No Talent Hack, But Loving It....

Beefsock

Junior Member
So,,,, I am an old guy (45) and I have been playing drums for 5 months now.

I have no natural talent for drumming or music, but I do love to drum.

My skills have improved 1000%, but honestly, I am still pretty terrible.

Is there a chance that a no talent guy will ever be good at drums?

Of course, I do love playing my Roland drums and won't give it up, I'm just looking at my expectations of what I will be able to do in the future.
 
Recommendation: practice with actual music and actual music you like. CDs or some other media and a headset.

I recommend playing with a LOT of blues. Basic 4 on floor and triplet shuffles. Go to ride on guitar/harp/other instrument solos, and learn to do fills as they go to solos. Then a fill and back to hats when singer comes back in. Some of it may swing a bit, which is a different pattern. Some may use second line/Bo Diddley beat, too. Most of it will be 4 on floor blues shuffles, though. Learn to nail the snare on he 2 and 4. Play with the music. I think a lot of people make mistake of playing in isolation, or get too worked up about proper technique. The old blues cats just picked up sticks and played, and learned to play with other musicians. Kinda organic. Do that for a month and you'll have a lotta fun and be a lot better player. This is probably the easiest path to enhancing your playing, plus it's fun!

So,,,, I am an old guy (45) and I have been playing drums for 5 months now.

I have no natural talent for drumming or music, but I do love to drum.

My skills have improved 1000%, but honestly, I am still pretty terrible.

Is there a chance that a no talent guy will ever be good at drums?

Of course, I do love playing my Roland drums and won't give it up, I'm just looking at my expectations of what I will be able to do in the future.
 
..I have no natural talent for drumming or music, but I do love to drum.

My skills have improved 1000%, but honestly, I am still pretty terrible..


If you skills have improved that much, then why would you say that you have no talent..?

Plus you should always be aware of with who you are comparing yourself when saying that you play bad, since not many people will sound completely awesome after only 5 months and there are people who allready play 40 years and still sound awfull..

Like Rattlin' Bones said, just keep practicing, maybe get a teacher if thats possible and just give yourself a few years..And then who knows..
 
Recommendation: practice with actual music and actual music you like. CDs or some other media and a headset.
This for development.

Once you feel up to it, try and play with people as much as you can. Playing to CD's and whatnot are fine, but nothing beats interacting with others & bouncing musical ideas off each other.

Like Bones mentioned, blues (and country) will help with the basics. You'll see that translate to real playing with people more often than not.

Good luck brother!
 
Play with people sooner rather than later. It's the most fun you can have with your pants on.

Playing music requires a mix of talent and work. Anybody can play music, but the amount of work needed to reach any given level differs from person to person. And it may be that raw talent is only relevant for rank beginners (making picking up an instrument easy) and virtuosi (enabling them to reach lofty heights).

For most of us, attitude determines altitude.
 
Play with people sooner rather than later. It's the most fun you can have with your pants on.
If you've got some scissors and are willing to cut the pants up this statement can be fully disregarded.
 
If you've got some scissors and are willing to cut the pants up this statement can be fully disregarded.

...and it's even more exciting if you are wearing the pants at the time.


And now, back to our scheduled programming...
 
5 months really isn't much time. I think it takes 2 years to sound OK on drums.
 
5 months really isn't much time. I think it takes 2 years to sound OK on drums.

Met a guy at an open jam last week who was really good, had fantastic taste and kept great time, I was impressed, and I'm usually not by new guys at a jam who tend to pull all their tricks out to show off.

Talked to him the next time he showed up and learned he hadn't even been playing for 3 years yet.

Moral of the story? Get a teacher. You'll go so, so much faster when you start out with good habits and guidance. Once you get things down to a basic level, technique really isn't as important as musicianship, but if you start out with good technique, you can focus on the stuff that really makes you a good drummer sooner.
 
Yeah. 5 months isn't much time to get comfortable behind a kit.

You probably have 100x the patience of most kids, so with some propper guidance and dedication the world is your oyster.

Whatever general knowledge you already have in music is relevant, though. That's a big deal, so don't skimp on that if you want to get serious.
 
If you have natural talent, I think a few years could get you somewhere.

I started playing drums at 12, and was playing gigs at 14. I did have some lessons, and I did get a lot of practice in my dad's band, at the time.
 
Its never to late to be a satisfied and accomplished drummer.(within reason..e.g. death bed is a bit late : )
 
I've been doing a lot of reading lately on the topic, and there's been a lot of research indicating that "natural talent" is simply not a thing. Some people may take to things a bit quicker in the early days, but in the long run it boils down to who put in the practice time.

My point is: just keep going. You have as much opportunity to be good (per hour of practice) as anyone. I'm about your age and the only obstacle I see is not having enough time left (period) to get where I want to be. Nothing other than that.

What we have in our favor is increased attention span. My son can't practice anything more than 20 minutes before he's back on some screen or something. I have a plan and drill down on my weak spots relentlessly. I have faith it will pay off.
 
I've been doing a lot of reading lately on the topic, and there's been a lot of research indicating that "natural talent" is simply not a thing. Some people may take to things a bit quicker in the early days, but in the long run it boils down to who put in the practice time.

Total nonsense. Some people are just pre-disposed to being better at certain things. It can be how your body or mind are made up or work, or it can be genetic in some cases.

Maybe we're just confusing terms, because I do believe that natural talent only goes so far and just gives you a bit of an edge... You still have to work at things to be really great, but basically, you have a higher ceiling and well as learning quick generally on the topic.

Music is in fact one of those areas... Some people are just good at it from the start... The way their brain processes and digests the musical information is just superior. In the most extreme cases we call them savants. It's not much different from the kids who can absorb and utilize mathematical complexities easier. Went to grade school with a kid like that. At the age of a third grader he could do math in his head while we checked on a calculator.
 
I'm not sure what I could say to convince you besides pointing you to 3-4 books on the subject. They've spent a lot of time researching top performers in music, athletics and chess, among other things. They have not ever identified anything genetic (outside of having to be tall for basketball, or whatever) to separate these people, and more importantly, they have never found anyone who got out of putting in many thousands of hours of practice.

Total nonsense. Some people are just pre-disposed to being better at certain things. It can be how your body or mind are made up or work, or it can be genetic in some cases.

Maybe we're just confusing terms, because I do believe that natural talent only goes so far and just gives you a bit of an edge... You still have to work at things to be really great, but basically, you have a higher ceiling and well as learning quick generally on the topic.

Music is in fact one of those areas... Some people are just good at it from the start... The way their brain processes and digests the musical information is just superior. In the most extreme cases we call them savants. It's not much different from the kids who can absorb and utilize mathematical complexities easier. Went to grade school with a kid like that. At the age of a third grader he could do math in his head while we checked on a calculator.
 
I'm not sure what I could say to convince you besides pointing you to 3-4 books on the subject. They've spent a lot of time researching top performers in music, athletics and chess, among other things. They have not ever identified anything genetic (outside of having to be tall for basketball, or whatever) to separate these people, and more importantly, they have never found anyone who got out of putting in many thousands of hours of practice.

Like I said, to me "natural talent" doesn't mean you don't have to practice doing things... It just means by default you're better at it than someone else you're compared to.

You can't tell me if we line up 10 people and all have them do the same (new) things, that they would all end up doing them at the same efficiency/level right away... Some people are just better at certain things. Sometimes it's physical, like being better at a sport because of how your body is built, sometimes it's mental, like having a brain structure and makeup that allows you to have an easier time processing math as in my last example.

In both cases, there would still be immense benefit to practicing those skills, and in fact, those with more inherent talent will most likely benefit even more from that practice. Talent and automatic mastery are just not the same thing.
 
Well, not only have they not found anyone who "got out of" putting in lots of practice, the correlations with practice are huge. I think I put this in another post, but one of the original studies along these lines was of world class violin players at a Berlin conservatory. With the help of the instructors, they ranked all the solo performance players and put them into two categories, then added a third category for people in the teaching program. IIRC, there was about 2000 hours difference in total practice between each of the groups (something like 3000, 5000, and 7000 hours). Importantly though, there were none in the top group who got by with 5000 and nobody in the mid group that got by with 3000. I'm getting these numbers from memory, but you get the point. Nobody required half the practice to get to the same place or something like that.

Sorry, long winded. To your point, people with high IQ or other innate things can pick up things faster, but the advantage quickly dissipates as everyone moves out of the novice category. For example, they studied chess players and found that high IQ people were superior when they were kids and recently learned the game. As they all advanced, the difference diminished and even reversed (speculation being that lower IQ people developed practice habits early on and continued to benefit from them). Grand masters in chess do not, on average, have remarkable IQs.

So yes, I'd agree that some people will "take" to drums quicker than others, but by the time any of them are actually good, let alone great, that will become irrelevant. The one caveat I'd add is that people who have a harder time early on may get discouraged, or receive less external encouragement from others, and so practice less or quit.

Like I said, to me "natural talent" doesn't mean you don't have to practice doing things... It just means by default you're better at it than someone else you're compared to.

You can't tell me if we line up 10 people and all have them do the same (new) things, that they would all end up doing them at the same efficiency/level right away... Some people are just better at certain things. Sometimes it's physical, like being better at a sport because of how your body is built, sometimes it's mental, like having a brain structure and makeup that allows you to have an easier time processing math as in my last example.

In both cases, there would still be immense benefit to practicing those skills, and in fact, those with more inherent talent will most likely benefit even more from that practice. Talent and automatic mastery are just not the same thing.
 
So yes, I'd agree that some people will "take" to drums quicker than others, but by the time any of them are actually good, let alone great, that will become irrelevant. The one caveat I'd add is that people who have a harder time early on may get discouraged, or receive less external encouragement from others, and so practice less or quit.

Right, so this is just a disagreement about what talent means as a word. I'll just leave this to say that even after 20 years of all different types of drumset study, and even teaching some folks myself, I see lots of differences in how quickly even advanced students pick up and apply concepts and techniques. Some people just have a brain that makes certain things easier for them to do than someone with a different brain make-up.

With hard work, almost anyone can be a master at something they want to attack, but I just know for fact that some people have to work less hard to get to the same places. It's part of what makes us individuals. We are not all the same, and everyone has their own set of both talents and things they aren't inherently good for/at. Some people for example are just natural sales people... They come into a sales force and outsell people who work 10 times harder because they simply have an innate talent for that set of skills matched with a charisma they've had since childhood. On the flip side, there's people like me who have an extremely hard time with that type of thing, and while they might eventually learn the same skills and practice/work to the point I outsold that hot-shot, I would know how difficult that was for me.

It would be a very boring world if we were all so similar that talent wasn't a real thing. Again, I think we're just defining the word differently.

I also think there might be some authors who are very butt-hurt they don't have many interesting talents.
 
I also think there might be some authors who are very butt-hurt they don't have many interesting talents.

I was discussing this at lunch today and someone said basically the same thing. I don't see it that way at all. I see these studies more along the lines of "quit your bitchin' and get to work". To me, they say that you have no real compelling excuse for not being good, and if someone is better than you, they wanted it more and tried harder. If you can chalk it all up to genetics, that gives you the excuse you need to give up and fail.
 
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