Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I believe it was a mistake for Ludwig (I assume its Ludwig) to be advertising these as an "entry level" kit.

There are pro features on this kit. Atlas hardware, American maple. These are not beginners features in my eyes, and I believe by marketing it with the "entry level" sticker you put a stigma on them that they do not deserve.
 
I have looked at many websites, Ludwig, Music 123, Musiciansfriend, etc. and I don't see entry level anywhere. I see the "up and coming" lable and "early player" but not entry level. I think the "up and coming" has more to do with the cost than it does skill level. But I will keep looking.
 
I believe it was a mistake for Ludwig (I assume its Ludwig) to be advertising these as an "entry level" kit.

I know Ludwig doesn't intend for these to be considered entry-level drums, and as it happens, the price is higher than most - including Ludwig's - entry-level kits.

My impression when I first was aware of them was that they're a pro-level American kit at a very attractive price... if you don't mind assembling them one time. the concept of entry-level never came up either in my mind, or in how I watched Ludwig present them at NAMM.

Bermuda
 
.........I believe by marketing it with the "entry level" sticker you put a stigma on them that they do not deserve.


You mean the price tag?

Seems the BD spurs could be considered entry level, maybe the plastic on the lugs, these not considered 'Pro level' and could stigmatize the offering as cheap(er).

Those are more like features you'd find on a beginners kit, but 'it is' those features that keep the price down.
 
You mean the price tag?

Seems the BD spurs could be considered entry level, maybe the plastic on the lugs, these not considered 'Pro level' and could stigmatize the offering as cheap(er).

Those are more like features you'd find on a beginners kit, but 'it is' those features that keep the price down.

Didn't the Sonor S Classix have a plastic part on their lug at one point in time. Also I would say that these bass drum spurs are super sturdy. Sturdier than alot of others I have tried and also much better than the gull wings that some companies like to put on their top of the line kits.

Obviously this kit is not a flagship model but you are honestly just looking for things to complain about., and you don't even have this kit. why not go put one together and play it for a while before you start picking it apart.
 
Obviously this kit is not a flagship model but you are honestly just looking for things to complain about., and you don't even have this kit. why not go put one together and play it for a while before you start picking it apart.

Exactly. It's one thing to form an opinion about something without actually using or even seeing it in person. It's another to hold onto that opinion even after all aspects have been credibly explained by those of us who own and use the drums.

As I've already said, if anyone has a genuine objection to the drums based on their perception, even after their objections and concerns have been answered repeatedly, then the Signets are not for them.

You and I and other open-minded members will continue to know things about the Signets that "Les" does not. Not a problem for me, he's not required to buy them. My Signets are sounding great and heading to 2 gigs this weekend and then the studio with Al.

Bermuda
 
You mean the price tag?

Seems the BD spurs could be considered entry level, maybe the plastic on the lugs, these not considered 'Pro level' and could stigmatize the offering as cheap(er).

Those are more like features you'd find on a beginners kit, but 'it is' those features that keep the price down.

Have you ever pulled a lug off of a 4,000 dollar DW Collectors kit? I have and guess what, there is a plastic sleeve that holds the barrel nut in place. If you loose that sleeve you are SOL.
There is nothing on this new signet lug that states cheap entry level item. It's actually nicely finished. Much nicer than some of the hardware that came on a Yamaha kit I had that cost over 2 grand.

I'm not crazy about the none adjustable spur, only because the kick drum sits about a inch higher than what I prefer. Does this state " low quality"? Not at all! It's nicely machined and looks very elogant It also is very sturdy. I really doubt that it will ever fail.

Who knows, just maybe the engineers that designed this spur and drum shell found that the extra clearance between the shell and floor or stage surface allowed the shell to perform better.
 
Last edited:
I'm not crazy about the none adjustable spur, only because the kick drum sits about a inch higher than what I prefer. Does this state " low quality"?

So yeah, it seems the BD spurs could be considered an entry level design, even tho every entry level set I've encountered did have adjustable spurs.




Obviously this kit is not a flagship model but you are honestly just looking for things to complain about., and you don't even have this kit. why not go put one together and play it for a while before you start picking it apart.

Please, Im not 'complaining' about anything and I feel the rational approach is to "pick it apart" as you say b/f you drop the $1000.00 makes more sense than buying the kit, then finding out you're not happy with the non adjustable BD spurs as an example. Thank god forums exist for that opportunity.




Have you ever pulled a lug off of a 4,000 dollar DW Collectors kit? I have and guess what, there is a plastic sleeve that holds the barrel nut in place.

Standard, accepted practice to put a nylon retainer 'inside' a metal drum lug, its protected. Plastic on the outside of a drum lug? Up until now its been considered 'entry level'.

Will non adjustable BD spurs and plastic on the outside of the lugs 'stigmatize' SIG105? Possibly down the road, we shall see how the plastic takes the effects of scratching and fading. Might be OK, might not. Until then- only perceptually stigmatized (Stigmata1☺5).

I've seen more than one kit with plastic lugs that had been rashed out, wasn't pretty, the set looked devalued.




It's one thing to form an opinion about something without actually using or even seeing it in person

And its another thing to form an opinion about someone else's opinion about why/how a drum set is marketed. No ones required to be open mined about these opinions, and right, no ones required to buy SIGNET105's
 
This was my thoughts on page 1 of this thread and it hasn't changed. And if you don't like the concept, or the plastic or the non adjustable spurs, or any other nit picking thing for Gods sake stay away from them.

Post #31
I would assume that Ludwig has done enough testing that they didn't blindly pack these up and move them to the NAMM show where the pickiest crowd in the world would be looking at them with a fine toothed comb. And based on the idea what a great concept for all companies to now offer the DIY kit option for all kits. One box shipping with all of the drums in one box, a box sitting in the middle of the shells with all of the hardware, and maybe a 200.00 price reduction so that you could put them together. One box would cut their shipping costs in half or more, less cause for damage with no lugs bouncing around and hitting another drum packed in the same box. We have all seen that. I would wait and see if this truly is more of a convenience and money saver for the customer, or just a money saver for Ludwig and their crew. I tought about holes expanding etc, but if the drum is tuned and has any tension on the heads at all the lugs are not moving. 60 years old drums don't have widening holes so I would not fear these. Right on Ludwig.
 
First its the good reviews on the supralite and I went and got one & yes it's a great snare, now the good reviews on the signet kits is making me want to trade in my Ludwig "Epic's"...lol....damn you Drummerworld....lmao

congrats on your signet's.

Bonzolead
 
And its another thing to form an opinion about someone else's opinion about why/how a drum set is marketed.

Don't take it from me simply because my relationship with Ludwig goes beyond what a typical artist would have, and that I knew about the Signets long before any here had even heard of them. Don't believe what I say about Ludwig's intentions after observing and participating and speaking to dealers about the Signets (and more) during the majority of the NAMM show. And most importantly, because I own and use the Signets, you can be assured that I know nothing about them.

But do believe this: I know things that you will never know, because I keep my eyes and ears open.

And, please accept my apology for my repeated attempts to educate you, that was completely my fault and must have been very frustrating for you.

Bermuda
 
I have looked at many websites, Ludwig, Music 123, Musiciansfriend, etc. and I don't see entry level anywhere. I see the "up and coming" lable and "early player" but not entry level. I think the "up and coming" has more to do with the cost than it does skill level. But I will keep looking.


http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/drums/namm-2014-ludwig-stand-in-pictures-592964

From Link:

"NAMM 2014: Ludwig had a new range and plenty of awesome finishes to show at this year's NAMM.

Most eye-catching was the new Signet 105 range. An entry-level kit aiming to deliver plenty of higher end features. The name refers to Ludwig's 105 years of American drum crafting."


Music Radar review... thats where I saw it. I know it shouldnt matter... but it turned me off a little bit to see it listed there and I believed it to be an unfair label. I think you are right I dont think anyone else has called it that or advertised it that way... but it stuck in my mind.

Myself, the only reason I dont own a set of these is because I picked up two kits in the past 6 months. But its still a struggle not to walk out of the store with them.
 
I stand corrected. But I will say if that is the case then this is one entry level kit that I would buy.

p.s. I emailed the magazine or web site to see where they picked up the term entry level.
 
Bermuda and others with experience on this kit:

Would you consider this an upgrade from Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (circa 2011)? All opinions are welcomed. I'm really thinking of pulling the trigger and selling SC's. I played this kit (with the 20" BD) and it blew my mind! Sonic powerhouse IMO. I would go with the 22 and get the natural finish though.
 
I stand corrected. But I will say if that is the case then this is one entry level kit that I would buy.

p.s. I emailed the magazine or web site to see where they picked up the term entry level.



Yeah, who knows where the term came from. There is nothing listed on Ludwig's site making this claim.

Another note I just found and this may explain why the 20" kick drum sits higher is because the same stiletto spur is used on the 22" kick drum too. I guess they did not plan on having to design two separate lengths for the spur.
 
Bermuda and others with experience on this kit:

Would you consider this an upgrade from Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (circa 2011)? All opinions are welcomed. I'm really thinking of pulling the trigger and selling SC's. I played this kit (with the 20" BD) and it blew my mind! Sonic powerhouse IMO. I would go with the 22 and get the natural finish though.


I personally like the signets better than the stage custom but it really depends on what you are looking for. If you want a maple sound then these will be better but if you like the birch sound then the Stage custom is better.

But I will tell you it is not a downgrade to go from the stage customs to a signet. Go check some out and decide for yourself.
 
I personally like the signets better than the stage custom but it really depends on what you are looking for. If you want a maple sound then these will be better but if you like the birch sound then the Stage custom is better.

But I will tell you it is not a downgrade to go from the stage customs to a signet. Go check some out and decide for yourself.

Thanks man, that's what I thought, and I did play the 4pc signet at a local GC and I was floored - the attack of birch and the body of maple. I have a maple gretsch renown which is a reference point for me, and after playing that often, and a dw kit at my rehearsals, I'm starting to lose interest in birch. The SC's are good, to make mine better I upgraded the hoops, but there are things I noticed that still makes the SC's cheap:

1) 6 lugs on 14" floor tom
2) Cheap lugs on the whole kit
3) 8 lugs on the BD.
4) Mysterious birch - although crafted well, still questionable

So I agree, a Signet is a step up.
 
Yamaha refers to the Stage Customs as entry level.
There is one kit, one step down - Gigmaker, but there are several things on the Stage Customs that do kind of say 'entry level'.
That said, I'm satisfied with them.

There are a couple things I'm not too excited about with the Signets also. But I think that from this quote:


....I'm really thinking of pulling the trigger and selling SC's. I played this kit (with the 20" BD) and it blew my mind! Sonic powerhouse IMO....

it seems like it would be a good move for you.
 
http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/drums/namm-2014-ludwig-stand-in-pictures-592964

From Link:

"NAMM 2014: Ludwig had a new range and plenty of awesome finishes to show at this year's NAMM.

Most eye-catching was the new Signet 105 range. An entry-level kit aiming to deliver plenty of higher end features. The name refers to Ludwig's 105 years of American drum crafting."


Music Radar review... thats where I saw it. I know it shouldnt matter... but it turned me off a little bit to see it listed there and I believed it to be an unfair label.




Seems fair, MR probably looking at the price first (like everyone else) 500-$1000 can easily be considered entry level. The drumming community has to date been conditioned to view hybrid composite lugs as an entry level thing. Less obvious entry level feature would be non adjustable BD spurs, altho pretty sure the next gen SIG105 will have adjustable spurs, every other $1000 kit has em.





"...please accept my apology for my repeated attempts to educate you, that was completely my fault and must have been very frustrating for you."

Bermuda


No need to apologize, we can all comfortably assume everyone reading this forum is thankful for your knowledge and willingness to educate.
 
Back
Top