Dealing with a band member you don't like

drummindan8484

Senior Member
I've been playing in church with the band (under my dad's leadership) at their new contemporary service since this past February, and it has truly been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. I've learned so much about playing with other musicians, and the people are just truly stellar. However, after 6 months of greatness, a problem arose.

A 4th vocalist approached my dad about joining a few months ago, and while she was away for most of the summer in the fascinating state of South Dakota, she just started practicing with us and sang with us for the first time 2 weeks ago. While I have only met her 3 times (2 practices and 1 rehearsal), she's already starting to piss me off. The first time we practiced with her, I had no problem with her. Can't say I liked her, but she didn't bother me either. The 2nd time, I just noticed that she seemed a bit odd and was trying to act all rockstarish during some of the songs. A few days after that, she sends my dad an email complaining about our strongest singer's voice being "operatic" and having too much "verbato" (yes that's how she spelled it) and blamed her inability to sing harmony on the other woman's voice. This is not my responsibility, I know, but this really pissed me off, as the woman she was criticizing is truly an awesome person and is very very talented. Then the next Sunday at practice, she seriously had the audacity to ask our soundman to to turn my dad's voice down in the monitors. Then she continues to bitch about the monitor mix to one of the other singers. I'm seriously concerned for what this woman is gonna say or do next, and I already have this awful feeling that she's starting to change the dynamic of the group. I trust my dad to handle things as needed, but still this is really pissing me off.

So here's the question. What's the easiest way to deal with a band member you dislike? Do I just ignore her (it's very easy), do I try to like her and maybe look for positives, or do I just hope that she quits (been doing it already)?
 
Having dealt with a diva in one of my bands for several years I can only say this,
GOOD LUCK!
There is no solution that wouldn't break one of the Ten Commandments. :)

Just do what I do, I play the drums and I agree with everything that she says weather she is right or wrong.

In time the other members or your father will show her the door.
 
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Couple of thoughts here. First, it appears to be your dad's band, and son or not, you're a hired gun. If she does something specifically targeting you with bad attitude, then I would bring it up, either to her or to your dad; until then, it's exclusively his problem to deal with or not as he sees fit.

Second, you're in a worship band in a church. Such bands are extremely fortunate if they get one or two musicians with professional music experience. Most of the rest of the performers are amateurs with varying degrees of musical talent and maturity. The trick is taking all this raw talent and synthesizing it into something that enables the church body to connect with God. The egos of the musicians are somewhere around dead last in consideration. She may just need a bit of mentorship to understand this. As far as the vocal mix in the monitors - I myself nearly always shut off every vocal except the leader's, and his is just loud enough to hear to keep verse and chorus separate. Is that because I don't like him or think he's a bad vocalist? No - it's just not what I need to hear. A backing vocalist turning down the leader in the wedges is not usual, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, nor automatically think of it as disrespect.
 
Al was right, you're practically a hired gun. You may feel a sense of responsibility being the leader's son, but that doesn't mean much more than the fact you're related.

My advice would be to chill out. Unless she targets you with her diva-ness, let everything happen. Trust your dad to have the wisdom to approach this whole thing correctly, if he finds it a problem.
 
She hasn't even said anything to you and she's peeing you off already? I think you'd do best to ignore her, and kinda "let the baby have her way". Any involvement by you with your mouth isn't going to be good. Think of it as a lesson God wants you to learn about being humble and accepting that which you cannot change. This is not your battle, just observe.
 
Couple of thoughts here. First, it appears to be your dad's band, and son or not, you're a hired gun. If she does something specifically targeting you with bad attitude, then I would bring it up, either to her or to your dad; until then, it's exclusively his problem to deal with or not as he sees fit.

Second, you're in a worship band in a church. Such bands are extremely fortunate if they get one or two musicians with professional music experience. Most of the rest of the performers are amateurs with varying degrees of musical talent and maturity. The trick is taking all this raw talent and synthesizing it into something that enables the church body to connect with God. The egos of the musicians are somewhere around dead last in consideration. She may just need a bit of mentorship to understand this. As far as the vocal mix in the monitors - I myself nearly always shut off every vocal except the leader's, and his is just loud enough to hear to keep verse and chorus separate. Is that because I don't like him or think he's a bad vocalist? No - it's just not what I need to hear. A backing vocalist turning down the leader in the wedges is not usual, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, nor automatically think of it as disrespect.

I honestly am going to try and reply to all of these individually because these are all excellent. This one caught my attention the most so I'll start here:

1. You are right about the amateurs and all that. Our keyboardist is a trained church organist, was the organist at this church for years and plays quite frequently since the current organist at the traditional service is terminally ill. Other than him, none are really professional. All are good though.
2. The monitors are completely out of our control, our soundman controls everything. Truthfully, if she were one of the ones that were there from the beginning and I hadn't seen all the other crap she's done, this wouldn't have bothered me as badly. When you're new though, it's a pretty big stretch. And couldn't she have asked to have herself turned up? Anyway, we're changing our sound setup so that the way the mix sounds in the monitors is the same way that it sounds out front, so this could shut her up.
 
Al was right, you're practically a hired gun. You may feel a sense of responsibility being the leader's son, but that doesn't mean much more than the fact you're related.

My advice would be to chill out. Unless she targets you with her diva-ness, let everything happen. Trust your dad to have the wisdom to approach this whole thing correctly, if he finds it a problem.

He sent her an email after I told him that she told the sound man to turn him down, and he was probably just as pissed as I was for the same reason. The other women never once asked such a thing. They would complain from time to time about not being able to hear themselves, and that is largely due to the inexperience of our soundman, but it never bothered him. And he did call her on criticizising the other woman's voice. But the problem is, email's aren't really that effective as far as getting your real tone across and the email (I saw it) seemed a bit wimpy in the word choice.

I am definitely concerned for this week though, as our first bass player is playing with us again after being out 4 months for a torn rotator cuff, and he will undeniably be rusty since we've learned so many new songs since he first injured himself, and I really don't want her to say anything.
 
I honestly am going to try and reply to all of these individually because these are all excellent. This one caught my attention the most so I'll start here:

1. You are right about the amateurs and all that. Our keyboardist is a trained church organist, was the organist at this church for years and plays quite frequently since the current organist at the traditional service is terminally ill. Other than him, none are really professional. All are good though.
2. The monitors are completely out of our control, our soundman controls everything. Truthfully, if she were one of the ones that were there from the beginning and I hadn't seen all the other crap she's done, this wouldn't have bothered me as badly. When you're new though, it's a pretty big stretch. And couldn't she have asked to have herself turned up? Anyway, we're changing our sound setup so that the way the mix sounds in the monitors is the same way that it sounds out front, so this could shut her up.

Ah, organs... the classic "church" instrument, and the cause of so many train wrecks, unless you've got them in monitors. In the one church band I played in with an organ and a trained organist, the worship leader loved to have her start out songs. What I could never get across to him was that, due to the muddy room acoustics and the organ not being in the monitors at all, I could never hear her individual notes well enough to pick out the tempo she was playing.

As far as monitors and soundmen and control, again, this is part and parcel of the worship leader's responsibilities. If he notices that the sound guy can't get it dialed in, it's up to him to fix it, and this means anything and everything from having him trained/retrained, to replacing him. A great long-term investment for your worship team is true personal monitor systems with in-ear sound. I would actually invest in that ahead of new drums or cymbals.

Looks like your dad is getting the message about this one person, but I would advise caution and restraint. Nothing will poison a worship team more than getting a reputation as a political clique. I don't think any worship team should be forced to accept anyone with ego or talent issues, and there should be room for musical growth on the team. But for anyone to have a diva attitude in a worship team is to completely miss the point of worship in the first place. Lots of luck with this!
 
Why dont you piss her off in rehearshals? :p Maybe everytime she starts singing go into some animal style drum solo, it doesnt even have to sound good... it will just really piss her off!! :D haha!
 
"Instant Diva®" Just add microphone!

Seriously, I have never played a church service where there isn't somebody...err......mmm......uh......*quirky* involved, usually one of the singers. She sounds very assertive and irritating. Be ready to stand up for what is right/polite/courteous, but don't make the initial move (you'll ALWAYS lose to a diva if there is no backup...)

Oh man...good luck! You'll need it.
 
I see that Caddy and I have both shared similar experiences. :)
Trust us, You will not win this one! Keep your mouth shut and play your drums.
 
Al has given great advice here. I agree with the monitor setting- I, too, just like piano, only one guitar and only one vocal in my monitor mix when playing at church. It's not a like/ dislike thing, it's just all I need to keep track of where we are in the songs.
I also agree with having to deal with many levels of musical ability when playing at church. I once had to play with a bassist at my church that I absolutely could not stand! She just could not play and would single-handedly create huge train wrecks on a regular basis. She wouldn't show up for practice and would only come to church when she was up to play. I couldn't understand why our praise leader kept her for so long. I finally came to understand that it wasn't really for me to understand. I just reminded myself to remain christian and treated her as nicely as possible. Believe me, not easy to do on some days!
The "rockstar" issue- very hard especially for younger members to leave at the curb in a church setting. I've seen this many times and I believe that the praise leader could play a part in minimizing this through, maybe, opening prayer before practice reminding people of why they are there? I've seen this work. I have also been known to pull people to the side and reminded them of why we are there (this was done in a mentorship type of way, not out of hostility).
I wish you the best of luck with this. Try not to let the issue get you off track!
 
Ah, organs... the classic "church" instrument, and the cause of so many train wrecks, unless you've got them in monitors. In the one church band I played in with an organ and a trained organist, the worship leader loved to have her start out songs. What I could never get across to him was that, due to the muddy room acoustics and the organ not being in the monitors at all, I could never hear her individual notes well enough to pick out the tempo she was playing.

As far as monitors and soundmen and control, again, this is part and parcel of the worship leader's responsibilities. If he notices that the sound guy can't get it dialed in, it's up to him to fix it, and this means anything and everything from having him trained/retrained, to replacing him. A great long-term investment for your worship team is true personal monitor systems with in-ear sound. I would actually invest in that ahead of new drums or cymbals.

Looks like your dad is getting the message about this one person, but I would advise caution and restraint. Nothing will poison a worship team more than getting a reputation as a political clique. I don't think any worship team should be forced to accept anyone with ego or talent issues, and there should be room for musical growth on the team. But for anyone to have a diva attitude in a worship team is to completely miss the point of worship in the first place. Lots of luck with this!


He doesn't play the organ in our band, he really caught on to the modern style of keyboard playing quick, he's an excellent player. I only used that to reinforce what you said about the lack of professional musicians in most church groups.

No in-ears. More trouble than they're worth. Dad agrees. One of our old churches he's played at (we've been to a few) wanted to try that and they never did, but he was always opposed to it. The sound at this past service sounded much better than before, so I think we'll just stick with what we're doing.

On the other hand, some good news about this. Yesterday my dad emailed all 4 of them for their upcoming availability to start rotating them and he wrote out the schedule this morning and showed it to me. She's singing with us this week, then gone for 3 weeks, then 2 weeks in a row after that, then off 1 week, then 1 on again. So it sounds like she'll be off just as much as she's on, and when she's not there it probably won't bother me as much.
 
This is a very poisonous person. Get the other people in the band together and approach the band leader and tell them this person just isn't working out and affecting the band's dynamics in bad ways. All of you should be prepared to leave the band immediately if you don't get what you want. You have some power here - get together and use it to protect what you love.
 
I'll throw in my lot with alparrott & larryace and suggest this is an "opportunity" to learn some patience. That's strictly because this is a praise band and any other I would drop it. If you're asked, make honest and constructive advice, but try to be the best possible example of composure for yourself. It sounds like the rest of the band can rub off some humble examples and you may all benefit over time. If the music is seriously suffering, ask the sound guy to record your Sundays and have the band listen to it and give feedback. Try not to do this in an attacking manner and give some examples of where your playing needs to strengthen as much as possible. Approaching it from what's best for the music may get some points across without any egos being hurt.

It sounds frustrating, but I wouldn't want anyone, previous member or her, to feel unwelcome in this case. I doubt God cares if someone's out of key and their heart's in the right place, that's just for us to cringe over.
 
The "rockstar" issue- very hard especially for younger members to leave at the curb in a church setting. I've seen this many times and I believe that the praise leader could play a part in minimizing this through, maybe, opening prayer before practice reminding people of why they are there? I've seen this work. I have also been known to pull people to the side and reminded them of why we are there (this was done in a mentorship type of way, not out of hostility).
!

Age has nothing to do with this, she's probably one of the oldest of us. I'm only 20 and I don't consider myself has having a rockstar attitude, and one of our guitarists is 15 and barely says a word.

We always open with prayer before practice, both on our longer Wednesday practices and our final 30 minute practice on Sunday morning. Obviously this didn't help.

Thanks for all the advice guys, it really means a lot. Since seeing the schedule made me realize that she's probably gonna be off as much as she's on, I think I'll just see how this works out. I'd only resort to asking other band members about problems with her if she really does something horrible. The ones who I'm concerned about are the 3 women that came forward from the beginning, they clearly have become friends and I really wonder what they think about her (other than the one who is her boss).

ETA: She switched her next singing week to next Sunday, so I'm getting a nice little break actually (this will be week 3). I also suggested to my dad (and he agreed) to keep the changes in the sound setup completely confidential when she's around, as if she hears about it she may think she's having influence and is important and could get worse.

ETA 2: That thing I just said about the sound system may be completely irrelevant as we decided to go back to our old way of doing things of separate mixes in the monitors and the mains. We tried it tonight with everything including the bass, which was the only thing before that wasn't going through the system, and it sounded absolutely atrocious. And loud. I actually would have worn ear plugs had I had them. Keep in mind this is with me on an electronic kit. Not really relevant to this conversation per se, just wanted to throw it out there as it really made practice less enjoyable.
 
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I have to say I agree with all the others here. This is definitely an opportunity to learn patience. I play drums for my church too and we also have a diva, actually a married couple. Imagine the Howell's from Gilligan's Island...crank it up about 20 notches. They are the most arrogant d-bags I've ever met. Thankfully they only sing every couple weeks or so.

Just tune it out and focus on what you are there for.
 
Age has nothing to do with this, she's probably one of the oldest of us. I'm only 20 and I don't consider myself has having a rockstar attitude, and one of our guitarists is 15 and barely says a word.

We always open with prayer before practice, both on our longer Wednesday practices and our final 30 minute practice on Sunday morning. Obviously this didn't help.

Thanks for all the advice guys, it really means a lot. Since seeing the schedule made me realize that she's probably gonna be off as much as she's on, I think I'll just see how this works out. I'd only resort to asking other band members about problems with her if she really does something horrible. The ones who I'm concerned about are the 3 women that came forward from the beginning, they clearly have become friends and I really wonder what they think about her (other than the one who is her boss).

ETA: She switched her next singing week to next Sunday, so I'm getting a nice little break actually (this will be week 3). I also suggested to my dad (and he agreed) to keep the changes in the sound setup completely confidential when she's around, as if she hears about it she may think she's having influence and is important and could get worse.

ETA 2: That thing I just said about the sound system may be completely irrelevant as we decided to go back to our old way of doing things of separate mixes in the monitors and the mains. We tried it tonight with everything including the bass, which was the only thing before that wasn't going through the system, and it sounded absolutely atrocious. And loud. I actually would have worn ear plugs had I had them. Keep in mind this is with me on an electronic kit. Not really relevant to this conversation per se, just wanted to throw it out there as it really made practice less enjoyable.

The sound man should have final say on all matters involving mixing and amplification. Back him up on that. There are good technical and social reasons for this.
 
The sound man should have final say on all matters involving mixing and amplification. Back him up on that. There are good technical and social reasons for this.

In general, this is true, but not really for us. For a few reasons:

1. He had never run sound prior to this

2. He knows very little about music

3. He's a volunteer while my dad is a paid part time employee of the church

4. The main reason he's even there is because his wife is one of the singers and he wanted to say he's "part of the band". At first, he would just set up the PA and leave, then he asked my dad if he could run the mixer. I'm not knocking him in any way, shape or form, he's a great guy and he's torn down our entire PA within 5 minutes by himself before. I'm just saying that the image most people have of "sound guy" is not what you're really getting with him.

What I'm about to do may be worthy of it's own thread in the "Your Place" section , but since we're having this lengthy of a discussion about, I'd figured I'd post this so you all can hear what we sound like! This is from our first service back in February before this lady joined,I think we sound better now overall then we did back then but this is the only thing we have that's on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBpBpAu4UTQ&feature=player_embedded
 
Several great responses in this thread. I'd be interested to hear how this progresses as time goes on.
 
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