Girl drummers

But what about girl cyborg drummers!
 

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I'm thinking there are fewer women playing all instruments than men. Not just drums. And I mean combined. I realize there are probably more string players that are women than men.
 
Like I said - the post I responded to was deleted. So you missed it.

I can't help if you didn't understand that.

I, in no way, ever said that female drummers suck.

Two things I believe you will be unable to do:
#1 Quote me in saying that female drummers suck.
#2 Find the post in which I replied to, that you quoted out of context, because the post was deleted. I cannot help that you missed it.

If you can do either of those, I'd love to entertain this misleading path you seem to be on, or the relevance to the topic.

*edit: I'm not sure how you assumed that I was mediocre or amateur either. I simply stated I was nothing special, and I never hinted at my professional status. BUT - neither one of those qualifications exclude me from being able to discern a good musician from others. Some of the best ears in music can't play to save their lives.

**edit: Isn't the sexism you mentioned directly related to the first post of this thread? Looks like you and the OP are in line. Females announcing 'girl drummer', garnering more hits than male drummers, would fall in to that category, no?

I'll take your retreat into quibbling over “context”, and legalistic gibberish as an admission that you have no rational defense for your sexist garbage. Your meaning throughout this thread has been plain, with lines like this:

I have no doubt of the possibility of a good girl drummer, I just haven't seen one that met my personal expectations.

And there's nothing stopping you from reposting that exonerating context, chief. Bring it, or shut up about it.
 
I'll take your retreat into quibbling over “context”, and legalistic gibberish as an admission that you have no rational defense for your sexist garbage. Your meaning throughout this thread has been plain, with lines like this:



And there's nothing stopping you from reposting that exonerating context, chief. Bring it, or shut up about it.

Yes there is. I didn't post it. Please read my posts before making assumptions.

I've already stated that I haven't met a female drummer that is on par with other male counterparts. Why must I repeat it for your benefit? I think I was clear the first time.

Again, I ask - is anything I've stated about that inaccurate?

How are my observations, and my interpretation of them - sexist garbage? Simply because you think they are? Your opinion. Does not add thousands of female drummers, or improve the ability of the ones that I've performed with, or watched perform. It just makes you feel better that you live in a perfect world where there just as many female drummers as male drummers.

We don't have to look further than this to explain my point:
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummerchoice.html
 
Yes there is. I didn't post it. Please read my posts before making assumptions.

Well, I know you didn't break your typing finger.

I've already stated that I haven't met a female drummer that is on par with other male counterparts. Why must I repeat it for your benefit? I think I was clear the first time.

Again, I ask - is anything I've stated about that inaccurate?

How are my observations, and my interpretation of them - sexist garbage? Simply because you think they are? Your opinion. Does not add thousands of female drummers, or improve the ability of the ones that I've performed with, or watched perform. It just makes you feel better that you live in a perfect world where there just as many female drummers as male drummers.

We don't have to look further than this to explain my point:
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummerchoice.html

Schmuck, you described your own views as sexist more than once. Sexism = garbage, so QED, mf. Further, when you are presented with multiple examples of accomplished female drummers, yet you persist in prattling on about never encountering any that live up to your high standards (which, curiously, you do not apply to your own musicianship), it looks to anyone with eyes attached to a functioning brain rather like you have a sexist axe to grind.
 
Well, I know you didn't break your typing finger.



Schmuck, you described your own views as sexist more than once. Sexism = garbage, so QED, mf. Further, when you are presented with multiple examples of accomplished female drummers, yet you persist in prattling on about never encountering any that live up to your high standards (which, curiously, you do not apply to your own musicianship), it looks to anyone with eyes attached to a functioning brain rather like you have a sexist axe to grind.

I don't know how my typing has something to do with someone else making a post and having it removed. Please explain. Maybe my brain isn't functioning.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND - SOMEONE MADE A LENGTHY POST REGARDING AN INSTANCE ABOUT A FEMALE BEING JUDGED IN A COMPETITION, AND WAS CLEARLY SUBSTANDARD, ACCORDING TO THE POSTER AND OTHER COMPETITORS WHO WITHDREW AFTER VIEWING THE SEEMINGLY SKEWED RESULTS. IT WAS REMOVED WHILE I WAS TYPING A REPLY TO IT, WHICH YOU READ, AND APPEARED TO TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT. I MADE NO SUCH RETREAT OF ANY KIND. I DID NOT REMOVE THE POST, NOR DID I POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. What did you NOT get?

If you expect me to type someone's 50 paragraph essay about a specific event, you'll be waiting a while.

I've already conceded that perhaps my expectations are too high. What else do you need to hear?

The only sexist axe I have to grind are women who want notoriety for their ability, and when nobody watches, they say,"But I'm a girl!" And then attempt to get viewed through a different scope. That is sexism at its worst. I will not apologize for recognizing it.

Please do not misinterpret that somehow I've suggested that EVERY female drummer does this, as this would be grossly off point.

Maybe you could ask why DRUMMER WORLD backs up my observations. My guess is you won't, because you are not interested in the way life works.

And I have no idea why you think I don't apply my standards to my own musicianship. Perhaps yet ANOTHER assumption? Keep going. I'll tally the false assumptions later (that are all irrelevant).
 
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I don't know how my typing has something to do with someone else making a post and having it removed. Please explain. Maybe my brain isn't functioning.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND - SOMEONE MADE A LENGTHY POST REGARDING AN INSTANCE ABOUT A FEMALE BEING JUDGED IN A COMPETITION, AND WAS CLEARLY SUBSTANDARD, ACCORDING TO THE POSTER AND OTHER COMPETITORS WHO WITHDREW AFTER VIEWING THE SEEMINGLY SKEWED RESULTS. IT WAS REMOVED WHILE I WAS TYPING A REPLY TO IT, WHICH YOU READ, AND APPEARED TO TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT. I MADE NO SUCH RETREAT OF ANY KIND. I DID NOT REMOVE THE POST, NOR DID I POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. What did you NOT get?

I've already conceded that perhaps my expectations are too high. What else do you need to hear?

The only sexist axe I have to grind are women who want notoriety for their ability, and when nobody watches, they say,"But I'm a girl!" And then attempt to get viewed through a different scope. That is sexism at its worst. I will not apologize for recognizing it.

Um, no, Jas, that is not “sexism at it's worst” in any sense of the meaning of either word. That is actually nothing. The fact that you are so outraged over nothing simply because this gender element has it's hooks in you is telling.

You're going to have to excuse me now, because I have to go teach music to a couple of young women. You need to grow up, man up, and learn a little something about sexism, and why it's bad.
 
Um, no, Jas, that is not “sexism at it's worst” in any sense of the meaning of either word. That is actually nothing. The fact that you are so outraged over nothing simply because this gender element has it's hooks in you is telling.

You're going to have to excuse me now, because I have to go teach music to a couple of young women. You need to grow up, man up, and learn a little something about sexism, and why it's bad.

It is bad when people defend its use.

I dislike sexism in the military.

I dislike sexism in sports.

I dislike sexism in just about anything. But that doesn't change its presence. I have taken my stand against sexism (in more important arenas than music). Have you? You should not make false assumptions.

I believe in striving for equality.

I have learned something, since this discussion began - I've learned my belief that there are most likely more promoters attempting to gain from marketing a female drummer, than females who want to be recognized on their own ability (let's say for each female drummer, there are two or more people who want her to be seen being successful).

To clarify - Let's take a woman drummer, content with her abilities, wants to be seen as a peer among the crowd, but is marketed as 'best girl drummer'. The bar is lowered. Why? Because the promoter added the qualifier. Why not just say - "best drummer"?

I'm actually outraged that some try to dismiss my observations as false, or wrong. I'm not outraged at all about women who promote their sexuality to gain an advantage. That is called life. I'm outraged by the many that are either blind to it, or part of it.

If you think I'm outraged by a girl titling her own youtube video, you are sadly mistaken (yet, another false assumption).

And if I mentally lowered the standard, wouldn't that mean I'm giving more chances to succeed? What you are suggesting is very backwards from my position, and you are appearing quite hypocritical (calling me patronizing, then speaking condescendingly to me).

I see you side stepped all of my points. I hope you're not afraid to address them.

For reference: See Danica Patrick vs Ryan Newman, regarding sponsorship. (I do expect most here to dismiss the NASCAR reference, even though most know who she is, and why I'm referencing this). I'm almost positive Danica does NOT want to be recognized as the best female driver in motorsports, but rather a good driver among peers (and maybe perhaps a Champion). Does Godaddy believe the same? I don't think so. They want to cash in on her TV time. Is the bar lower for her? The way they talk about her coming in 20th as a success, there may be a correlation. Motorsports is predominantly male. Drumming is predominantly male.

I believe you could tell me that what I've seen is not the norm, or perhaps further clarification is requested (to prevent MANY false assumptions). But to tell me that I'm wrong about things that have happened to others (not just me) is garbage is an ignorant approach (because denying the actions doesn't solve anything).

What is interesting is - I also teach young men and women about music. I would like if my students were recognized because of their ability and talents as a musician, not their gender. Perhaps you're assuming waaaayyyy too much. I believe so.
 
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I find it interesting that the ones getting most heated over this discussion are males.
 
Jasp, I'll agree with you on this - I think it's goofy when a YT vid is posted "girl drummer" too. Still, as they say, sex sells ... and that's not the fault of women!

I've satirised the FEMALE DRUMMER game a couple of times - I got called on it the second time when the satire was less obvious :)

Fetchingly aged FEMALE DRUMMER!!! - Soundscape

FEMALE drummer!! A Mosquito at Night
Haha!! Always and forever, as long as men have money...

... reading links...

*edit: That second thread is too funny. It summed everything up right there.

By the way - very relaxing music. Well done.
 
I find it interesting that the ones getting most heated over this discussion are males.

Sure. I don't actually care if some women are OK with the things he's said here. It's not OK with me.

Gentlemen keep on topic and leave the personal attacks outside.

No personal attacks here. He thought he could have a conversation about other people's shortcomings while being immune from any scrutiny himself, and he was wrong.

It is bad when people defend its use.

I dislike sexism in the military.

I dislike sexism in sports.

I dislike sexism in just about anything. But that doesn't change its presence. I have taken my stand against sexism (in more important arenas than music). Have you? You should not make false assumptions.

I believe in striving for equality.

I have learned something, since this discussion began - I've learned my belief that there are most likely more promoters attempting to gain from marketing a female drummer, than females who want to be recognized on their own ability (let's say for each female drummer, there are two or more people who want her to be seen being successful).

To clarify - Let's take a woman drummer, content with her abilities, wants to be seen as a peer among the crowd, but is marketed as 'best girl drummer'. The bar is lowered. Why? Because the promoter added the qualifier. Why not just say - "best drummer"?

I'm actually outraged that some try to dismiss my observations as false, or wrong. I'm not outraged at all about women who promote their sexuality to gain an advantage. That is called life. I'm outraged by the many that are either blind to it, or part of it.

If you think I'm outraged by a girl titling her own youtube video, you are sadly mistaken (yet, another false assumption).

And if I mentally lowered the standard, wouldn't that mean I'm giving more chances to succeed? What you are suggesting is very backwards from my position, and you are appearing quite hypocritical (calling me patronizing, then speaking condescendingly to me).

I see you side stepped all of my points. I hope you're not afraid to address them.

For reference: See Danica Patrick vs Ryan Newman, regarding sponsorship. (I do expect most here to dismiss the NASCAR reference, even though most know who she is, and why I'm referencing this). I'm almost positive Danica does NOT want to be recognized as the best female driver in motorsports, but rather a good driver among peers (and maybe perhaps a Champion). Does Godaddy believe the same? I don't think so. They want to cash in on her TV time. Is the bar lower for her? The way they talk about her coming in 20th as a success, there may be a correlation. Motorsports is predominantly male. Drumming is predominantly male.

I believe you could tell me that what I've seen is not the norm, or perhaps further clarification is requested (to prevent MANY false assumptions). But to tell me that I'm wrong about things that have happened to others (not just me) is garbage is an ignorant approach (because denying the actions doesn't solve anything).

What is interesting is - I also teach young men and women about music. Perhaps you're assuming waaaayyyy too much. I believe so.

I guess I have to take you at your word on that. And I can see this is more attention than you've had in years from either sex, and you will eagerly keep up this tap dancing all night, so I'm out of here. Good luck with your life.
 
...

No personal attacks here...

...And I can see this is more attention than you've had in years from either sex...
I think this about sums it up.

Same post. I can't define irony any better.

Todd, now that you're done - I counted 5 false assumptions. Good luck to you as well.
 
Arguments aside, Jasp I take it you would agree that players like Terri-Lynne Carrington, Hilary Jones and Cindy Blackman - while not being Vinnie or Steve Gadd - are more skilled than the vast majority of male drummers. As I said before, there's much more difference in standard within the genders than between them.

Glad you enjoyed some of my kooky music :)
 
Arguments aside, Jasp I take it you would agree that players like Terri-Lynne Carrington, Hilary Jones and Cindy Blackman - while not being Vinnie or Steve Gadd - are more skilled than the vast majority of male drummers. As I said before, there's much more difference in standard within the genders than between them.

Glad you enjoyed some of my kooky music :)

I agree with you, 100%.
 
Personally I doubt a woman would be excluded from a job in the music industry If she were a good enough musician. Please tell me I am not wrong.

Sadly, there’s pretty solid evidence that women are (were?) often excluded from orchestras based on their, er, womanliness.

Turns out that in so-called blind auditions (where the person auditioning is hidden behind a curtain), women get the gig significantly more often than in non-blind auditions. Meaning that when the people judging the audition can see the performer, men get better grades simply because they are male (or women get worse marks because they’re female).
 
Sadly, there’s pretty solid evidence that women are (were?) often excluded from orchestras based on their, er, womanliness.

Turns out that in so-called blind auditions (where the person auditioning is hidden behind a curtain), women get the gig significantly more often than in non-blind auditions. Meaning that when the people judging the audition can see the performer, men get better grades simply because they are male (or women get worse marks because they’re female).

Not surprised at all. There's also evidence in showing employment preferences for tall men over short men (no Bo, not in Disney) and good looking people over uglies.
 
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