Changing snare tuning for different songs.

Andy

Andy

Honorary Member
Bo has been bugging me relentlessly about using different snare tunings live. TBH, he has a point. It's what we all typically do when tracking multiple songs in the studio, so why not live?

So, I tried it out at last night's practice to see wether the hassle was worth it. I've put this video together so you can see what I did. Now, the practice room is very small & ultra dead, so not entirely representative as everything sounds "boxy". All players are on stripped out gear with a shitty practice PA. Recorded on a Zoom very close to the kit, so please take into account that the drums are too high in the mix. Oh, & I've got a piece of folded paper on the batter head.

The intention is to use two snares on a gig. Video starts with an example of the tuning I tend to use for the whole gig. Note band comment at the end of the video ;) So, what do you think - worth it or not? Is this something you do?

Warning, un-nesessary expletives used :( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MK5knAlqD4&feature=youtu.be
 
I think, for me, it's not something I've felt a need for in the past 40 years of drumming. Likewise, I've known and worked with drummers for the past 34 years and not known one of them to need to do it. For recording, I simply switch to another snare. If I was playing live I would find it very annoying and I'm sure everyone else in the session would also. That said, you did a great job.
 
Well, my bugging wasn't about re-tuning your existing snare, I just meant having a phat snare available when you needed it, and a tight snare when you needed it. I think it's easier to just have two snares rather than try to retune all the time. That's what I meant. I mean, can you really do Purple Rain with a James Brown tight snare drum? And that Eagle's de-tuned snare really wouldn't do for Are you gonna go my way, would it?

I just see you with your favorite Guru 5x14 snare, and also a Guru 7x14 snare too on another stand outside your hi-hat ;)
 
I have played with two snares on occasion, and I really like having the two sound options. I tended to put the 6.5X14 in front of me and the 5X14 or 6.5X13 to the left because the phat sound was my mainstay, but it was the same idea Bo is suggesting.

Honestly, the only reason I stopped was laziness.
 
Good job Mr. Simple !

The only thing is you loosened the first lug you started with a second time as you went around. That makes the first lug twice as loose as the others, right?

It is much better and quicker to swap out snare drums between songs.
Also the two (or three) snare drums can be perfectly tuned ahead of time.



.
 
Firchie anyone? Jokes............
 
Twin snares is my standard set-up, basically four piece with extra snare, the only problem I have encountered is that in a multi-band live setting sound engineers don't often have a second snare microphone. My second snare is generally tuned higher more open, main snare is tuned in the mid range with a slight bottom. I also use different batter heads ambassador on second snare, power centre on main this simply exaggerates the difference.

There is one other disadvantage to this setup, lots of sympathetic snare buzz from guitars etc.
 
MileHighDrummer said:
For recording, I simply switch to another snare.
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Bo Eder said:
I think it's easier to just have two snares rather than try to retune all the time.
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Thanks guys :) I did say in my OP that the intention was to have two snares available on stage. I just decided to experiment at practice, & didn't bring a separate snare with me.

IDDrummer said:
I have played with two snares on occasion, and I really like having the two sound options. I tended to put the 6.5X14 in front of me and the 5X14 or 6.5X13 to the left because the phat sound was my mainstay
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i'm using a 13" x 7" on this video. My intention is to have my 14" x 5" ebony stave tuned high as my main snare, & a new 13" x 7" tuned low/med as the "reserve" snare, but not set up to play at the same time. I'm planning on having the 13" set to one side on a stand so I can swap it out quickly between songs.

Hollywood Jim said:
Good job Mr. Simple !

The only thing is you loosened the first lug you started with a second time as you went around. That makes the first lug twice as loose as the others, right?
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Good eye ;) Yes, I'm just "down & dirty" tuning here, so I screwed up with that detuning. Notice how (without realising the earlier mistake) I picked up on that when I tuned back up again. Watch carefully from 07:20, you'll see me going back to that lug for a second turn. At least my ears seem to be working. Luckily, I'm very used to tuning multiple snares on the fly :)

sonnygrabber said:
Firchie anyone? Jokes............
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Please enlighten me :) I'm not getting the joke :(

Captain Bash said:
There is one other disadvantage to this setup, lots of sympathetic snare buzz from guitars etc.
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Yes, that is a disadvantage, hence me having the "reserve" snare to one side with wires off.


So guys, did the lower tunings sound better on the songs I featured in this video?
 
keep it simple said:
The intention is to use two snares on a gig.
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The way to go IMO, even a third snare, which can be swapped between songs.

Back in the days, I had a 14"x 8" main wood snare and a 14"x 5" secondary metal snare, I then changed the setup to a 14"x 8" main wood snare and a 14"x 3.5" secondary wood piccolo snare.

It allows for different sounds within a song or type of music, it is however still somehow "restricted" to only 2 types of tuning which might not be suitable for all the songs you play in cover band where different styles are being played.

Still 2 snares is better than just one.

keep it simple said:
So, what do you think - worth it or not? Is this something you do?
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It's worth it if you know what you're doing and you can be fast enough to carry the task.

It's not something I would consider myself and I've never done it (except in studio, but you have plenty of time to fine tune the snare).

keep it simple said:
Please enlighten me :) I'm not getting the joke :(
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http://www.firchie.com/how-its-works/

keep it simple said:
So guys, did the lower tunings sound better on the songs I featured in this video?
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I dig the Mott The Hopple song, it suits the song really well.

On the Whitesnake track it wasn't as good, difficult to say why or what, but something was missing in terms of sound, maybe a little too much on the low tuning, it sounded pretty much slappy, almost like if you only hear the head with no body sound, the mic capture and the room has a lot to do with it, I know, but compared the All The Young Dude, it didn't cut it.

Oh, Nice playing too Andy :)
 
Mad About Drums said:
http://www.firchie.com/how-its-works/



I dig the Mott The Hopple song, it suits the song really well.

On the Whitesnake track it wasn't as good, difficult to say why or what, but something was missing in terms of sound, maybe a little too much on the low tuning, it sounded pretty much slappy, almost like if you only hear the head with no body sound, the mic capture and the room has a lot to do with it, I know, but compared the All The Young Dude, it didn't cut it.

Oh, Nice playing too Andy :)
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Cheers Henri :)

The sound in that room is very boxy & thin. Terrible for drums, but it's what we have to work with. Small too :( I did have a piece of folded paper on the batter head (you can see me adjusting it from time to time). In terms of camera sound, that probably didn't help. All said, I think I got the low tuning a bit too low, especially in that space.

Ok, get the Firchie joke/suggestion. Not for me. maintaining equal differential tuning on batter & reso head doesn't make for a good sound through a range of tunings IMHO.
 
It's not like it took you that long to re-tune it... Didn't seem like a big deal. Maybe in a live setting, you'd want to just have a snare or two you can swap out quick. Gives the added benefit of using metal or wood snare depending on the song, too.
 
Or you can go the tea towel method and just cover the whole drum and then remove it.
 
Perhaps you can take Henri's advice even farther: remove three of your toms and replace them with SIX different snares! You can never have enough differentiation of backbeat!

Toms are over-rated and unnecessary ;) Remember, bass drum on 1 & 3 and snare drum on 2 & 4 - that's all you're really there for!
 
Sometimes I wish it were easy to change drum kits for different songs on stage.

Some songs lend themselves to smaller, higher tuning drums that sing.

Some songs just lend themselves to a few low thuddy toms.

But changing around gear would drive even the best soundman nuts.
 
Firchie Drums. Kind of a mix between a roto-tom and a snare drum. You can tune it on the fly.
www.firchie.com
 
Dr_Watso said:
It's not like it took you that long to re-tune it... Didn't seem like a big deal. Maybe in a live setting, you'd want to just have a snare or two you can swap out quick.
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Second snare is the way to go I think.

GRUNTERSDAD said:
Or you can go the tea towel method and just cover the whole drum and then remove it.
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A most valid suggestion, but tends to get lost when mic'd live :(

Bo Eder said:
Perhaps you can take Henri's advice even farther: remove three of your toms and replace them with SIX different snares! You can never have enough differentiation of backbeat!
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I knew I could rely on you for a completely nutty suggestion ;) ;) ;)

DrumEatDrum said:
Sometimes I wish it were easy to change drum kits for different songs on stage.
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Changing entire kits is perhaps a step too far. Regrettably, I'm not in the superstar league :)

sonnygrabber said:
Firchie Drums. Kind of a mix between a roto-tom and a snare drum. You can tune it on the fly.
www.firchie.com
Click to expand...

Bo Eder said:
Wow. Cool. I recall Pearl doing that with a Roto-tom top connected to a shell back in the late 70s. Didn't take off, but this Firchie seems a bit better made and reliable.
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Not for me. I don't like a fixed relationship between batter & reso head, as the tone just goes flat across many tunings, & frankly, to my ears, they don't sound that good. Certainly, not even close to the tones I'm used to.
 
Bringing multiple snare is absolutely the way to go. I try to do this whenever possible depending on the gig. Every once in a while I get a perplexed look from some guys when I switch out a snare for the first time with a band. But I don't care.

How many guitar players bring 3+ guitars with them on stage, and switch between them every song? Almost every guitar player I've played with, lol.. Why would it be weird if I switch out my snare? The pros do this all the time.
 
keep it simple said:
Bo has been bugging me relentlessly about using different snare tunings live. TBH, he has a point. It's what we all typically do when tracking multiple songs in the studio, so why not live?
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Guitar, bass and keyboard players are fortunate to be able to change patches and sounds & efx on the fly. There needs to be a certain amount of forgiveness where the drummer is concerned.

I do every gig - local and touring with Al - with only one snare. Although that particular snare may be different on some gigs, it's always tuned in a fairly average sounding, mid-tuning for its size.

There's only one instance where I'd like the snare to sound different for a song or two, and that's to have it be fat (think Eagles' "Heartache Tonight".) Of course, there's a very simple, cheap, instantaneous and supremely effective way to achieve that, and I've discussed it here before. Place a flat, cut-out head on the snare batter, and it drops the pitch, adds wetness and a gate, and makes any snare instantly sound low and fat. Even a high-tuned snare comes down to a more manageable and versatile range. I used to keep an overlay on tour and use it for one song ("Couch Potato" if you must know, a parody of Eminem's "Lose Yourself".)

Although I'v never done it, I know why having a 2nd snare for accents and effects may be handy. But as far as the need to change snare sounds (why not kick and tom, too?) as drummers, we get cut some merciful slack on that.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
There's only one instance where I'd like the snare to sound different for a song or two, and that's to have it be fat (think Eagles' "Heartache Tonight".) Of course, there's a very simple, cheap, instantaneous and supremely effective way to achieve that, and I've discussed it here before. Place a flat, cut-out head on the snare batter, and it drops the pitch, adds wetness and a gate, and makes any snare instantly sound low and fat. Even a high-tuned snare comes down to a more manageable and versatile range.
Bermuda
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Thanks for chiming in Jon :)

Yes, I know of, & have used your cut out head trick. It works a treat, but it also causes me another issue on some gigs. Even for larger gigs, I prefer to not close mic the snare, opting instead for running as much of the top end of the kit as possible through the overheads. It's not a necessity, it's a personal choice thing, as I feel it lends more of a dynamic landscape to the instrument. Anyhow, under such conditions, I find the head cutout trick cuts down significantly on volume & cut. Close mic'd, that's not an issue, but mic'd as I prefer, it is.

I'm thinking only two, possibly three songs in a show would benefit from a lower fat snare, so I don't want to go overboard. I guess my issue is somewhat compounded by the fact my default snare tuning is a little higher than most too :(

wsabol said:
Why would it be weird if I switch out my snare? The pros do this all the time.
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Not weird at all. You're only doing what all musicians should be doing, & that's providing the right sound for the song.
 
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