How To Handle Learning A Hard Tune?

stellar92010

Senior Member
OK, about all I can do is keep a beat, I don't have a huge amount of technique since I am new to this. How do you learn a really hard song? When I played guitar, I got where I could just hear it, find the chords and fingerings, and nail it down, now on drums, stuff is happening so fast it is hard to even catch all the hits.

For example, I have been diddling with 'Karneval 9' by emerson Lake and Palmer, and Carl Palmer just goes off on those drums for the whole song, he is playing scary stuff the whole tune. I can play through it one time (well, fake through it) and I am sweating trying to keep up.

I just can't hear fast enough to know all the drums to hit....what does it take? Just listening and experience? or is it better at this stage to get sheet music and learn from that? i can read well.

thanks for advice people, I do appreciate it.
 
If you can read, that definitely helps.

But from a non-reader, all I can really offer as far as advice goes is to just listen to it over and over again and imagine it in your head. Visualize what the drummer is doing in the song. That's what always works for me. I know it sounds weird, but I make a movie in my head of what the drummer is doing in a song and I use that as a guide.
 
Many, many threads on this topic, to include:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110594&highlight=memorize
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106670&highlight=memorize
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91771&highlight=memorize
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91388&highlight=learn
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92875&highlight=learn+song

Also, you say "all you can do is keep a beat". Might ELP and specifically that song be a little out of your range at the moment? I didn't start out playing fusion polyrhythms, I built up to it over many years. I spent plenty of time leading up to that learning to keep a steady beat, and learning to play for the song.

You'll get there someday if you stick with it, but today might just not be that day.
 
Well, that's true, I'm jumping into it head first. Some easier songs I've learned that I am pretty close to having down are 'Deacon Blues' (steely dan,) 'Come Dancing' (Jeff Beck,) etc. I've noticed that 99% of the time in 99% of the songs top drummers are just keeping a really tight beat so that has been my first learning goal.

Yea the ELP/King Crimson/John McLaughlin type fusion stuff with the really heavy time changes/polyrhytms etc is tough. But it sure is fun to play and I like to be challenged. I'll probably get a teacher to help me with the hard stuff.

Thanks for the links, I am going to see what they say, I guess the best bet may be to just do my 1 hour a day of fundamentals/rudiments and 2 hours of learning songs, that's what I'm doing now.
 
I just listened to Kam Evil 9 by ELP.

Start out by playing it simple straight through the whole song as if you were the backup rhythm machine or click track for the drummer.

1234 on the base drum and right hand cymbal
2 and 4 on the snare left hand. I know it sounds too simple but you have to do it almost without thinking.

Keep playing the whole song like your the click track until you get real comfortable with that. Let the drummer in the recording do all of the hard stuff. You just keep the rhythm for him.

Then when your comfortable with that you can throw in a few quarter note fills and triplet fills. But come right back to being the click track.

You have to always be able to come back to the basic click track rhythm immediately after the fills. Eventually you will be able to replicate all of the fills that the drummer in the recording is doing.

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Well, that's true, I'm jumping into it head first. Some easier songs I've learned that I am pretty close to having down are 'Deacon Blues' (steely dan,) 'Come Dancing' (Jeff Beck,) etc. I've noticed that 99% of the time in 99% of the songs top drummers are just keeping a really tight beat so that has been my first learning goal.

Yea the ELP/King Crimson/John McLaughlin type fusion stuff with the really heavy time changes/polyrhytms etc is tough. But it sure is fun to play and I like to be challenged. I'll probably get a teacher to help me with the hard stuff.

Thanks for the links, I am going to see what they say, I guess the best bet may be to just do my 1 hour a day of fundamentals/rudiments and 2 hours of learning songs, that's what I'm doing now.

Good way to go....
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Hollywood Jim: I never thought of it that way on drums!! But that is kind of how I do hard guitar songs, just keep a steady up-down rhytm on the guitar for the whole song, then start to learn the fills/nuances as I get the feel. (An acoustic guitar is a very dynamic percussion instrument)

I'm going to try that, it seems like the thing, but well, sometimes it is hard just to find the beat--though Karn Evil 9 isn't too bad. Its a real beast of a drum song though.
 
Stellar:

Believe it or not, after 60 years on the drums, I'm trying to learn guitar. Oh my gosh it's hard !

My fingers don't want to spread out to hold down the strings.
I have a new found respect for guitar players.


" I've got blisters on my fingers ! # !*$*( *?#$_!~#$~&#^!!#! *
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Hollywood Jim: I never thought of it that way on drums!! But that is kind of how I do hard guitar songs, just keep a steady up-down rhytm on the guitar for the whole song, then start to learn the fills/nuances as I get the feel. (An acoustic guitar is a very dynamic percussion instrument)

I'm going to try that, it seems like the thing, but well, sometimes it is hard just to find the beat--though Karn Evil 9 isn't too bad. Its a real beast of a drum song though.

Yeah, if you don't get the rhythm of the song down pat, especially if there are rhythm changes, you can't get the rest of it down.

You might even find that there are not any rhythm changes. The drummer just makes it seem like there are.
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My advice for guitar would be to 1) get a good acoustic 2) learn how to strum straight rhythms with songs.

For example, the song 'Deacon Blues' by steely dan, the acoustic is strumming a very straight beat the is almost exactly a match for the hi-hat/and snare, so as a drummer you should be able to hear that. (the problem is, there is a considerable amount of chord/harmonic knowledge required.

But you can apply that technique to almost any song, your strumming will often be the rhythm of the snare/hi-hat/bass together. And ALWAYS use up down strokes.

I recommend a good acoustic--a good quality/sound strumming guitar is the 000-15 by martin

but i am into drums now, just seems like the thing to do....
 
My advice for guitar would be to 1) get a good acoustic 2) learn how to strum straight rhythms with songs.

For example, the song 'Deacon Blues' by steely dan, the acoustic is strumming a very straight beat the is almost exactly a match for the hi-hat/and snare, so as a drummer you should be able to hear that. (the problem is, there is a considerable amount of chord/harmonic knowledge required.

But you can apply that technique to almost any song, your strumming will often be the rhythm of the snare/hi-hat/bass together. And ALWAYS use up down strokes.

I recommend a good acoustic--a good quality/sound strumming guitar is the 000-15 by martin

but i am into drums now, just seems like the thing to do....

OK thanks for your help.
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