Choosing my career path...

Hey everyone! I'm new here. Just wanted to start out with a brief bio and maybe get some advice from everyone. I'm 20yrs old and have been playing drums for small local bands and churches for the past 7yrs. Just like any other drummer, I've spent a good chunk of money on equipment over the years between cymbals, sticks, heads, and entire kits.

I put a band together 3 years ago and it has been my main focus since then. We have had the privilege of playing at many of the larger venues here in Atlanta, including the Masquerade. As a drummer, I have also done some side gigs with local artists who were seeking collabs. Currently, my band is in the process of recording our first EP to be packaged into a nice press kit. We have waited a while since recording demos before deciding to do an EP because of lineup changes. Anyway, now that you know a bit about it, let me discuss my dilemma....

I live in Georgia, one of the top breeding grounds for successful hip-hop/r&b artists in the states. I think the largest names to come out of here for Rock are Sevendust and Cartel, neither of which are very "large" bands in the sense of popularity. It is SO HARD to find musicians here that are talented and willing to produce quality music that challenges today's current styles. I love all genres, but I steer my music towards Alternative Rock because it reaches to a larger audience. I love to make music with such a sound that some one who has only listened to rap all their life could appreciate it. Bands that I feel have accomplished this are Linkin Park, Chilli Peppers, Three Days Grace, Disturbed, Nickelback, etc.

My band has been approached many times after shows by people promoting their studio or management companies. I have turned down 80% of the offers not because I feel like they will scam us, but because I don't feel that my band is ready. As a musician, you know when you are playing quality music, and you know what has potential for world tours versus what will remain a local legend opening for nationals. On top of Georgia not having a good pool of available musicians, the dedication is non-existent. These guys have NO DEDICATION, AT ALL. In the past 4 years, I have not played in a single band where every member was determined to make things happen. There's always 1 or 2 that drag everything down. The only reason my band is still together after 3 years is the fact that I took the reigns 2 years ago and decided to push us forward. I was able to connect with local promoters and booking agents which at one point lead to solid gigs every other week. We gained much exposure in short period of time.

The problem I am facing now is that after 3 years, the dedication from my other band mates is still not there. I have invested hundreds into mics, speakers, mixers, studio time, etc. to keep us moving and improving. I just can't do it anymore. Enough is enough. Our mic cord has been shorting in and out for the past 4 months. I refuse to replace it, and my lazy singers tells me week after week, "I'll get one". I've also got a cocky bass player who thinks the music industry is cake and he's basically getting to the point where he dosen't want to play non-paid gigs, as if he is some sort of celebrity. When will it end!?!?

I just purchased a new 16" A custom on Friday, and I think I may return it. Just so you guys know, I am a network administrator for a large dental practice here in Georgia. Needless to say, I make good money for my age. I could quit music, work my 8-to-5 and live a good life. Maybe music isn't my calling. I could work, play games, paintball/airsoft, go bike riding, drive a nice car. Why put myself through this headache? Is it just Georiga? Maybe I should move? I'm running out of options, and I can't justify investing more money into equipment if the majority of my playing will be in my living room...

How do you guys feel about this? Anyone else experience this road block? What did you do about it?

Honestly? I think that if you're more into playing for the career opportunities that you think might be there, as opposed to playing for the love of it, then you're in it for the wrong reasons.

Fact is that 99.99% of players are never going to see a comfortable income from playing their instruments.

My advice would be either to sell all your gear and avoid the avalanche of headaches that have already started, or find a way to relax and enjoy what you're doing. Frankly, I'm stunned that you'd consider returning an awesome cymbal because you don't think there's a path to riches in the "biz" which makes me lean toward selling everything else along with it.

Also, you can tip your hat to Nickleback for their successful business model, but acknowledge that they have awful songwriting and no artistic credibility. You want to make money - go to college and/or start a business.

Oh, and welcome to Drummerworld!

It's not just Georgia. Or just you.

Welcome to the music business.

Hang out here long enough, and you'll read many stories with similar themes.

In 90's I moved to Los Angeles. I joined a band that worked hard, we practiced like crazy, gigged a lot, earned a decent following, and attracted a lot of record company interest. We played in front of every record label in existence at the time. But still, there always certain members who weren't really into it and held back, or quit as things were going good.

So the two of us who were the most dedicated dis-banned that band and started a new band with a different sound. Very quickly, we build a whole new reputation around town and were in the process of negotiating with a record company as a duo. Then my partner in the band had some issues with drinking, and well, it all fell apart.

I was in another band on the side that was just for fun. No objectives other than to play a few gigs. It was just some friends looking to have a good time and nothing more. Well, we had a few very successful gigs, and suddenly certain people in the band thought we were gods gift to the music scene and it quickly fell apart.

I don't know. Keeping a band together is extremely difficult.

But that's not to say you shouldn't try. You're young. If you give it up, you'll hate yourself later on. You have a good day job, you're not having financial problems. You just need to decide if these are the players for YOUR band.

I can't justify investing more money into equipment if the majority of my playing will be in my living room...

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At 40, I've spent more on music equipment in the last 5 years then ever before, and none of it will ever leave my house (well, most of it is recording equipment, so it doesn't travel well). It's good for the soul. It keeps me sane. Their is no career objective. I just do it because it's what I like to do.

The other side of this is, do you write the songs? If not, take some music theory classes. Learn a kit of guitar and keys. Drum parts are not subject to copywrite laws. The last thing you want to do is finance and push a band to the top and then find out you don't own any of the songs.

In my view the most important thing is to have the right people for the job. If they're not 100% committed, they have to go. To entertain any other idea is to invite stagnation, and you will agonise about what to do for months. Just fire them. If you're in charge, find someone better. That's it.

MikeM said:

Honestly? I think that if you're more into playing for the career opportunities that you think might be there, as opposed to playing for the love of it, then you're in it for the wrong reasons.

Fact is that 99.99% of players are never going to see a comfortable income from playing their instruments.

My advice would be either to sell all your gear and avoid the avalanche of headaches that have already started, or find a way to relax and enjoy what you're doing. Frankly, I'm stunned that you'd consider returning an awesome cymbal because you don't think there's a path to riches in the "biz" which makes me lean toward selling everything else along with it.

Also, you can tip your hat to Nickleback for their successful business model, but acknowledge that they have awful songwriting and no artistic credibility. You want to make money - go to college and/or start a business.

Oh, and welcome to Drummerworld!

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I just want to point out that nowhere in my post did I mention making money in music. I even expressed anger towards my bass player who only wants to do paid gigs. I simply said I want to reach larger audiences. Please take the time to read before responding with words that are borderline rude and provide no guidance or motivation.

DrumEatDrum said:

At 40, I've spent more on music equipment in the last 5 years then ever before, and none of it will ever leave my house (well, most of it is recording equipment, so it doesn't travel well). It's good for the soul. It keeps me sane. Their is no career objective. I just do it because it's what I like to do.

The other side of this is, do you write the songs? If not, take some music theory classes. Learn a kit of guitar and keys. Drum parts are not subject to copywrite laws. The last thing you want to do is finance and push a band to the top and then find out you don't own any of the songs.

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I sing and write music also. Maybe I should take a break from drums and try my luck as a front man.... I love to sing, but have never been lead vocals for a group, mostly because I couldn't get my self to leave the drums lol. And singing while drumming is a pain at times.

In the original music game, there are always differing motivations. Some are there to live out their rockstar dream, some just want to hang out and party, some want attention from the opposite sex, and some want a career. You probably won't find similarly motivated people who also share your musical taste, in any city.

This might seem like taking the long way, but have you considered educating yourself such that the other musicians are replaceable? What I mean is that, if you learned to play guitar to a decent level, then you and the singer can write the material, have friends over for home-recording sessions, and gig out with whomever is available. There are plenty of musicians who want to play gigs in any city (although they may not love your music as much as you do, or fit your ideal image). If the material is recorded (and possibly charted out), then there's no need to rehearse in order to learn the songs, which means less work for whomever is hired for the gig, which will attract a higher caliber player, and so on.

If you did write songs, and have any success in this part of the music biz, then you would be able to retain some of your copyright and publishing rights, in order to earn royalties.

It's normal to wonder if all of this is worth it when you have a decent job already. There is a very natural human desire to be very good at something outside of your daily work. I humbly suggest you examine your approach to the conquest of the music biz. Try not to vent your frustrations on your bandmates; you risk developing a bad reputation among your peers.

Drumeatdrum is right.....it's difficult keeping a good band together. I have been with the bass player in our band now for 14 years and I can't count on all my toes and fingers of how many musicians/singers have come and gone!

If it's not women problems it's booze or drugs.....not to mention the inflated egos that some had.

I play for the fun of it and will continue until it's not fun anymore.....or start playing more than twice a month. I have other things I like to do.

Good luck with your decision.

Whatever you choose to do I suggest taking this old cliche and really apply it...

A labor of love is no labor at all... Whatever you choose to do in life, if you have the chance to find that labor of love you will be "Winning", Thanks Charlie!

brentcn said:

In the original music game, there are always differing motivations. Some are there to live out their rockstar dream, some just want to hang out and party, some want attention from the opposite sex, and some want a career. You probably won't find similarly motivated people who also share your musical taste, in any city.

This might seem like taking the long way, but have you considered educating yourself such that the other musicians are replaceable? What I mean is that, if you learned to play guitar to a decent level, then you and the singer can write the material, have friends over for home-recording sessions, and gig out with whomever is available. There are plenty of musicians who want to play gigs in any city (although they may not love your music as much as you do, or fit your ideal image). If the material is recorded (and possibly charted out), then there's no need to rehearse in order to learn the songs, which means less work for whomever is hired for the gig, which will attract a higher caliber player, and so on.

If you did write songs, and have any success in this part of the music biz, then you would be able to retain some of your copyright and publishing rights, in order to earn royalties.

It's normal to wonder if all of this is worth it when you have a decent job already. There is a very natural human desire to be very good at something outside of your daily work. I humbly suggest you examine your approach to the conquest of the music biz. Try not to vent your frustrations on your bandmates; you risk developing a bad reputation among your peers.

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Well said. I sing and write. I've got a few numbers in my phone for some guys that are solid players that would actually show up if I needed them. I could do what you said and start my own recording sessions. I think they would like be called "hey, come lay out a riff for me" aha. This may be something to fuel my need for music. And it seems like it would be loads of fun.

I may step away from gigging all together, and just make songs that will uploaded to a site for my friends and anyone else to listen to. If it gets enough attention, then yea I could call up some people to perform them live. Maybe playing with different musicians instead of the same ones everyday will enable me to filter out the players who hold me back. Instead of replacing a band mate and having to spend weeks in hibernation regrouping.

i feel your pain. but i would talk to Richie Torrance in the band Sun Domingo here in GA who is doing it (touring in Europe right now): http://www.sundomingo.com/

jamaul08 said:

I just want to point out that nowhere in my post did I mention making money in music. I even expressed anger towards my bass player who only wants to do paid gigs. I simply said I want to reach larger audiences. Please take the time to read before responding with words that are borderline rude and provide no guidance or motivation.

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I did take the time to read your entire screed before posting, so let’s look at this some more.

I love all genres, but I steer my music towards Alternative Rock because it reaches to a larger audience.

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Because it reaches the largest possible audience? How is aiming for the lowest common denominator not at least implicitly chasing the almighty dollar? It’s not that I have anything against making money at what you’re doing. But I do have a problem when making money becomes the primary motivator for playing the drums, but that’s just me; everyone’s different.

It sounds like your bass player might have issues with playing for free and you apparently don’t, but I’d wager that that has more to do with you being more concerned about more exposure and getting the band another rung up the ladder. Again, nothing necessarily wrong with that.

…As a musician, you know when you are playing quality music, and you know what has potential for world tours versus what will remain a local legend opening for nationals.

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Again, statements like this make it appear that you’re much more concerned with rock-star ambitions than anything else, regardless of whether it has any artistic merit.

On top of Georgia not having a good pool of available musicians, the dedication is non-existent. These guys have NO DEDICATION, AT ALL. In the past 4 years, I have not played in a single band where every member was determined to make things happen.

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Some of the most creative people I know are flaky in the extreme. It often comes with the “talent.” In 30 years of playing, I’ve not played in a single band where everyone was so determined. And I’ve had precious little downtime over those 3 decades.

I just purchased a new 16" A custom on Friday, and I think I may return it. Just so you guys know, I am a network administrator for a large dental practice here in Georgia. Needless to say, I make good money for my age. I could quit music, work my 8-to-5 and live a good life. Maybe music isn't my calling. I could work, play games, paintball/airsoft, go bike riding, drive a nice car. Why put myself through this headache? Is it just Georiga? Maybe I should move? I'm running out of options

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The beauty of it is that you don’t have to quit your 8-5; that job enables you to do what you want musically. Doesn’t mean you have to give up promoting and shopping yourself around. It just sounds to me like you’re trying to choose drumming as a nice vocation and are realizing how frustrating that can be – like you’re choosing drumming (or music) as a means to an end and not an end in itself.

Would you really give up drumming for paintball and nice cars? Seriously? Wow.

…and I can't justify investing more money into equipment if the majority of my playing will be in my living room…

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Again, based on this statement, I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that you were anticipating a return on your investment.

The thing about playing in your living room / basement / practice room is that’s where the vast majority of the creative work gets done, and anything worth promoting can only come after many hours here. I would love to spend more time in the “shed” so to speak.

Oh, and like most on here, what I've made off of playing is absolutely dwarfed by what I've spent in it. Dwarfed.

How do you guys feel about this?

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Only other thing I would ask is that you notice the linguistic pattern here:

Currently, my band…
…but I steer my music towards Alternative Rock because it reaches to a larger audience…
My band has been approached…
…I have turned down 80% of the offers not because I feel like they will scam us, but because I don't feel that my band is ready…
The only reason my band is still together after 3 years is the fact that I took the reigns 2 years ago…
The problem I am facing now is that after 3 years, the dedication from my other band mates…
I have invested hundreds into mics, speakers…
...my lazy singers tells me week after week…
I've also got a cocky bass player who thinks the music industry...

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It seems that you have no issues taking ownership of the situation, or in this case, the other band members. Those kinds of possesive words have always raised red flags for me. If a bandmate of mine ever introduces me to someone else as “his drummer, ” I become very wary very quickly. Unless I’m collecting a paycheck and said bandmate is “my boss”, I’m not “his drummer.” I make it a point never to call any of my bandmates “my singer,” or ”my guitar player,” etc.

I’m actually not trying to be rude. You asked for opinions and I’m giving you mine. Having played with hyper-ambitious players in the past, and having felt run roughshod by them (and promising myself never to play with one again), I recognized your position pretty quickly. I think it’s entirely possible that, as you wondered, perhaps music is not your calling.

20 years old and you're ok with just being a network administrator? Why did you pick up music in the first place then? Was there nothing in the "growing up" manual that said investing in a musical endeavor would probably be one of the hardest things to do ever?

I'm not making fun or anything, but usually getting people to agree to a marriage of sorts to play music to be successful usually takes money and more time that the people involved don't plan for. If there's something I want to do, I just hire players I know, then everyone knows who the boss is and I have no issues. Way better than the headache you're dealing with. I would think you can be in this situation since you're already making good money at what you do. Hire some good players that you only have to rehearse once (if at all) and experience what it's like to be a real band leader

Frustrating isn't it? Mate, I'd suggest there's more of us here than not, who have been round that block more than once.

At the end of the day, if it was easy then everyone would be doing it. You either push on in spite of adversity, you change tack and come at it from another angle, or you cave. Which one you choose is entirely up to you......and perfectly acceptable providing you're happy with the outcome

Mike, Mike, Mike.... Why would I be chasing money if I have a stable job and everything I need to "live"? My reasons for trying to make it in music is because I LOVE performing. The feeling you get inside when the crowd is screaming and singing along to your songs is just priceless. That's what feeds me. And with that being the case, playing at cafes and local venues for the next 5 years of my life isn't going to cut it. My #1 goal has always been to make good music. I'm not choosing to play mainstream material for riches and glory. Hardcore/Metal happens to be my favorite genre, but alternative rock fits my drumming style and technique. Am I wrong?

Thank you for pointing out my use of possessive words like "I" and "my". Way to troll a post. I do not OWN anyone in the band, hell, I don't OWN the band. I simply took a leadership position to handle our PR and try to give us some sort of path to follow. You act like I am purposefully saying "I" and "my" to show that I am in charge. I often hear some one say at a show "hey, my singer is running late, he will be here in a few". IT'S JUST SPEECH! Give it a break Mike.

Bo Eder said:

20 years old and you're ok with just being a network administrator? Why did you pick up music in the first place then? Was there nothing in the "growing up" manual that said investing in a musical endeavor would probably be one of the hardest things to do ever?

I'm not making fun or anything, but usually getting people to agree to a marriage of sorts to play music to be successful usually takes money and more time that the people involved don't plan for. If there's something I want to do, I just hire players I know, then everyone knows who the boss is and I have no issues. Way better than the headache you're dealing with. I would think you can be in this situation since you're already making good money at what you do. Hire some good players that you only have to rehearse once (if at all) and experience what it's like to be a real band leader

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On your first statement.... I'm 20 years old... I started working as a network admin at 18.... music has been my dream since I was 4 years old bangin' on pots and tubs with broken clothes hangers. I didn't start working and THEN decide to pick it up. It was already there.

I'm a planner, I love to plan things out. I have a car note, rent, bills... the typical responsibilities of an adult. I am WELL AWARE that a career in music in difficult. That's why I work! We hear the sob stories everyday of the people who couldn't make it so they are back from tour, with no band, working at a fast food restaurant. When I feel like the road is clear and I can see where I'm going, my job will receive my 2 weeks notice. After that, it's all or nothing. If the music industry does not see me fit, I can fall back on my technical background, and get a job in Information Technology. Always have a backup plan... that's one of the biggest lessons most musicians ignore.

O, and of course I'm not ok with just being a network administrator. That job is just something to pay the bills. I'm a nerd... computers, networking, databases, and programming come easy to me. Outside of my job, I do nothing but practice music and occasionally play some games with my friends.

Wow, this is an interesting back and forth... All I want to say is

ANVIL

Lol, it's funny that I came on here seeking some insight and trying to see what choices were made by other people who have been in my situation before. Next thing I know, I'm having to defend my standpoint on music and my reasons for wanting to be in the industry. It is in our human nature to WANT. Everyone knows this. I WANT to play larger and larger shows. I want people to support musicians....get out of the house... take your friends to a concert.... stop burning CDs and stealing music....We are supposed to work together and help each other make the right choices. If someone says they love music and that's what they want to do, how dare you tell them they are in it for the wrong reasons (after they have clearly stated they are not lol) and take cheap shots at their character?

I don't want to be the kid who gave it all up for music, but fell short because of undedicated band members or insufficient funds. I almost have enough saved that I would be comfortable quitting my job and hitting the road if I needed to. THE singer in my group is 22yrs old, with no job, and no driver's license. He lives at home with his parents and writes lyrics. He still dreams big of someday singing for thousands and having everyone enjoy his music.

The problem there? It's all he's got. He has become so blinded by the dream that he has ignored reality. That is something I will not do.

At my age, I'd say I'm doing pretty good for myself. I'm able to drive a nice car, live on my own in a nice little house, buy equipment that is needed, etc. If the band I was in was at the point where is was going to require 100% in order to move forward, I would give ALL OF IT up. The money means nothing to me Mike.

I feel like you are using the fact that I have a job against or something lol. Honestly, after these back and forth conversions I have completely lost what your argument is.

Ok, So I'm going to attempt to share some wisdome from the bumpy road.

Having the desire to be the best and to really dedicate yourself to music is great, do you want to be a drummer or do you want to be the band leader?
Secondly, try not to have the mindset that YOU know something, its a huge turnoff for most people... a little humility goes a long way.

By the post I kinda read between the lines and get a feeling that your want to put the Georgia "Rock Scene" on the map, good for you, nothing wrong with big dreams!

You stated:It is SO HARD to find musicians here that are talented and willing to produce quality music that challenges today's current styles. This gives me the vibe that the feeling is you are the only quality musician, so then produce it yourself... all the tools needed are available to the public.

I agree that a lot of music today is crap... but everyone who has changed the game felt that way too... its not the feeling thats wrong but maybe the way you go about it

My short stoy is this, worked for a Major Hotel company as an executive... hired and fired thousands of folk. My job was not only to make the guest happy but to create growth opportunities for my associates so they too could become an executive if they so chose. The reason I left, in short, is due to the fact that I don't chase the dollar anymore... I was not working a job I loved but rather a lifestyle I thought would make me happy. I now play the drums because I love the instrument... my time is limited at my extended age and I want to live my days out feeling satisfied, being in a band and enjoying the creative process is satisfing for ME. It doesnt always go the way I want but thats life.

Don't think make or break... think, How can I find some good people with similar musical goals, regardless of ability, and help them get better? This will be frustrating at first but the long term goal could be what your looking for...

What about moveing... to NYC or anyplace other than L.A. (selfish reasons, we just get way to many transplanst here) but seriously, I would be willing to bet there is someone in their room right now ditching school to play their instrument... Thats who you should try to find. Don't quit music if you love it... just chill out, take a breath and start looking for other players.

Finally, I leave you with the best thing I've heard in awhile, courtesy of Gary Busy.
T.E.A.M
Together Everyone Achieves More

Good luck