clapton and Bruce, approached their music. Clapton admits as much in that documentary about GB. He referred to GB as a full-formed musician. Stewart Copeland did too.

And by the way, how many other drummer's have their own documentary -- I think that say's it all.

So when you hear BG say something awful about another drummer or whomever -- laugh at it. Its very funny. Its not like its your dad embarrassing you. And for those who need reminding, go back and listen to Cream and try and try and do so in the context of 1966.
 
Hardly, he's in the pantheon, and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Especially once he's dead, he'll be permanently fixed.

That depends. The targeted audience for news on him, then yes. For everyone else who doesn't know or care who he is, well no...

I think when you spew enough venom, especially in your 70's and you're not doing anything viable, people stop caring or listening. Just my 2 pesos.
 
Clapton vs Paige
Baker vs Bonham

Seriously?

Most guitarists can play the beginning of Stairway to Heaven or early Clapton stuff. Many could play it with better technique than Page or Clapton did when they laid the tracks down. Those guitarists aren't better than Clapton or Page. That's not how things work.

What's important to you? If they're great guitarists or drummers, or if they're great musicians?
I know 3 of the 4 recorded music that fit so perfectly with the piece they helped create, that the music is always available in my memory. They're burnt in.
While he seems technically proficient, nothing ever burnt in for me because of Baker's playing. The drumming was there, but it wasn't the reason the music registered. On the other hand, I can always hear this intro in my mind if I want to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbrjRKB586s

So for me, Baker vs Bonham is solved. I still loose sleep over C. Norris vs C. Kent though.
 
What do Ginger Baker and black coffee have in common?
They both suck without Cream.
 
I won't dump on JB's drumming at all even though i am not a fan.. but i really can't find good things to say about someone that drinks them self to death..

And Ginger Baker was a heroin junkie.
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/jan/05/ginger-baker-cream-interview
Baker gained a reputation as the most uncontrollable musician on the scene – a cadaverous, red-headed giant with a reputation for belligerence, a heroin addict like his jazz heroes, a man with strings of girlfriends, a neglected wife,
It that any better?

Steve Gadd used to be a cocaine addict.
And the list goes on.
 
Old people, nowadays. Something should be done.
 
lmfao
Old people, nowadays. Something should be done.
yea ! old people should all be put in a special home , far away from everyone else !
oh , wait . i am old!
never mind :)
 
Leave old' Ginge alone, he was a Pioneer and I don't see what the big deal is.since when are Drummers supposed to be politically correct? Sheesh young people , you sound like my parents.
 
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